Buellwinkle

Now you're making me drool. The car I originally wanted but got the Coupe because it was an overall better value because of the free car washes and maintenance. Look at it this way, for $350 I have the same HP as a WRX and more torque and no turbo lag and the prices are really close. Sure the WRX is quicker to 60 but only because of the AWD. What would I have now if I chose a WRX, a dirty WRX.

BTW: Renntech is an American tuner and they are far from stupid if they can sell a pulley for 5 times what someone else sells it for. Now that's yankee ingenuity and I admire them for that, just don't admire the product, not at 20hp when others can get double that regardless of price, euro sounding name or otherwise.

young

ah, some of you need to read the thread more carefully...

here are the list of mods that i got - ranked to my preference:

1. SL emergency brake pad - cheap, cheerful and easy to install
2. Renntech pulley - all the power that i want
3. 4350°K HIDs
4. Evolution mats... well, they're a mod in the US

next mod? i'm trying to get more info on the trunk shelf thingie...

Buellwinkle

Don't forget the ITG air filter.

turbovr6vw

Young congradulation I know you enjoying that mod to the fullest!!! just don't get pulled over!!! Know we have to have another GTG so we can all get a ride in it... I know that I am going to want it for my car... THANKs money that I did want to spend... I want to kept my mod cost on this car to rims, springs and wing... You almost sold me on the hids.....
another thing if you are happy with the cost of the mod and the performance you got out of it that is all that matters...

everyone is so worried about the warranties on the pullleys.. With any performance mod you ALWAYS run the risk of doing so kind of damage to the engine... Some people get lucky and nothing happens for the life of the car.. others don't.. Performance mod is not for the weak at heart... if you are doing perfomance to you car that means that you are going to drive the car harder than normal hense increasing the risk of breaking something.. and if you do the performance mod and baby the car when you drive it then it was a total waste of money... every performance mod I did on my VW I never worried about what the warranty was on it. I tried to improve things that might break because of the mod.. tranny, axles stuff like that.... with anything aftermarket you know every company is going to pass the buck... Mercedes will tell you one thing. Renntech or whoever it is will tell you something else...

I don't think people go with renntech (renntech is american company! so much for what dcx engineer knows)or kleeman because is euro sounding. I would go with renntech because they are a proven tuner... Right after i order my car first place i went to was renntech web page to see what performance mod they had!!!! they are one of the biggest mercedes benZ tuners out there... ASP was around for 15 years tuning benzs we would all be on their jock... buying their pulley... Buellwinkle did you ever think why renntech made their pulley with less horsepower gains??? maybe because they did not want their customers to have problems with their cars... or maybe they did not want to push the limits of the engine... did you every think about that.... they made a high quality product with good performance gains... I saw Youngs pulley before he put it on... a well manufacture piece...

You get what you Pay for!!!!

Young setup a another GTG soon... You can sell ticket to get rides in your car!!!!!

young

hey turbovr6vw,
yeah, another get together is definitely in the works. check your pm.

i want to sort of try to end this debate on the pulleys (is it possible???)

1st, it's not a religion. if you don't like a pulley, let it go and be happy.

2nd, get the pulley you want - renntech, kleemann, vaeth, asp, whatever. make your own if you want. i didn't want the ASP - that is my opinion. if you're comfortable w/ ASP, good for you.

3rd, i've explained why i got the renntech pulley before (i think at another forum, but not here). and i did not make a HUGE deal about the warranty. it is one (out of many) of the reasons why i leaned towards the renntech. if you don't care, then, it won't be a criterion in your decision making process... that's fine. i posted the warranty info b/c buellwinkle's post is incorrect (actually, buell, the only person i've heard mention that renntech covered ALL damage on the engine was from you).

4th, ah, the best bang for the buck argument. let me say that that is NOT my 1st priority in this case... is that ok? (see below)

5th, dcx, i was a little short w/ you b/c the idea that i go around spouting things like, "stupid americans" was so ridiculous. just so you know, i am an american. but, i apologize for insulting you as i don't really know you. and yes, to answer your second post, i do mostly want more midrange power to pass a few people, merge onto the highway a little faster, etc. and not to out race bmw 330ci's (although i am curious )

i kindly request that if you are indeed going to bash renntech, please start your own thread and i will happily stay out of it except for empirical clarifications. if you want me to answer any questions relating to my experience w/ the renntech pulley, you can ask and i will try to answer.

i am completely satisfied w/ the renntech pulley upgrade. i've been driving around and it's like driving another car! i spoke w/ the service technician at the dealership where i got it installed, and after he test drove the car, he was very impressed w/ the kit and what it did for the coupe.

here's the link to where i've outlined my reasoning http://www.csportcoupe.com/forums/sh...=&threadid=130 for those of you truly curious about why i got the renntech.

