mdp c230k

CARB does not allow any engine mod that has not been tested and/or certified to pass emissions for street use. That means ANY mod is illegal for street use in California unless it has their ok on it.

Buell,
When I do get my pulley it will be from Kleemann, a name I can trust. His is lighter than yours and he has years of MB experience that make it worth it. I find your new found 'expertise' no match for the real thing.
Less expensive = cheaper

DCX Engineer

I thought Kleemann's alloy pulley was the same diameter as their steel ring, but was good for another 8-10 hp due to less rotating mass on the crank.

My pulley will be coming from ASP. Thanks Buellwinkle.

Buellwinkle

The off-road/racing only comment in their warranty is there to avoid having to pay a warranty claim where MB refuses to fix a problem under warranty. This is SOP for many aftermarket tuning parts because by federal law, if a shop installs something that a parts maker claims to have completed the EPA process of self-certifying its parts, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty even if the certified part has failed and is directly responsible for the warranty claim. In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the part manufacturer, but the new vehicle warranty is not void under the law. "If the failure to honor a claim involves the new-vehicle warranty, and it appears that the manufacturer is improperly denying a claim, the incident should be reported to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC is responsible for monitoring compliance with the warranty law; the agency's telephone number is 202/326-3128."

So one question to ask Renntech is have they complied with EPA regulations and performed these test or is the pulley for off-road or racing only? This would be proof that they actually did test their pulley in real testing, not just driving around.

Has other pulley companies complied, not that I know of but it's possible. If they have then you are covered under the EPA clean air act and MB can not void your warranty, if they haven't and they say off-road use only then you are on your own. Harley has a different company called Screaming Eagle for this very purpose. Put on a Screaming Eagle part and they don't have to honor the warranty. Most dealers now refuse to put these parts on even though they sell them.

Also, remember that these are Federal laws. If your state uses guidelines similar to the California Air Resource Board then the actual part has to be tested and an OE number assigned. You can fail smog testing with just a visual inspection without this number. Is it likely that they'll notice a complete solid pulley during a smog test, no, is it possible that they may notice a pressed on or scewed on ring with a tuners name in bright white letters, maybe. Worst case is you can get a California red sticker registration for non-comforming off highway vehicles and use it for racing only.

Brandon @ Kleemann

A lighter pulley does not MAKE more HP- it just wastes less HP spinning it up. And -yes- there is a difference in power produced.

Its the same idea as throwing a 5lbs ball compared to a 10lbs ball- given your arm has the same strength- which ball can you accelerate to X speed quicker?

Buellwinkle

Kleemann, what was amazing to me is the colder sparkplugs you provide with your kit for older SLK230 and C230Ks make such a huge difference. I saw 12 whp on the dyno. Is the reason you don't provide them on the Coupe is that they don't exist (different plug size) or that the effects would not be the same?

Brandon @ Kleemann

The plugs found in the C Coupe are not readily available in a colder heat range.

They are, however, the same heat range we provide in the "older" boost systems.

linh

Buellwinkle,

That because the engine was 'detonation" and so with colder plugs, it show a gain but if the engine was not 'detonation" then the colder plugs properly wouldn't gain any hp from it. Is this right, Kleemann?

Buellwinkle

Cooler plugs draws heat from the combustion chamber and your lean condition creates the heat so if all was well the cooler plugs would allow you to run with a leaner mixture or higher compression before detonating. I used colder plugs on my Harley because I went to high compression pistons on an over bore project and it was detonating so I used colder plugs from Honda to keep it in check. The guy that bought my bike figured the Honda plugs weren't Harley enought so he switched back and called me about the pinging, needless to say he's got Honda plugs again.

The MB dealer by me has a dyno and they'll set the ECU settings for more fuel. I just have to call them and make the appointment with their dyno department. I can have them try stage 2 and stage 3 and see what results I get. I told them about the pulley and their cool with it.

sdcaclint

do any of the pulley manufactures have CARB (california air resources board) certification? It is required on a pollution controlled vehichle manufactured after 1965 that operates in california.

i have read about the extensive testing done on the higher priced pulley systems. so i assume they must also be charging to recoup the costs involved in complying with california's strict smog laws. i would expect nothing less from the "leading mb performance" companies.

randy or brandon are your products CARB legal?

renncpe

Bull’s math does not add up if you take his results hp vs. the corresponding weight difference between the Ring pulley’s dyno and his copy cat pulley (fuzzy physics) Bull what is the impact weight vs torque and how do you explain the fact that your results don’t give with your own claims?

Randy

renncpe

“Another Bullism” you to suggest that the only legitimate testing for tuners and there mods is to do an EPA study? You had a knock off pulley made. And then? You attack other people for choosing there mods as they see fit. You are not a tuner you just play one on the message boards. Give it a break let other people enjoy there cars and there Mercedes experience with out your badgering, and your misrepresentations.

Randy

Buellwinkle

Randy, what you are saying is that the Renntech pulley has not been EPA certified and is for off road/racing use only. Does that mean that if you drive it on road you're a federal criminal (LOL). I use my car with ASP pulley only on a closed circuit race course and then I take my pulley off for street driving (LOL).

I'm not a tuner, I'm a proud hot rodder for many years. Hot rodders are like tuners but without the stench of caviar on their breath

renncpe

You did not answer any of the questions. Are you waiting for some body else to answer them for you??? Maybe you can call for tech support, oh that’s you .. so I guess you will not come up with an answer right.

So is that BS on your breath???

