patrick_y

Really? Wow, you should get me in touch with them. I'd love to buy an F430 Spider at sticker.

I used to be neighbored with a guy who owned a Porsche/Mercedes/BMW dealership. He sold the BMW dealership first to Autonation, then he recently got rid of the Porsche/Mercedes to Fletcher Jones.

Just had a problem with this new management on Saturday, they wouldn't wash my friend's Lotus Elise even though I called them in advance to ask if they'd take it and then once I got there, they wouldn't. The sales manager gave me a very rude tone of voice and a hard time and made me promise them that I had to buy my next car from them or else they wouldn't wash the car. After a bit of negotiating, I promised that I would and then they said that they wouldn't wash it because they said I was rude to the car wash greeter. I've known this car wash greeter since she started working for the dealership back when my former neighbor owned the dealership and thus I quickly ran out to apologize to her. She didn't know what I was talking about.

In the end, the Lotus wasn't washed. I was very embarassed for having dragged out my friend all the way to the dealership to get his car washed and in the end it wasn't washed. Very embarassed, I was shamed to death. Mortified almost.

Just talked to the general manager today. He wasn't very concerned and pointed out how I wronged the dealership?! Very unhappy about that.

MHPHOCKEY

PM me your information (Name and Phone) and Ill make a call for you. Thats pretty insane they wouldnt wash a car. All the MBZ dealers wash mine no questions asked, even if I just drive up and ask for it.

patrick_y

Well, they have a sign outside that says that they will only wash Mercedes and Porsche vehicles or any vehicle that they have sold pre-owned that wasn't a Mercedes or Porsche.

My friend had driven his brand new Lotus Elise all the way from Los Angeles (in that tiny car too), the front end was plastered with bugs.

Overall, I'm very unhappy with that dealership. I've lodged a formal complaint with them through MBUSA, although I don't think that will work. I even gave Fletcher Jones Jr. a call and left him a message. He didn't call me back.

MHPHOCKEY

Of course. He doesnt give a dam. Next time go to Keyes in Van Nuys. They are the best.

mick1

With my skills, I probably can't outshift an automatic but I think I would drive smoother at higher speeds. My dad has a 2001 C320 with automatic transmission and one time, I floored the pedal to pass a slow moving vehicle and his car downshifted quite abruptly before picking up the speed. I could feel the automatic transmission changing gears more so than when I drive my car with the manual transmission. This only applies to rapid acceleration. In normal driving, the automatic transmission is quite smooth.

patrick_y

Well, I need a local dealership for servicing. My family and I have established our connection with this dealership for years.

Van Nuys is a bit far away. Especially for servicing.

MHPHOCKEY

I would have gotten a stick, but 35 miles a day in dead stopped traffic was a turn off. Yea, well I guess make buddy buddy with the service manager. It helps.

patrick_y

The one thing I enjoy about Mercedes Benz vehicles is that I call all of the 5 gears (7 gear models don't really apply to this) all drive gears. There is no overdrive gear. I get enough acceleration in all 5 gears without downshifting. Thus in 5th gear, on a highway, if I were to wish to pass someone, 95% of the time, I don't need to downshift.

On the E320 we have in the family, it hardly downshifts at all!

MHPHOCKEY

Our SL 500 only downshifts when it wants to kill something...at 70/80 its got the juice...

patrick_y

We've had an 02 SL500 in the family at one time. Very quick car. In the acceleration phase, i don't think I ever got it past the 2500 RPM mark. The E320, once in a while when I'm more liberal, I can get it to the 3000 RPM mark. In my personal humble C230, I have to be careful and extremely conservative in order to keep it in the 2000 RPM range.

Ironically, once when I was driving the C230 a bit more aggressively, just a tad bit more (normally I set the cruse control at 62 mph and try to stay under 2500 RPMs during take off) and drove slightly faster on the freeway, it got only 23.8 mpg calculated at the fill up. A few days later, filled up the E320, that one got 24.8 mpg and that's usually driven somewhat more aggressively. Ironic.

MHPHOCKEY

Maybe it was momentum? Better save gas if you are going to be making that purchase!!!

patrick_y

The cars rarely need to downshift when they're in their proper torque range. At 70-80 RPMs, the SL 500 would be in the 2500-2800 RPM range (approx, I don't remember exactly) and that's a perfect torquey range. Loved that car. But then the new model came out, a friend was willing to give my family a good price (he didn't care about the depreciation on it once the new model came out) and we got rid of it to save us on the depreciation.

Glad we got the 02 E320 though instead of the 03. The 03 had a few small electrical problems. Although, the 02 E320 wasn't that great either actually... But personally, I prefer the 02 E320 for reasons I'm not quite sure of. It's the last "tank" Mercedes in the family. We have nothing else that has sheet metal quite as thick. I sometimes knock my knuckles on the E and then knock them on my C, totally different sound.

MHPHOCKEY

Well the SL is a 2003 and there havent been any issues. I know what you are talking about though. We had a 1995 S class before the 2000 S and now the 2006 S and that was a cruise ship. The 06 S is pretty solid though.

BTW THIS IS POST 200!!!!

patrick_y

The 06 isn't the new one yet though right? The new one is the 07?

I think the SLs are less prone to issues, Mercedes makes them a bit better. The 2003 E Class was just confounding and riddled with electrical problems from what I've heard.

I'd love to have an S Class in the family. Unfortunately, personally, I am not a big fan of driving long wheel base cars. Getting an S350 is nice but I'm concerned about the power. Another family member is already complaining about the power in the E320, she wants to go back to a 500 series. Personally, the E320 has more power than I know how to handle.

The S Classes these days are only available in the long wheel base version except for the S350 which is only available in the short wheel base version. While the long wheelbase version isn't much more difficult to drive, we really have no use for it.