Buellwinkle

turbovr6vw, sorry if I put my faith in a company that has been making pulleys for 15 years instead of making wheels, floor mats and body kits, just a technical choice I guess and not an emotional marketing driven one.

young, the only thing the warranttee adds if they install it is that if the pulley breaks the labor is on them, whoopee. I've asked them in e-mails and on their forum that if the engine or supercharger breaks after the pulley install would they cover it and they won't answer that question. You are the one that stated on several posts that Renntech gives you a warranttee that nobody else has and you are right, a warranttee that reads more like a disclaimer. I'm not putting down Renntech, just saying that their warranttee and product are no better than anyone elses.

mdp c230k

Buellwinkle,
It was you in the first place that said 'anyone' could make the pulley. You even shopped the idea around to different places. I find your choice to be one of 'cheapskate' rather than 'technical'. I think you just enjoy being a killjoy know-it-all. So you got a pulley made by ASC to your specs, BIG DEAL, if you were the first or had some unique design it might make you an authority. You are not, and to belittle others is a joke. I'll bet the MB dealer in your area reads this forum and knows you have a pulley and your eternal quest for another lemon law case will go out the window! I just thank God I don't have to deal with you in any sort of bussiness transaction, you would suck all the joy out of it by just being you. Oh, yeah, have a nice day.

tommy

Geez, I came back from vacation for this? Where's the ring card girl - I'm losing track...

young

argh, you quoted me before i could extricate myself!

since you caught me, what is ASP's warranty?

Boo2

Then how come i've never heard of it? Have they been exclusive to Mercedes like the other "Notable" tuners in question?

tommy

Well, I think that ASP's warranty (buell, note spelling) is for the pulley only, on manufacturing defects. That's it (if my memory is still intact after my liquid weeeknd).

Buell can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the first MB application that they have done. But as he'll say (I think correctly), as long as you size it properly, it shouldn't be a big deal that they haven't done any before (except for the real-life testing that others have done, which is a big concession, IMHO).

I don't agree with his assessment of Renntech though - I can't imagine that anyone would say that the owner doesn't know what he's doing, engineering-wise, though they do fleece owners on the additional stuff the way that everyone else does.

Buellwinkle

mdp c230k, you are just showing your ignorance. The ASP pulley was the first billet lightweight pulley available for the C230 coupe in the world that I know about. Isn't that enough distinction so it wasn't a question of being cheap as much as buying the best available product at the time and not some cheap (but far from inexpensive) ring pressed on a factory pulley like Renntech that nets much less power, so yes, it was a technical decision. Now educate me, who besides ASP makes a pulley and not just outsources to another pulley company or takes a factory pulley and modifies it? Nobody I know. Why, because it costs a lot of money to have the right equipment, engineers and skills to do it and I don't think any of your designer tuners have the in-house capabilities in the same way as many designer suit companies farm out their manufacturing to the third world. So if you want your Hugo Boss pulley so you can wear their label, that's your choice, personally, I like to know who made my pulley. And of course you never heard of ASP, they are a manufacturer not a marketing company.

mdp c230k

Buell,
You were copying the idea of a solid pulley from Kleemann, who had the prototype done before you even started. Furthermore all you did was cry about how expensive it was going to be, after all you said it was so easy to do. Now you claim it is so technical? Your whole quest was to get it done cheaper. You even wanted to see a Kleemann pulley to copy! The reason the Kleemann pulley didn't come right out was that they spend time and money testing it out, did you or ASP? Now that is ignorant. MB does not make half the car it is outsourced, does that make the car not a MB? So what if others don't have a CNC machine and outsource to keep overhead down. If it meets spec who cares? I still think it was due to your lack of willingness to let a company make a fair profit, read 'cheapness'. After all the time you invested you could have bought the Kleemann pulley at the same total cost! At $20hr in 20 hours of research time, your $350 pulley cost $750. Now that is funny!

Buellwinkle

mdp c230k, I thanked Kleemann for testing the alloy pulley, through his testing was I able to trust such a device on my car. It's just that nobody had a pulley a month ago, just modified pulleys or rings, a mod that was not befitting any of my cars, specially my newest car. I never copied or asked anyone to copy anyones pulley. Look back at the previsous posts, other people that wanted to do this, not I. See for yourself, buy both and tell me what aspect is the same. ASP went through R&D and trial and error until a perfect pulley was made and the pulley on my car is not their first attempt. I think if they copied it, ASP would have had a pulley to market months earlier. It's too bad you only get to see the positve results from pulley testing and when I bring up the negatives from my testing I get flamed. For me, as long as 7 other companies have done extensive testing on C230 with larger pulleys then the only question is has ASP tested their pulley manufacturing process and have a long history, the answer is yes. Did I spend more of my time and money than if I bought a Kleemann pulley to begin with, that's a silly question because there was no Kleemann pulley for my car at that time. If there weren't people like me on the forum you wouldn't have the choices you have. Competition breeds better products at better prices. It's up to Renntech to catch up to Kleemann and ASP in performance and price. It's like buying the best computer from 2 years ago vs. a brand new top computer. The old computer was great for it's time, but alas, it's time is over, make room for the new. Will the old computer still work, sure, but if you were buying a new one why get something slow and with older technology.

