Drop-a-Daimler

I am about ready to pull the trigger on a tuned ECU for my 2006 3.5L. Right now all it has is a pair of K&N filters. I may go headers and exhaust but that's for later. Right now I am Jonesing for a tuned ECU by mail. I am leaning towards the Powerchip ECU. Seems like the one of the most bang for the buck (if the vendors are to be believed) and a pretty solid company. Here's what else I am have been considering out there. SuperSprint doesn't list an ECU for my car but I like their headers.

Stock: 268 HP, 258 TQ

MKB: 306 HP, 278 TQ, $3000
Powerchips: 284 HP, 273 TQ, $680
JLevi: 286 HP, 282 TQ, $700
Carlsson: 295 HP, 278 TQ, $???
Renntech: 278 HP, 270 TQ, $1300

Anyone had a good or bad experience with one of these, or a different one that can be bought without rolling into some shop, that they want to share?

Blake P

I've heard great things about the SpeedInnovation tuning, which is what JLeviSW sells.

rlee02135

go for Jlevi/SI ECU.

AndySays

Its SI all the way
SI FTMFW!!

Drop-a-Daimler

I am going to give the JLevi/SI ECU a much closer look. I actually read their literature wrong too. With their 93 octane tune (which is what I run here) it is a bit higher:

Stock: 268 HP, 258 TQ
JLevi: 289 HP, 287 TQ, $700

That and some headers might make my magic 300/300 numbers.

MJ50

andy should know best since he got SI ECU on C350...
i also have SI ECU and made a world of difference... it feels like C250...

yeuchau

wasn't there a group buy for SI before??

neilsam

where can we get the JLevi/SI ecu?

AndySays

AndySays

http://jlevistreetwerks.com/store/Me...c101a5419fdd16

MJ50

PM the sponsor...

yeuchau

check group buy, and pm the sponsor

StealthAuto

I don't mean to be a party pooper but you may want to read into Speed Innovation a little further.

Here's one thing for reference that was taken from the news section of Powerchip's website:


speedinnovation and eurorev are not authorised to sell Powerchip products

1 Jul, 2005
Software for Mercedes Benz-

PIRACY WARNING

Powerchip's software is protected by the copyright and unfair competition
laws of the United States. Piratical copies of Powerchip's copyrighted software are being distributed by one or more unauthorized sellers. Speedinnovation and eurorev are not an authorized licensee, dealer or distributor of Powerchip's software.

Anyone who purchases these piratical copies of Powerchip's software is subject to court action where the court may order that the pirated software be impounded, delivered up and destroyed, and the court may award civil remedies, attorney's fees and costs, among other remedies authorized by law.

MJ50

a link would be more convincing than a plain text, don't u think?
i wonder what'd be like between iforged and hre sponsors...
bottom line is that i'm happy with price and performance of SI ECU...

mig888

Is there some way you can just integrate this post into your signature so you can appear to be a party pooper all the time instead of sometimes? That way it's not always a complete surprise to those of us supporting alternative and sometimes *gasp* better software providers.

Blake P

SI doesn't sell Powerchip software.

StealthAuto

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/news/s...cle.asp?aid=71

neilsam

That's very interesting. Thanks for the link!

Blake P

Except that it's meaningless. Nobody is actually selling software, just modifying software that Mercedes Benz created. Powerchip's tuning is an "off the shelf" ECU tweak that is the same for each particular make/model. SpeedInnovation's, on the other hand, is a custom ECU tune to your specifications based on other engine modifications you may (or may not) already have. You can't put a copyright on custom tuning!

StealthAuto

If you read around, I myself suggest other software alternatives including Kleeman and Renntech. I have no problem suggesting honorable retailers with quality products. Now, on the other hand, I do have a problem with a vendor selling software they themselves did not develop.

Secondly, I find it quite bewildering that Speed Innovation has no address listed on their website, is not registered as a valid business, and has no valid tax ID number, which every single business has.

Thirdly, given the fact that Speed Innovation directly states they tune domestic and import vehicles (neither of which utilize a Bosch or Siemens ECU like Mercedes), I think that in itself shows their inexperience. For example, look at companies like Superchips and Diablo tuning. They tune American vehicles and stick to American because that's what they know. Another perfect example is Powerchip, they've been tuning Bosch and Siemens ECU's for the past 15 years and that's what they stick to and are known for throughout the world.

