bumpnzx3

Has anyone ever had issues with flexing, breaking, or bending of the stock diameter front sway bar end links? I have access to a set of end links that are adjustable and larger diameter than stock end links or any other available W203 adjustable end links, for a pretty good price- just curious if size mattered. I am planning on tracking this car occasionally this season in order how to "learn" to drive. I'm already descent, but the local track is planning several track days/classes.

My car is lowered, so I know I need adjustable end links- just curious how far you can take an adjustable end link (which I already have) that is still the stock diameter.

splinter

I’m about to install a third set of front links. The 10mm and 12mm OE links have the same diameter shaft. Only the encapsulated joint bolt size changed between the two variants.

They seem to be yet another consumable piece of hardware. Untoward suspension noise detracts from an otherwise pleasant drive. Next up are Code3’s pieces. The first attempt with Brandon’s links resulted in interference between their lower joint and thrust arm, even when adjusted to its shortest setting. It only occurred at full extension; however, such a dangerous condition was clearly unacceptable. In fairness, it must be noted that my Koni’s permitted an additional ~1.5 inches of rebound than the OE struts. He has since sent a set with OE length. Have not yet installed them. The purchase impulse was triggered by the heim joints, larger shaft, and their preload adjustability.

IIRC, you’re using the H&R anti-roll bars as well. They perform splendidly, but the increased load imparted to the links during spirited driving only hastens their demise.

bumpnzx3

Well, I wasn't wanting to drop Code3/ Brabon's name (who's links I currently own), but I have found through, my lengthy research, that another set will work for W203's, and appear to be much more beefy. I am on board with going with/trying this set and being a test rat- but only if people think the stock pieces are prone to flex.

splinter

Please share your findings. I’d found these links, but held off because Code3 is a sponsor.

He has been inactive on the forum of late, but I though it only fair to give him the first shot. With all that has transpired around here with vendors, tuners, and middlemen, am I alone in the belief that full disclosure is a positive for all of us?

Kindly send a PM if you feel it more appropriate. TIA.

bumpnzx3

PM sent

TruTaing

Splinter - I have the same issue w/ Brandon's set on the shortest setting... He has sent me a shorter shaft, but I have yet to install it or compare its length to the original.

bumpnzx3

Any upadate on fitment? I can't really try mine out due to the fact I sold my stock wheels and I am still waiting for my 19's- so my car is (and has been since mid December) on jackstands in my shop

I think I am going to order up that set I found that I believe will work also- just as a comparison. I would venture a guess that Brandon's will be a tad too long for me also since I have H&R springs and Koni struts. The set I found that I believe will work, are just a hair shorter than Brandon's. Heck- if they work, I might tell Brandon about them. Maybe he can start supplying them also

bumpnzx3

Curiosity got the best of me- I just ordered up the other set I found. The company is out of Ohio, I am in Illinois- I should have pictures, measurements, and comparisons by Wednesday or so.

bumpnzx3

Well, fellas- the Alta endlinks from outmotoring.com (Mini Cooper tuner) arrived.

Pros:

-Outmotoring endlinks are slightly shorter than Code3 (score for those who need them just a hair shorter than Code3's are capable of) and extend to about the same length as Code3.

-Outmotoring endlinks are between 25%-30% larger shaft dia. (Kinda score- hex shape of larger diameter, but it's hollow)

-Outmotoring endlinks- $140 shipped compared to $170 shipped for Code3 (score).

-Outmotoring endlinks are more aesthetically pleasing (not sure if that matters or not).

Cons:

-Outmotoring threaded studs are 3/8" where we need 10mm or 12mm. 3/8" is roughly 9.5mm- so this would work fine for the pre '05 and/or non AMG W203/209 crowd

-While Outmotoring's rod's are larger diameter and would appear to be stonger, Code3 wins in heim joint design (rubber boot) and size. I'm not sure which would break first- the heim joint or shaft

Wash:
Customer service and return policy is great on either end.


I am currently trying to come up with a good fix for the smaller studs on the Outmotoring/Alta set.

splinter

Since our jobsite was rained-out this afternoon, I figured it was a fine opportunity to actually do something useful.

Installed the Code3 links. Adjusted their overall length to allow a safe margin from the thrust arm at full rebound. They are stout, and perform as Brandon said they would. Test drive felt precise and controlled. The ever-so-slight clearance that the OE parts had developed was eliminated.

Any cornering enthusiast seeking to improve his front-end roll couple should consider this worthwhile upgrade. I’ll vouch for its efficacy.

bumpnzx3

just getting around to installing mine. any idea how much shorter they were after Brandon sent them back to you? I am just going to cut a 1/4" off of them and go from there. i don't want to take off too much.

splinter

I didn’t measure the first pair.