Young, if you drove your car on a public street you voided your Renntech warranty, see ya at the track;

DCX Engineer

If I offended anyone, please accept my apology. It was a little silly. I was tired of reading posts bashing the ASP pulley and downplaying Buellwinkle's dedication and hard work.

I understand your reasoning for the Renntech pulley. Especially if your dealer supports their mods. I have a great relationship with my dealer, but would be installing it myself. I am fruggle and would rather spend the extra money on other mods or other toys. I commend you for getting the pulley upgrade as I am waiting to find out more about the ECU upgrades from Absolute and GIAC.

BTW: Thanks for the link to csportcoupe.com. I can spend even more time obsessed with my car.

mdp c230k

Buell,
What you have done is akin to shopping at the full service retail store milking the knowledgeble salesman for all the info then going to a discount store to buy the same thing. It is highly unethical. If you dont see that it is verification of my thoughts. People work hard and should be rewarded for their efforts, not used as a stepping stone. You used the whole pulley idea from someone elses design. Any logical person would gladly spend the money on a pulley that was designed and tested by someone who knows the car it goes into. Kleemann knows MB, ASP does not. I recall that your initial goal was to get a cheaper pulley. You stick with cheap and I'll take a proven MB tuner.

young

i disagree. btw, are you challenging me to a race or something?

Buellwinkle

This is silly, I had the idea to have a pulley made when I saw the Wetteraur kit about 10 months ago. And at $1,299 it was way too expensive so I started trying to figure out how to have it made so it would be less expensive and not to make a cheaper product. The first pictures I had were of the Vaeth pulley. Actually when I first spoke to Brandon it was before Klemann even had any pulley out, including the ring for the coupe. The world of high performance MB tuning would still go on even if all designer tuners went out of business tomorrow. Making/altering pulleys to make superchargers spin faster is not a new concept although to you it seems to be one that Renntech must have invented. On many cars like the supercharged Pontiacs with the Eaton M90, you can get pulleys from ASP in varying sizes for different requirements, why, because that's what they do. Do they make floor matts, body kits, keychains, NO! Buy a pulley and then talk.

I know what's bothering you, you don't have one. Would you like an ASP sticker?

BTW, yes I shop around for big ticket items and sometimes the place or item I see first is not the one I buy, including cars, cameras, pulleys and TVs. I'm sure you are too smart for that and probably go to one car dealer or store and buy regardless of what another dealer/store may have or price they charge. Your ethics are beyond reproach, how can I compete with that.

Buellwinkle

No, no, I'm just saying that the Renntech mods you did can only be used on a racetrack or off road per their warranty. Isn't that why you did it? Since it's not likely you can do much off roading with a coupe I figured you would be at the race track and I would see you at one of them some day. I've raced my coupe and lost to much faster cars than yours including a modified Ford Lightning (no Renntech mods). Since it's for racing only, have you asked Renntech what their 1/4 mile times are with your mod, it would seem important to know since that's their intended purpose.

young

again, i disagree.

Buellwinkle

Have you not seen this point in Renntech's warranty? Or the point about not being responsible if the pulley voids the factory warranty? Ouch!

young

no and no.

i keep re-reading the renntech warranty i posted above, and do not see that passage. am i missing it?

Buellwinkle

This is their unedited complete policy as they sent to me a few days ago. Since the mod can only be used for racing and off road, any other use may be considered abuse and void their warranty and MB warranty.

Prices: Effective July 10 2002 and are subject to change without notice due to changes in production costs and changes in international exchange rates. Prices do not include installation.

Installation: Installation is available by our trained technicians. Prices are available upon request.

Shipping and Handling: All prepaid items will be given priority handling and shipped per customer specification whenever possible. Only cash or cashier’s checks will be accepted for C.O.D. orders unless other arrangements have been made in advance. Florida State sales tax will be charged to Florida residents and businesses when applicable. Claims of shortages and defects should be made to RENNtech within 24 hours of receipt of the merchandise. Damaged shipment claims must be made directly to the shipping carrier and are not the responsibility of RENNtech.

Core Fees: Core fees may apply to some items, will be charged, and are refundable upon core return.