Fourthly, I have never seen Speed Innovation mentioned in any substantial print material, which I think speaks for itself. Powerchip has had numerous magazine features dating back to a Road & Track article in 1995. To see some of Powerchip's articles CLICK HERE to be taken to the press center of their website. If "Speed Innovation in conjuction with Eurorev,have been manufacturing and distributing performance parts and accessories for European, Domestic and Imported autos since 2002," and Powerchip had an article in Road & Track in 1995, I think we know who the real deal is, so to speak.

Fifthly, Speed Innovation's 7-day money back guarantee is in essence pointless. It has been known that ECU's take about 70 miles to relearn various parameters and the true gains will be seen after the ECU has adapted. Unless you're taking a road trip or drive 15+ miles a day, there's no way your ECU will be able to adapt before the 7-day grace period expires. This is why Powerchip has and will always offer a 14-day money back guarantee with their software. They know it performs as advertised and have no problem showing you such.

Lastly, Powerchip has a testimonial section on their website that allows previous customers to freely rant and rave about Powerchip's software; to see it CLICK HERE. With 100 or so testimonials that were independently submitted, and the fact that Speed Innovation has no testimonials anywhere, I think we should let the customers speak for themself.

I don't mean to come off negative in any sense, I just think customers should know all the facts before making such a large purchase.

StealthAuto

Is that right? Then how come every single customer is required to list their mods? Additionally, why have hundreds of forum members paid to come in for a reflash due to new mods? Are they all morons and waisted their money? Also, if Powerchip is an "off the shelf tweak" why did they CREATE SOFTWARE for Evosport's power packages? HMMMMMMMMMMM

Do you know that tuning is software? Do you know that you can copyright software? If not, and it doesn't seem like you do, why do we have to pay for Windows or Photoshop? I might as well just burn a copy of Photoshop for all my friend's businesses, right?

Do your research before making incorrect posts. Forum members want to know the truth, not what you think or have been told.

------------------------------------
Just for reference, here's some information on Powerchip's tuning process:

DEVELOPMENT

We are passionate about vehicle performance, and work harder than any competing chip companies to provide our customers with the best possible increases in performance and driveability. Every upgrade we provide is put through our extensive research and development proceedure prior to its release onto market. This ensures the world-class quality of all of our performance software upgrades.

If you would like more detailed information about this process, please feel free to contact us.

1. Hardware Reverse Engineering

The Powerchip technical team is one of the few in the world that has the hardware resources and skills to REALLY reverse engineer the code used in modern automotive control units.

Initial development starts with using cutting edge technology surface mount soldering rework stations to remove key components from the circuit board. In most late model applications this will normally comprise a set of flash memory chips, and possibly a few fundamental discrete components. Various adaptors are soldered in place of the original chips to allow usage of an emulation device for real time tuning. Final assembly is now completed on the development ecu, usually with the fabrication of a new ecu circuit board enclosure to allow space for the adaptors that have been added in.

The next level of the hardware reverse engineering step is to use a test bench to allow complete control over the ECU. The control unit is supplied with simulated inputs, examples of which include mass airflow meter, coolant temperature, absolute pressure, crank and cam position sensors and lambda (O2) to name just a few. Outputs from the ECU are monitored with appropriate test equipment to ensure that any changes made are not detrimental to the entire system’s operation as a whole. For the development process we are able, for example, to vary only load or only rpm on one axis, which is impossible to do on a functioning vehicle. An OBDII diagnosis machine is used to study the stream of diagnostic data flowing from the proprietary factory serial data port, which is logged and cataloged for further analysis. This allows us to obtain a superior overview on the operation of the ECU and tune and counter for any possible scenario, regardless of the likelihood of it developing.

