Losing torque below 3000rpm after MagnaFlow exhaust
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w203
Losing torque below 3000rpm after MagnaFlow exhaust
Hi guys, I just want some input on this. Well, I've had this exhaust for more than 2 months now, its a custom quad tip Magnaflow system that a company call Butch fab for me. I've notice ever since I installed the exhaust that I'm losing torque below 3000rpm, after 3000rpm, I can feel the torque coming back. Thus, now it's so much easier to drive with tiptronic, especially when I'm going uphill. I've thought about selling it before but had decided not to afterwards, now, I'm just not sure and want input from you guys. I remember Frank W mentioned that my muffler was installed backwards which will screw up my flow. But I called up Butch and they told me the Muffler's flow is universal and can be installed which ever way desire. My question is, should I keep the exhaust and install a resonator which Butch told me would solve my problem, and I will get all the torque back. Or should I just buy a new exhaust system?
Below is a picture of my system.
Thanks!
Below is a picture of my system.
Thanks!
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From: NPR florida
C230k coupe 500sec convertible
get an eisenmann race exhaust and be done with it---looks better-performs better-not quad but will bolt up better---sell the custom setup to someone else and run--- ang get a little of your low end back, but you should see how much you lose once you have headers put on!!!
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From: Houston
02 cl203
im not an expert but your setup doesnt make cents, maybe these would have been better
should have done the dual tip this way
or here are 2 more ways, move the muffler and y off. not sure if method 2 would fit.
since this is a universal, not made for our cars , probably gonna lose some since the factory are good but if eisenmann or another would have been better. I am planning to do dual tip also. can anyone help to provide which method would be the best to minimize loss.
should have done the dual tip this way
or here are 2 more ways, move the muffler and y off. not sure if method 2 would fit.
since this is a universal, not made for our cars , probably gonna lose some since the factory are good but if eisenmann or another would have been better. I am planning to do dual tip also. can anyone help to provide which method would be the best to minimize loss.
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From: SF East Bay
"Double Stuff" SOLD | Nor*Cals "Pesky Audi"
get an eisenmann race exhaust and be done with it---looks better-performs better-not quad but will bolt up better---sell the custom setup to someone else and run--- ang get a little of your low end back, but you should see how much you lose once you have headers put on!!!
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
New exhaust system Obviously the maker of your system wasn't going for efficiency....why would you pay someone more money to fix a problem that they caused?
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From: NPR florida
C230k coupe 500sec convertible
no offense --please don't let butch know, but it is not a chevy--it is a mercedes--and have seen too many botched jobe done by rednecks working on a mercedes including my own--my advice is to make it look functional and pretty (so things don't burn or fall off)
nice to have quat, but to do this right just get a welt miester if you have to have a quad setup---it is done the right way and won't melt your wires or anything else for that case---there is a reason the heat shielding is there and it's not just there to keep your groceries in the trunk from getting hot
nice to have quat, but to do this right just get a welt miester if you have to have a quad setup---it is done the right way and won't melt your wires or anything else for that case---there is a reason the heat shielding is there and it's not just there to keep your groceries in the trunk from getting hot
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From: SoCal, Irvine
Stage 2 C7 A6, QX60
im not an expert but your setup doesnt make cents, maybe these would have been better
should have done the dual tip this way
or here are 2 more ways, move the muffler and y off. not sure if method 2 would fit.
since this is a universal, not made for our cars , probably gonna lose some since the factory are good but if eisenmann or another would have been better. I am planning to do dual tip also. can anyone help to provide which method would be the best to minimize loss.
should have done the dual tip this way
or here are 2 more ways, move the muffler and y off. not sure if method 2 would fit.
since this is a universal, not made for our cars , probably gonna lose some since the factory are good but if eisenmann or another would have been better. I am planning to do dual tip also. can anyone help to provide which method would be the best to minimize loss.
but just requires a little more work, I have that type of setup
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
After seeing your setup, I see why you lose torque below 3000 rpm.
FrankW's comments about it being installed backwards is correct. The airflow travels through the muffler twice as much as it needs to with your current setup.
If it were set up the way people have drawn, the airflow of the exhaust would always be flowing towards the rear of the chassis, through the muffler once and out the dual tips.
With your current setup, the airflow goes from the intake manifold down through the single exhaust pipe, out through the muffler to the driver side exit, back into the muffler, out through extended piping, and out the through passenger side tip.
So, in essence, you've created more back pressure than there was before...LOL.
FrankW's comments about it being installed backwards is correct. The airflow travels through the muffler twice as much as it needs to with your current setup.
If it were set up the way people have drawn, the airflow of the exhaust would always be flowing towards the rear of the chassis, through the muffler once and out the dual tips.
With your current setup, the airflow goes from the intake manifold down through the single exhaust pipe, out through the muffler to the driver side exit, back into the muffler, out through extended piping, and out the through passenger side tip.
So, in essence, you've created more back pressure than there was before...LOL.
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Super Moderator Alumni
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
The problem with this is, if the muffler is placed so early in the piping, it's going to slow the air-flow. Then the amount of piping that the air has to travel afterwards is so much, that this could potentially cause a loss of power rather than a gain. You want to slow down the air-flow as little as possible up front.
