Tumbler

Hey everyone, I'm looking to buy a new car in the next few weeks and have been looking at the C230K, C280, Audi A4, Jetta, and BMW 3 Series.

Right now, the two Mercedes are at the top of my list, but I am especially concerned about reliability (not just with the MB's, but with all the aforementioned cars). I understand that all of these are no Honda/Toyota in terms of reliability, but the good thing is that they are also no Honda/Toyota in terms of luxury and driving excitement.

So my question to you guys is this:

What is your HONEST, UNBIASED opinion on the general reliability and quality of the 2000 C230K and 2000 C280?

Also, do you think that the 2000 model year for these cars is any more reliable than the other years for the 202 C class models?

I don't mind putting forth a little more effort than a Honda/Toyota requires, but I don't want to get in over my head with repairs and maintenance if you guys think that I will MOST LIKELY have a great deal of problems with the car. I take very good care of my cars and never abuse them in any way, but I am a college student and don't want to get in over my head.

Thanks in advance for the help

meanie

Well, here you go.
The C-class Mercedes is constantly rated as one of the best cars, in terms of value for the dollar.
Purchased my 2000 C 230 K a little over a year ago & all I can say is What a car !!
Been the VW route before, and was very disappointed with the number of problems.
Audi = nice car.
BMW = nice car, but I consider them fragile.
I am amazed at the fuel economy of my C 230 K when I'm cruising, and yet the power when I want to motor.
So far, all the parts I've purchased ( oilfilters, windshield wipers, etc. ) have consistently been about 2/3 as expensive as the VW parts were. Can't complain about that.
As you can tell, I highly recommend it, especially the 2000 model year.
This was the last year for the W 202 bodystyle & all little niggling problems were eliminated, since it was introduced in 1994.
Don't care much for the W 203 style ( 2001 & up, I think they are too "girly" looking.

Tumbler

Thank you so much for the advise !!! That was my assumption about the 2000 models - that hopefully many of the kinks and electrical annoyances had been worked out. Hopefully, this will still be the case when I decide to purchase.

Please keep the advise/opinions on these models coming. I really need to hear from you guys to make an informed purchase.

eddieo45

my 280 is a little rocket. I was a little disappointed with the 18 mpg (I'm over it now), so the C230K is intriguing....

230 Cedan

My 2000 C230 K is great. I think the sport model really makes a difference. It looks much better and doesn't feel like a old person's car. I've only had the car for a couple of months but have had no problems with it. I drive it fairly aggressively and still get very good gas mileage. The car is no sprinter off the line but there is more than enough power for regular driving without sacrificing the fun. I highly recommend the car.

ricerokets4life

by 1999+, most problems with the w202 were fixed. problems inherent in the 280 such as the faulty harmonic balancer and the weird transmisson were fixed and the new solutions were implemented.

Tumbler

Thanks for the advise everyone!!! Please keep it coming .

otis3

I`ve had my 99 C230 k since last August and no probs so far. It`s fairly easy to work on and not as complex as the bigger Benzes. Hopefully that means less stuff to go wrong because I plan on keeping it for a long time.

fast mayte

stay away from vw and audi. first of all, they beat unreliability against a ford, and second, they are freeking slow. v6 twin turbo 6spd and only 5.5 seconds???? wtf

unless u'd like being a good freind with your vw/audi service manager, then go with vw/audi. i traded in my 99 bug (after it took 10k worth of services alone in 2 years and still had probs) for my 95 c220. had to let it go. had my car for 8 months, very very happy with it.
www.myvwlemon.com



if u're into something quick and agile, go with BMW, but something more a lil more reliable and luxorius, benz....

blackmercedes

Advise is a verb, advice is a noun. You are seeking advice.

I will advise you now...

The W202 in the later 2000MY form is a very reliable car. The C280 has the well made M112 V-6, but ensure that any car you are considering has the updated harmonic balancer, as that is pretty much the only known problem with that engine. (Yes, the balancer was updated even past MY2000) The 722.6 automatic was well sorted out by MY2000. One word of caution: the shifter was updated to an electronic unit and can suffer spills on the console. Make sure the car shifts nicely out of park when you engage the driving gears.