2. Software Reverse Engineering

Next is reverse engineering the computer code that actually controls the engine. To liken this to a home PC, the ‘CHIP’ is simply a program that is loaded by cars computer. Much like a word processor or graphics program is loaded by your PC, the only difference being that the cars computer is single purpose and the ‘CHIP’ is the only program that it needs to load. With the use of flexible data transfer devices, this software is obtained by reading the various chips contained within the ECU. It is then converted from binary to machine language code suiting the processor that is used in the computer. This allows us to identify key subroutines that control tuning functions in the programs flow of operation. Once these subroutines have been identified, we are able to pinpoint the data references or lookup tables that are utilized and referenced to in these routines. These lookup tables now directly refer to tuning ‘MAPS’ or ‘DIAGRAMS’ which are obtained during this process and used to continue the development process. A tuning ‘map’ has a structure similar to an excel workbook. However, rows and columns now take on real world values. An example of this would be rows relate to engine RPM (from say 500 to 7000 every 250 rpm), and the columns relate to physical engine loading (from 0 to 100 percent in steps of 5 percent). This allows there to be a load and rpm lookup cell for quite a few data points (26 X 20 allows 520 unique cells). Speed and RPM limits are located and adjusted to allow for a natural vehicle top speed during this process. The final stage of the initial development is to find and recalculate the checksums used for data integrity and protection. With flash and rewritable memory devices in use today it is possible for data corruption to occur, much like the data on a home PCs hard drive is prone to corruption from time to time. In its most pure form the checksum simply does what the name implies, it adds all the bytes in the program together and totals them. This total (sum) is then referenced against a predetermined sum to ensure that none of the data has been corrupted, and is a relatively easy form of protection to manipulate. An advanced form of checksum involves overlapping areas that are checked against each other, or manipulation protection as it is called, to ensure that corner shop hackers are not able to butcher the code. These ‘advanced’ protection techniques are neither quick nor simple to manipulate, requiring elite knowledge and skills to overcome the problem. In many older Ecus the vehicle will still be operational with an incorrect checksum, but it simply will not communicate with any factory diagnostic tools used to service the vehicle. This means that the software is totally detectable and hinders servicing of the vehicle.

3. Emulation

An emulator is a device that allows online or real time changes to be made to an ecus calibration. Accommodating hardware design principles allowa the interface that is used to communicate with the ECU, so that its software can be reconfigured to suit almost any memory storage chip used in the world. The ECU's memory component (normally EPROM or flash) is removed from the circuit board during the hardware phase and a special cable is used to interface to the address and data bus communicating with the processor. A unique chip called SRAM is used for memory emulation due to its extremely fast access time when updating. Program execution is identical to the original ECU, with the program data changes remaining transparent to the host ECU. Using a serial or USB cable from a laptop computer, data can be loaded into the emulator which behaves as a virtual PROM, fooling the ECU into thinking that the chip is still in place. With access and update times better than seventy nanoseconds, fast glitch free real time tuning can be realized. Once all the preliminary hardware and software issues have been dealt with and the test bench phase has been completed, it is time to install the modified ECU back in the vehicle. The in-car emulation stage is now ready to be initiated. Unique software allows us to quickly and efficiently identify the load and rpm axis of a map and see in real time the data cells that are accessed. From this we can calculate fuelling and ignition angle requirements, load and reload calibrations for on the spot back to back comparisons on fuel types, engine modifications and more. Complex data acquisition devices provide closed loop feedback and check on changes made to the calibration to ensure no parameters exceed safety margins, with all data logged for cross checking and analysis.

4. Dynomometer Testing

Full throttle power runs on a dynamometer are now possible, with each calibration tweaked and tested throughout the rpm range to maximize power and torque. Extensive adaption and durability tests are run during this phase, with varying temperature and humidity testing to guarantee power gains and reliability. Different fuel grades are tested to allow for the differences in combustion processes, maximizing both fuel quantity, ignition advance angle, camshaft timing control and boost pressure on turbo vehicles for best power and torque. All of the performance compromising tolerances built in to the original program are refined for each fuel octane level while still utilizing all of the essential engine safety strategies like knock retard and closed loop fuel calibration. Power gains and torque figures are recorded and averaged to generate the performance data for each new performance software calibration.

5. On Road Development

Where Powerchip really shines out over its competitors is the emphasis and time spent refining the program for drivability and enjoyment. Much more a ‘real world’ gain than full throttle horse power runs on a dyno, part throttle refinement is a gain everyone uses every time they drive the vehicle. Flat spots and poor off the line performance are smoothed out in this process, and transient throttle conditions are made razor sharp for the ultimate in response. Real time changes to tables like throttle response and power enrichment are done on road to fine tune the driving experience of the vehicle, with acceleration timing equipment used to ensure consistent and measurable gains in part throttle drivability. Hours of city traffic and hills driving are simulated on a closed road track to make certain that all driving styles are catered for from the most aggressive street racer to the easy freeway cruiser.

6. Customization

As the final part of the tuning process for any car, we account for all of the minor differences between vehicles. In a modern ECU it is very important to keep in mind that most vehicles are uniquely coded to allow for differences in fuel quality and operating conditions throughout the world, and allow the factory anti theft system to only function with a specially coded control unit. Differences in drive train are taken in to account, as the same engine can be used in a number of differing configurations, four wheel drive or rear wheel only, four five and six speed transmissions and differences between sedan and coupe models are all considered on their own merits. Hardware tuning upgrades like fitment of an aftermarket exhaust or air box system to eliminate intake and exhaust restrictions can also be catered for with special programming, to get the very best from a vehicles combination. The standard programming cannot cope with these modifications as it is unaware that changes have been made to the way the engine is allowed to operate, and full performance levels cannot be reached without the correct tuning to suit a particular combination. Available fuel quality is a major aspect of customization, as even the top models of each major vehicle manufacturer are only tuned to suit an octane level of 91 MON, meaning that they don’t have the capability to correctly adapt to a superior quality of fuel. This is standard practice throughout the world, with the end result that even high end models are tuned to a compromise to allow for these variations.