Congratulations on your 200th post.

vraa

2003 R230 had it's share of issues too.

MHPHOCKEY

I meant 2007. It is amazing. I have heard the horror of the 2003 E, my uncle had one. If the E 320 has to much power the F430 is going to kill you!!!! I didnt think that they brought the short one to the US? Maybe I was wrong.

Mike

patrick_y

R230 or R350?

I'm personally not that big of a fan of the R Class. Sorry.

vraa

R230.
I still refuse to acknolwedge the W251

patrick_y

The 2007 has a bit of weird styling. But then again, that was what I was saying when the 2000 model came out. I'll get used to it.

I was cursing when the new BMW 7 series came out, now I love it. People change.

As a very conservative person (I'm more reactionary than Republican, actually I'm not that bad) I personally preferred the W140 S Class (1992-1999).

The F430... I've driven the Maserati Coupe, twice, a 2005 and a 2004. That was perfectly manageable. The trick is to leave it in auto and only use the paddle shifters when you want to override the automatic gear shifting. The RPM range is so broad that you get the power, in a very controlled fashion. Also, you'd imagine that the throttle is touchy on a Maserati, but if you leave it in normal mode (not sport mode), it's quite civilized. I've never driven a Ferrari (I don't believe I need to), but I assume that it's somewhat similar to the Maserati.

The 2005-2006 S350 that the brought into the US was a short wheelbase version. I was seriously considering to acquire that car and have its S350 badge taken off (to avoid laughter from my S500 friends). But then I decided without test driving it that it would be pointless. It'd be slower than an E320 and it would create more laughter. Besides, I really didn't need one. My current car has only gotten 3000 miles in the past 9 months. Mainly because I'm away from the home so often. This is with help from the housekeeper putting miles on it too.

MHPHOCKEY

I think the pre-facelift 7 was better than the new one, but the 07 S is amazing. The interior is flawless. The Ferraris are much more agressive and have much more power than the Maseratis. It is a good thing you didn't get the S350. It was a terrible idea to bring them here by MBUSA.

Im done for the night. Let me know what happens tomorrow.

Mike

patrick_y

I refuse to acknowledge the R at all.

patrick_y

I've had several friends who have owned the 740i and 740iL. Although it's supposed to be a solid car, one person had a valve broken at 55k miles and another had the car completely stop altogether at a traffic light.

I only have a few friends who own Ferraris, they're still fairly rare. It might be wise for me to ask for a demonstration prior to acquiring one.

The S350 wasn't that desirable to begin with. While it was practical and justifiable to own one, it wasn't necessary since we didn't need another E320 equivalent. I think the trunk on the S350 was also smaller.

dozier08

It seems we may has strayed from the C230 vs. IS250 comparison...ahh, screw it. I think I have made up my mind...

e1000

the G35 and IS250/350 steering wheels make me want to

dozier08

After too much consideration between the Mercedes Benz C230 and Lexus IS250, I have made a decision. I considered at least the following subjective factors and many more:

Category (Winner) - Reason
Comfort (Draw) – I had Mercedes in the lead, but those Lexus seats were much better than I would of imagined. Great in both cars.

Drive/Ride (Draw) – Personal preference rules this category. Both good rides, sporty, seemed agile on the test drive. I didn’t get as good of a test drive on the Lexus as on the MB since it was mostly highway.

Engineering (Mercedes) – I prefer German engineering to Japanese. I went to an engineering school and it just makes more sense to me. I like the approach to European design more than I do Asian.

Exterior (Mercedes) – The body style looks classier. New body style in 07 doesn’t mean better body style. See BMW 3 series. I don’t like a car with a big butt; the IS250 trunk is too high for me.

Future Appeal (Lexus) – New body style in the IS250 vs. outgoing body style in the C230.

Interior (Mercedes) – Both are very nice, but the Lexus interior looks the same as in the IS as the old people cars they make. I’m young…I like the flair, the brushed aluminum look. Don’t like wood paneling in a car.

iPod (Mercedes) – This is a big deal for me so it gets its own category. MB has a fully integrated display. Ahead of the curve on something electronic, all cars will need to have this in at least two years.

MPG (Lexus) – Both are good, Lexus is better, and by I am guessing 2 mpg on normal driving conditions? Mileage is much better than my Jeep Wrangler (16 mpg).

Options (Lexus) – You have to upgrade a MB to get standard features on a Lexus.

Price (Mercedes) – My dad is in the business and has a connection at MB, I will get a great deal. Otherwise it would be a Draw.

Reliability (Lexus) – You can run a Lexus in to the ground. You can with a Benz but to do so, it will take you a bit longer because you were held up at the shop.

Safety (Mercedes) – Both cars are as safe as you want in a wreck, I consider that a Draw. However I also factor how safe I can be. Visibility of the road is key to my driving style. I felt a bit cramped in the IS. Personal preference. I know the Lexus has mirrors, but 12 years of driving and I barely use them.

Status (Mercedes) – Mercedes has been losing ground to Lexus over the last 5 years, but Mercedes is the next level. Even in the baby version.

Toys (Lexus) – Hands down. Lexus has awesome electrical toys, ventilated seats, keyless, etc. These are fantastic.


The Overall Winner is Mercedes. I will get a C230. The Lexus gave it a serious run, but when I look at a car two years from now, still making payments, cleaning those wheels for the 200th time, I want to be able look up it and smile. Get in it and smile. The body style of the C class in my mind is beautiful and a look that many manufactures are sadly getting away from.

Both cars are too comparable to compare based on measurable features, its all about feel and preference. I don’t like the blind spot in the Lexus and I felt cramped by the high sides and I am pretty tall.

I like the Lexus IS250, but I love the C230.

Thank you to everyone for all the good input. You made my choice very difficult!