Have a compete PPI done on any car you're thinking about. Look for:

1. Front lower ball joints are a common W202 suspension wear point, especially in cars driven on bad roads.
2. If the ACC/AC is not working properly (EC light is on) the Evaporator Temperature Sensor is probably at fault. Inexpensive. If that is not the fault, then $$ might be spent. Ensure AC/ACC is working.
3. Air Mass Meters fail occasionaly and cause the CE light to come on, and as time goes by, the car will run bad. This is not a unique-to-Mercedes fault, as many OBD-II cars are suffering this fault. If the car has a lit CE light, don't believe the line "it just needs the battery to be reset" or some other excuse. Codes will have to be read and a proper diagnosis performed.


As to the overall reliability of the W202, 1998 and later cars are the pick. Wiring harness problems are gone (1994-1995) and the ACC system is updated and improved with the variable pressure system. By 06/98 the 722.6 tranny was updated and is tough as nails, though early build 722.6's can usually be sorted out without great expense.

A 1999-2000 C280 with the latest harmonic balancer is a superb car that will log 200K-miles without major repairs. The overall structure is much more sound than the BMW or the Audi. Both of those makes suffer from complex designs that add to long term repair costs. The humble W202 is quite simple by modern car standards in that parts are relatively inexpensive, servicing is easy (I do all my own work with no special tools) and access is pretty good. The M111 equipped four banger cars are DIY dreams with lots of underhood space.

As to C230 cars, the M111 mill in aspro (97-98) and kompressor (99-00) forms is a great engine. It's tough as nails and with a stout double row timing chain, no-known-leaks, and bullet proof design, can last a loooong time with care.

The only potential weak spot in the 1999+ W202 M111 cars is the Eaton "kompressor: unit itself. So far, so good, but the unit's life span is unknown in that it is not produced in-house by MB. With reman prices coming down all the time, this is less of a concern as time goes by.

The real trick is to not buy the cheapest or the most expensive example. An abused car will cost way more in the long haul than what you save up front. Low mileage is not an indicator of care, and don't pay a nickel for it. MB cars do not like to sit and age rapidly when not in use. Find one with "appropriate" or even higher miles with a top-notch service history. You MUST find an owner that ignored the FSS intervals and changed the oil/filter more often. If you plan on keeping the car, this is vital.

My own 1998 C230 has had few warranty items, and not a hint of a major repair. The engine uses no oil and the car is tight and rattle free. I have had a set of lower front ball joints done and the tranny was replaced, but there's a story to that.

My tranny needed a pressure control spring ($3 part, about an hour's labour) but MB Canada decided to install an entire tranny unit, ETC, and torque converter. Why spend all that cashoola? No idea, but I'm never one to look a gift-horse in the mouth, so I took it. Warranty service with MB is suprb in my own experience.

I keep my car in top form with frequent servicing and it has rewarded me with 6.5 years of trouble free motoring and I expect many many years of similar performance...

DougandhisC280

I don't know if I can top that but here we go...

My car is a 1994 C280 with 117,000 miles on it so here's what you can expect in six years from now:

My Head gasket is leaking so I will need to get that replaced. Luckily you will have a better head gasket and not have to replace it so soon. My key tumbler broke due to the previous owners 3 pound key ring. (yep, it was a girl) My MAS has gone bad twice in two years. I blame the first time on K&N and the second time on me blasting it with a pressure washer. My check engine light is on due to the rear oxygen sensor. I had to replace the shocks only because I lowered the car. Other than that it has just been a visit to the shop for scheduled services. You can expect better reliability than I did because you have a newer, more thought out car. Mine was the test year. Good luck and welcome the the forum.