Another thing is, with the piping like this, you have to make some sort of heat shield made for the right side piping. The wheel well is plastic and that doesn't work well with heat. In larger engines, there is usually dual mufflers (e.g. AMG 55 engines). With a 240 engine, that engine needs as "ideal" airflow conditions as possible considering it's low torque/hp ratings.
Another thing is, with the piping like this, you have to make some sort of heat shield made for the right side piping. The wheel well is plastic and that doesn't work well with heat. In larger engines, there is usually dual mufflers (e.g. AMG 55 engines). With a 240 engine, that engine needs as "ideal" airflow conditions as possible considering it's low torque/hp ratings.
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Yes. For the 240 engine. The 320/350...well, that all depends on what you do with those engines.
Now, say if you were to slap a supercharger on top of the 240 or 320...most ideal exhaust setup for forced induction cars is a straight through type design.
Now, say if you were to slap a supercharger on top of the 240 or 320...most ideal exhaust setup for forced induction cars is a straight through type design.
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w203
Thanks for all the great replies guys, really a great help. Drex, now I understand how the flow is screwing up with your explanation, I guess Butch was just bsing to me. I will definitely not put any more money into this system. I've looked into the Weltmeister before too, but I wasn't sure before because I just wanted to go for looks initially. But after my car got hit n' run and vandalized, I threw out my Carlsson CRS kit and went back to almost all stock. Now decided I wanna do some performance tuning. I just installed new suspension this week, and looking for some swaybars right now. Anyone have good susgestion for swaybars would be great. 
As for my exhaust, I will look into the Weltmeister quad. Seems to be the only exhaust system on the market that is a quad setup without sacrifising performance. Also, good price too compared to the Carlsson.
As for my exhaust, I will look into the Weltmeister quad. Seems to be the only exhaust system on the market that is a quad setup without sacrifising performance. Also, good price too compared to the Carlsson.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: West Los Angeles
Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
Thanks for all the great replies guys, really a great help. Drex, now I understand how the flow is screwing up with your explanation, I guess Butch was just bsing to me. I will definitely not put any more money into this system. I've looked into the Weltmeister before too, but I wasn't sure before because I just wanted to go for looks initially. But after my car got hit n' run and vandalized, I threw out my Carlsson CRS kit and went back to almost all stock. Now decided I wanna do some performance tuning. I just installed new suspension this week, and looking for some swaybars right now. Anyone have good susgestion for swaybars would be great.
As for my exhaust, I will look into the Weltmeister quad. Seems to be the only exhaust system on the market that is a quad setup without sacrifising performance. Also, good price too compared to the Carlsson.
As for my exhaust, I will look into the Weltmeister quad. Seems to be the only exhaust system on the market that is a quad setup without sacrifising performance. Also, good price too compared to the Carlsson.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Bay Area
'05 c230 Kompressor Sport Sedan
My my experience and research, I've noticed that all the exhaust, intake type of mods that go into a car increase the high end while sacrificing the low end torque. It's just a rule. I had an Cold air intake (cai) installed on a Rav4 (easier to feel the difference with a weaker car) and the low end was slightly worse, but would pick up at freeway speeds past 3000rpm.
I agree with what the other fellas said regarding your current setup. it's just not as efficient. But even if it were efficient, there would still be sacrifice in low end torque for high end. Any comments? Am I completely off or do you guys agree?
I agree with what the other fellas said regarding your current setup. it's just not as efficient. But even if it were efficient, there would still be sacrifice in low end torque for high end. Any comments? Am I completely off or do you guys agree?
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From: Central NJ
C230K Coupe/Orion/C4/C5/CD/AMG Spoiler/V60/TeleAid, 2 MGB's
Take it back to "Butch" and pitch a fit. He screwed up your car. Have him remove the resonator (the smaller "muffler" in your pic) and install a "Y-pipe" at that point. Insist on stainless....maybe even step up to 3 inch.
Then have him install a new, smaller dual tip left muffler and re-route the right side from the "Y", around the front of the spare tire carrier and into a second identical dual tip muffler. Any "custom shop" should know how to hang this properly - and have the parts readily in stock to complete the work in a timely manner.
Oh, and have him heat paint his lousy, rusted welds....his work looks like crap. This shouldn't cost you a nickle.
Your C240 will still sound like a beer fart, but it won't embarrass you with horribly diminished performance or appearance.
While you're at it, get a tune up - you're blowing carbon...
Then have him install a new, smaller dual tip left muffler and re-route the right side from the "Y", around the front of the spare tire carrier and into a second identical dual tip muffler. Any "custom shop" should know how to hang this properly - and have the parts readily in stock to complete the work in a timely manner.
Oh, and have him heat paint his lousy, rusted welds....his work looks like crap. This shouldn't cost you a nickle.
Your C240 will still sound like a beer fart, but it won't embarrass you with horribly diminished performance or appearance.
While you're at it, get a tune up - you're blowing carbon...
Last edited by Rick; Sep 23, 2007 at 06:55 AM.