Randy

mdp c230k

Amen

Buellwinkle

What questions? I answered some off line using e-mail and PM. I can't give away all my secrets

To think that you believe the steel appendage on a factory pulley can compete in power to a pulley like Kleemann's or ASP's. I thought you are a tuner, one that knows all, the master of the MB universe. Any hot rodder knows that if you lighten the flywheel & crank pulley you will get more HP or do the laws of physics evade Renntech?

BTW, do you work for Renntech? I thought you work at an MB dealer in Florida.

renncpe

More wasted posts you have not answered the questions from the earlier post. You numbers do not add up I just asked in English that is your native tongue right! Why your number do not match the progression of weight vs the other Kleeman dyno .and what are the effects of weight on torque. Sorry if you don’t understand, this is a simple question and surly you know the answers right?

Randy

young

buell, leave out stuff like this. when did renncpe say this? if it is in your head, then it is in your head and no one else's.

i notice that you like to use extreme exaggerations to make your points but that is why i tend to disregard a lot of your spoutings. and that is a disservice to everyone.

TimmyC230boy

fly your flags high. this thread has turned into a complete thread about

Buellwinkle

Very funny Timmy. Did you get a pulley done on your car yet? Or are you waiting to see the results of the pulley wars? I know I gave young a hard time about the pulley but only because he had a post comparing the different pulleys and said that Renntech warranty set's itself apart from all other pulleys and I just wanted to set the record straight. All warrannties that I know of cover the pulley kit only and most have a disclaimer for off road use only (and if they don't they should have a CARB OE number and EPA compliance statement). That doesn't mean that some tuners will or won't stand behind their products even if the warranty says otherwise, only time will tell. If a tuner or dealer tells you different than what the warranty says then have them put it in writing.

young

so buell, you still believe that the renntech warranty is "no better" than ASP's?

to clarify, i repeat, buell, that you are the only person that said renntech covered the engine. renntech nor i have ever said that.

your quote: "The Kleemann pulley is not out yet so if you want something that's been out for while get the Renntech. They provide a warranttee that their pulley won't damage your engine, nobody else that I know does this. No offense but you sound name brand aware and Renntech is the famous U.S. MB tuner that most people know." it was only upon my questioning of that did you backtrack.

Buellwinkle

That was based on statements you said and I had no reason to disagree with you until I saw the warranty for myself. In my mind I was saying who in their right mind would pay $1,694 for a pulley if not for the warranty that Young speaks so highly of. So if the warranty is better than anyone elses please share with us why, what is covered by Renntech that is not covered by any other company selling a pulley kit like Kleemann for example?

Based on what I've read on the Renntech warranty, you are not covered if you abuse the car yet you can only race it or drive it off road, seems like a contradiction used by suits to avoid having to pay claims or answer to the feds. So I would believe it if you tell me that they have never paid out a warranty claim. I just distrust companies with legal mumbo jumbo that's contradictory and worded in a confusing matter that makes it virtually useless. I'm just saying that if they told you something else like it's OK to drive it on public roads then you should get that in writing. It may come in handy someday and keep the FTC phone number handy.

Dr. Killjoy

young

um, no. your post dated 6/13 stated as above. my post, dated 6/15 (in another thread) questioning you about the "everything" warranty... "you previously said that renntech has a warranty against damage to the engine - not just the parts. i can't find that reference."

your reply, also dated 6/15, "I've heard about the warranttee about the Renntech pulley but I've never seen it. Can you call them and ask exactly what the warrantte covers so it put's this issue to bed."

after i contacted renntech, my post dated 6/17, "my interpretation is for me, 3.5 years of warrantee. and they will pay for labor of installation of the new pulley."

please don't say that your misunderstanding is based upon my statements when that isn't true. i do not know where you got that idea but it isn't from me.

your quote is from thread previously linked. the second thread is https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=10342

Buellwinkle

OK, you want to look back, on 6/29 you said that an advantage of the Renntech pulley is the warranty. Please, tell us the advantage. Then you said no warranty by ASP, please, tell us who told you that. Then no mention of Kleeman's warranty, why, is it no good.

Like I said before, all the pulley warranties are bogus because if a pulley cracked, fell apart, warped or otherwise created a valid warranty condition there is no way that I would put another one back on my car, regardless of who made or installed it. I would certainly accept my money back but that's not written into the warranty, is it.

Boo2

This $h!ts gone too far. Part of being an enthusiast is not only lovin adding aftermarket parts, but also respecting the tuners that are known for that brand. A true Bimmer fan can identify Dinan, Racing Dynamics, AC Schnitzer, etc. In the same respects, Benzo fans move toward Brabus, Kleemann, AMG, Renntech, Carlsson, etc. If the game was about buying an equivalent or better performing product for less money, then you would be driving a Toyota. What gets me is that Young should not feel bad about his purchase. He spent his hard earned money on a reputable product from a well known Mercedes tuner which, under conversation, would impress more people than ASP would.

young

yes, the renntech warranty is a plus for me. (one of a few)

renntech - upto 4 years for pulley and labor. labor at an approved Mercedes dealership. Renntech, very reputable company that i believe will make a good faith effort to remedy a problem should it arise.

kleemann is fine but shorter. 1 year parts and labor at an approved kleemann shop. Kleemann, very reputable company that i believe will make a good faith effort to remedy a problem should it arise.

asp... well, 1 year pulley free from defects. um, no reputation to speak of to me - good or bad. are they going to care if your car breaks down?

you see no difference in the warranties from ASP w/ the Kleemann or Renntech? if you say yes, then, again, there is nothing more to be said.

i would be happy w/ either the kleemann or the renntech - both make great products - tested and proven. but i am not comfortable w/ the ASP pulley in my car. i'm sure it is fine in yours.