Audi Junkie

"a good freind with your vw/audi service manager"

Funny, I am good friends with a few Service Managers and the 1998 A4 Avant I currently own shows no warranty repairs done at all! At 75,000 miles, I have invested only in 2 control arms, the rest of them have grease fittings tapped into them. I dunno if you count worn brakes, but no reliability issues. My woman's 18 year-old Audi Coupe GT uses no oil, drives perfectly, all accesories work inc digital dash and has zero rust. Not even a tear in the seats at 190,000 miles. All that car ever got was a starter, struts and a rubber valve cover gasket. I don't think you should generalize from your experience, which is limited to a Beetle. I service cars as glitchy as a 1995 A6 and keep them on the road with everything working for about $1-$2 a day.

davis449

I have a 95 C 280 with 75K on it. Got it with 44K in 2002. It's a good running car. Only major repairs that have been done on it are: tranny replaced (under warranty) at 35K due to slipping problems, remote keyless caused starting problem and had to be removed (I replaced it with an aftermarket alram from Prestige), replaced shocks around 70K w/ Bilstein sports cause the OEM ones went, and the MAS went around 60K and I replaced it at 73K (under warranty). There's nothing wrong with it now and it drives like a BRAND NEW car. My sister has a 99 C 280 Sport and her's runs like a champ and has no maj0r problems that I know of. I drove it too and it's a badass car. I highly reccommend the C 280.

MichaelB43

Albeit a small sample, I have owned an MB, VW, Audi and BMW. I currently own a '99 C280 Sport and an '02 VW Passat V6 w/ 5-speed manual.

I bought the C280 used, with 66K on it. So far, the most expensive repair has been the airflow meter, which ran about $400. Other major maintenance items were fairly costly, like putting new tranny and rear-end fluids, which are synthetic. Other than the airflow meter, there haven't been any repairs, just maintenance. I have heard that Mercedes are actually less expensive to repair than BMW and Audi, but that was just anectodal evidence, nothing more.

The Passat has been flawless. It now has almost 40,000 miles on it, and I have not had a single problem. It is a nice car. It doesn't have as solid a feel as the Benz (but still feels quite solid), but for the money, it's the best value out there in my opinion. It will cruise all day long at 100 in relative quiet, handles reasonably well (stays fairly flat in corners), and is a comfortable car.

I also owned a '98.5 A4 with the 30v. There was a design flaw with the control arms which caused them to fail prematurely. Luckily, they were covered under warranty. Other than the control arm, the car didn't have any issues. It is basically the same car as the Passat, so no surprises there.

The BMW was a different story. I owned a '92 535i, which fell apart. I absolutely LOVED the car. It was the best mix of handling and comfort of any car I have owned, and had a phenomenal feel to it. However, it was costing me an arm and a leg. At around 65,000 miles, the thing started falling apart. For no apparent reason, the car overheated and warped the cylinder head. The new part alone was $2,000! Other things went, and it became impossible to leave the dealer without paying some multiple of $600. I sold it to a friend (after making all the repairs of course) and it now has about 160,000 miles that have been relatively trouble free. Go figure!

clsc510

i just bought a 1999 c280 sport!!!!

hehehe....exaclty 1 mo ago i did - black on black.

Mine is starmarked and with only $35K miles on it! Woohoo!!

BUT I HAVE ALREADY TAKE IT BACK TWICE TO GET STUFF FIXED!

lucky for me its starmarked! Nothing major, just minor.

1) Climate control display was fading and the characters didn't show -- so took it back and they replaced it brand new!

2) Left brake light came going on and off and the exterior light failure light kept coming up. They replaced the entire wiring system.

That was it. So far so good. But I WILL BE EXTENDING MY WARRANTY AGAIN, ONCE THIS RUNS OUT NXT YR!

Can i just say this .... I AM NEVER GOING TO BUY ANY OTHER CAR OTHER THAN MB FROM NOW ON!! THE SERVICE IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO GREAT!!!!!!


go with the benz - and make sure its starmarked!!

Mike_C250

buddie there is no winning. its a give and take relationship. MB will overally take the cup for me but know it comes with its issues which in my view are expensive to sort out. but then you are only paying the price for the best