Limited Warranty: RENNtech’s objective is to enhance the enthusiast’s driving experience by designing and
manufacturing the best performance and highest quality automotive products possible. RENNtech warrants that all RENNtech products are free from defects in material and workmanship.

A. FOR VECHICLES NOT COVERED BY THE ORIGINAL VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS NEW CAR WARRANTY.
This warranty extends to the original owner only and is not transferable. The warranty begins on the date of purchase (invoice) and ends twenty four (24) months from this date for parts twenty four (24) months from this date for engine conversions. Due to the variety of modifications and changes made to Mercedes-Benz cars and/or engines that may affect the performance or durability of related components, RENNtech’s obligation under this warranty extends only to the repair or replacement parts manufactured or sold by RENNtech and not for painting and labor. To file a warranty claim, parts must be returned with proof of purchase, the customer name and address, type of car, year, engine number, odometer reading, and VIN number, the part covered under warranty with installation and removal date, and the date the part was delivered. No claims will be considered without valid proof of purchase and all of this information and the original RENNtech part. Return freight charges must be prepaid. Collect charged returns will not be accepted. All parts replaced under warranty become the property of RENNtech.

B. FOR VECHICLES COVERED BY THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS NEW CAR WARRANTY.
This warranty extends to the original owner and is transferable. The warranty begins on the date of part purchase. If the vehicle is currently covered by the original vehicle manufacturer’s new car warranty, RENNtech products are warranted for twenty four (24) months or for the remaining term of the original manufacturers’ warranty, whichever is longer. RENNtech will pay for the replacement part (new or remanufactured) and labor at the official Mercedes Benz standard warranty labor rate. Labor will only be covered under this warranty, if the original installation was performed at a RENNtech authorized facility.

To obtain service under this warranty, the vehicle must be brought, upon discovery of a defect in material and workmanship, the workshop of any RENNtech authorized dealer, during normal business hours.

EXCLUSIONS FOR BOTH WARRANTYS (A and B)
Parts which show evidence of misapplication, abuse, improper maintenance, alterations from their original configuration, or failure to follow installation instructions are expressly not covered by this warranty. RENNtech also reserves the right to make changes to products, or specifications at any time without obligation to modify earlier parts. No person, company, or other organization is authorized to assume for RENNtech any warranty responsibility or make binding judgments regarding warranties of any parts which from time to time may become subject of a warranty claim.

RENNtech’s limited product warranty specifically excludes:
Return shipping charges, towing charges and rental car , damage to a component or assembly due to installation of replacement parts with specifications that differ in any material respect from the original vehicle manufacturer’s or RENNtech parts, damage resulting from the unauthorized modification of a RENNtech part. damage resulting from the use of other manufacturers products in conjunction with RENNtech product or system, damage to clutch due to power shifting or abuse, maintenance services and parts when replaced during maintenance such as spark plugs, lubricants, fluids, engine tune-up parts, replacement of filters, coolant and refrigerant, mechanical adjustments or repairs which result from normal wear and tear, drive belts, light bulbs, damage due to the failure to perform maintenance services at the specified intervals or in accordance with the instructions in the owners manual from the original vehicle manufacturer or RENNtech product instructions, damage attributed to negligence, improper installation, improper treatment contrary to the instructions in the owners manual from the original vehicle manufacturer or RENNtech product instructions, damage resulting from improper or contaminated fuel, damage to a RENNtech component as a result of a collision or improper collision repairs, any vehicle operated in a competitive event, custom designed competition parts, incidental and /or consequential damages, including loss of time, inconvenience or loss of the use of the vehicle.



Returns: Returns are subject to a 15% re-stocking fee and must be shipped pre-paid. Only new resale items will be considered for return. All returns must have prior authorization of RENNtech. No returns after 30 days of purchase.

DOT-EPA: Selected modifications and performance items are legal for off-road or racing applications only. RENNtech cannot assume liability for the legality of modifications that would void the factory warranty or specifications as required by the DOT-EPA or any other regulating agencies.

Terms: For modifications 50% down with order, 25% mid stream/progress payment, balance prior to delivery. Retails sales of parts pre-paid. Wholesale terms 30 days net contingent upon credit approval. Past due invoices are subject to interest. In the event an account is placed with third parties for collection purposes, client is responsible and agrees to pay for all costs of collection including but not limited to reasonable attorney’s fees.

young

can you now find the dot-epa regulations that the pulley will void? thanks.

renncpe

Young you are not missing anything. If you have any questions about any problems I can handle them for you. Bull still can't answer why the pulleys are with in fractions on an inch is size why there is such a diffrence in output. And no a lighter pulley does not make more HP. Kleemans is lighter than Bulls with out a corresponding diffrence to HP when compaired to the renntech pulley and it's weight. Bulls car started out with more HP than a stock car???? Any way. Enjoy you car Young.

Randy