7. Quality Control and Assurance Programs

With Powerchip at the forefront of customer service and satisfaction, it is only fit that we ensure that every product we sell is as good as it can possibly be.

For the duration of the development process and at the end of the development process operational techniques are reviewed using a rigorous quality assurance program. Using the simple but effective input-process-measurement-control-adjustment closed loop system, changes and improvements to our products are continually monitored with preventative and corrective action strategies used when required. Data that was acquired during the development process with logging equipment is reevaluated and hand checked by engineers to ensure integrity. Throughout the calibration process our software engineers are required to continually check and recheck their work to maintain conformity to predefined standards for each different calibration configuration. All new software calibration files that are developed are screened by senior programmers upon their completion to ensure that the correct protocols have been followed during development, and that end users of our product are guaranteed factory quality reliability and functionality.

mig888

You know it's almost laughable how much of a concern this is to you/powerchip - because why can't you just end your badgering by literally trying to prove your point in court - as history goes well within this forum there's been a pending lawsuit for what.. nearly 3 years now?

If you wanted all this SI tuning pirate vs. pirate drama to end, by all means every chance was available right? So why keep bringing it up on every thread about tuning?

..It's funny, even AdamG@EuroElites takes a laid back attitude about Renntech tuning (you know, like the kind he doesn't have to defend?) yet the attitude you present in HIS threads is determinant on P-Chip being "the best out there" with the same copy-pasted dynos of old news. You insist on powerchip presence in every single tuning thread - and anyone with knowledge to read can agree.

I know for a fact I have a legit copy of M271 software. Why? Because back then you guys didn't offer it, nor had the ability to R&D a K-Boxed vehicle (there were only 2 in the U.S. at the time of my purchasing... oh wait, SI tuned both within the same week, oh no!)

...Just let the people pick. What's going on at StealthAuto? Not selling enough bulbs lately? How much is a set of reverse lights, I'll help you out.

MJ50

ditto... reminds me of "hyundai santa fe > land rover lr3", "hyundai sonata > bmw 5 series", "hyundai azera > lexus ls460" commercial...

Blake P

You forgot the section about partnering up with forum sponsors who fabricate outlandish claims in order to try and ruin other legitimate companies' reputations.

StealthAuto

It's funny how you yourself have more interest in Powerchip's software and software in general than most forum sponsors. I know that you have lots of unproductive free time on your hands, but I do not see why you continuously post in Powerchip threads when they in no way pertain to you. Also, you continuously post about Speed Innovation on your personal forum name. What do you have to hide? That's one sleezy way to increase sales.

Additionally, as stated many times before by numerous forum members including Vadim who's very well respected on this board, you have a hidden agenda and such is evident in your hundreds of posts about software, mainly promoting and supporting Speed Innovation's software. Now, for some one who is simply happy with their purchase, why do you repetatively act like your on Speed Innovation's payroll? Also, what business do you have in entering numerous threads on topics you either a) have no interest in or b) have no knowledge in only to bring up Speed Innovation. I can tell you one thing, I'm directly against your gorilla sales tactics.

In regards to suing Speed Innovation for damages, do to your relationship and part in this, I think you know the reasons such hasn't happened already. The biggest reason is that suing a company who keeps faulty books will end up costing more in legal fees than it will pay back in damages.

As far as Stealth Auto goes, everything is great here, thanks for asking. I would accept your offer to purchase bulbs but I'm afraid your card might be declined again and we don't want that hassle now do we. In regards to our Stealth Bulbs, sales are actually booming. We just hooked up big distributors in Australia, Germany, Great Britain, Jordan, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Korea, Argentina, Mexico, South Africa, Canada, etc. Simply said, we have more international distributors than the amount of total international orders Speed Innovations has fulfilled to date.

Please, provide facts to back your claims, otherwise that's all they are...claims.

In conclusion, I feel we have any right to promote a product on this board if we feel it's a quality product. Afterall, we pay to be sponsors on this forum and keep this forum running. We do not create fake user names and attempt to sell software through deception, this is something you should both understand and learn from.