The ones on the car now are ~11 3/4” bolt center-to-bolt center.

They’re only 1/4” longer than OE. That overall length leaves ~3/8” from the arm at full rebound.

bumpnzx3

stock at full extension or koni? i can't remember which you have.

*edit*
nevermind- you have koni's also. i will measure and cut mine to length tomorrow.

tip for anyone reading this and attempting to cut the links- grab a spare nut to use as a straight cutting edge and use the supplied nut with the links as a stop-nut to keep the junker/cutting edge from moving. smooth cut and the threads should remain undamaged.

C230 Sport Coup

So you're saying the Mini Couper end links fit our W203 ?

bumpnzx3

the adjustable set made by Alta that outmotoring.com sells will- if you don't have the 12mm holes that are on the C32 and newer W203s will.

C230 Sport Coup

Hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. (from someone still running stock, non-AMG endlinks) and trying to get a little less initial roll out of the car, (and wondering if that extra space in the mounting hole on the sway bar
ie it's larger than the size of the endlink, is having an effect)

1. What is the objective in terms of handling you hoped to accomplish?
2. Did you accomplish it with the parts as shown here? Or, please describe the result, as compared to stock.
3. Assuming I go with adjustable end links, how does one know when the
correct adjustment is reached? What effect does adjusting have on handling?
Can various results be achieved from different levels of adjustment?
and
4. In my understanding, there are front AND rear end links, correct?
Would there be a benefit to replacing the rear endlinks from stock non-amg, to AMG or something else?

In the end, can I expect a noticeble improvement from upgrading my endlinks?
While the speed limit on hwy 17 may be 50 mph, I'd like to not be feeling
so much G force at 70 on the corners...the AMG bars made a huge difference initally...but maybe I can get a little more out of them for not much coin? And I don't want to get any stiffer per se.

splinter

I’ll let bumpnzx3 go first ‘cause it’s his thread.

Afterwards, my customary obfuscated and irreverent thoughts shall be forthcoming.

C230 Sport Coup

I'm trying to price the AMG endlinks but sooo many different pn's.

Looks like mine were replaced last year in Sac by the dealer with
2033202889

The pn shown here elsewhere of 2033202689 is only 30 bucks...down quite a bit from the original price...

bumpnzx3

baaahahahhha- it might be my thread- but that doesn't mean my car is no longer on jackstands my wheels finally came in the other day- only for one of them to have a blem from the factory. had to send that one back- the replacement just arrived today. haven't had the tires mounted just yet. i hope to be able to comment in a week or so.


i will however say- i don't think using the smaller endlinks on the amg bars causes an issue as long as A) be sure to put a little upward pressure on the bar when tightening the endlinks- seat the strut end in the top of the hole and seat the sway bar end on the bottom of the hole- hope that makes sense- you are simulating the weight of the car on the suspension and B) be sure to tighten it well. i had to drive my car a couple times like that, and didn't notice any performance difference. i'm not at all saying that is the optimum setup, because obviously it's not. however, i think i know enough about cars and have driven them enough to be able to notice any obvious differences.

also note that, if your endlinks have a lot of miles on them- then, most certainly you will be able to feel a difference in upgrading links- not so much because of the size, but because of the fresh heim/ball joint.

code3 has a pretty good explanation why one would want to upgrade to adjustable links. it's mostly for people who are lowered, to correct the swaybar geometry. however, some of the serious canyon carvers/auto x'er's have been known to break the stock links- so adjustables are a good option not only because they are adjustable, but because they are stronger. if my car was at stock height and i didn't intend to drive it hard on occasion and go to some track days- i would most likely just replace with stockers when mine wore out. however- i am lowered and i plan to beat on the car just a tad every once in a while.

*edit*
i am pretty sure the rear end links are the same- the only reason i say this is because h&r only has one part number for all rear w203 bars, unlike the fronts.

bumpnzx3

Splinter/Tru-

I just happened to have a look at my car this morning when I was on my way to the other side of the garage for the Focus (daily car).......I plan to use the inner set of holes on the h&r bars- stiffest setting. I want the car as tight as possible- if I was concerned with a stiff ride- I wouldn't have messed with the suspension in the fist place.....Anyway- at first glance (at 5:30am)- it would appear as though the original clearance issues could be solved by just cutting the h&r bars between the two mounting option points? It looks like there's enough space between the holes that there would still be plenty of meat left on the bar for the bolt/washer to bite on w/o causing structural problems. Besides- lack of meat in that spot would be an issue if there was horizontal movement- here, there is not- only verticle.

Thoughts?

C230 Sport Coup

Well I verified the pn on the AMG endlinks-
N913023012002-30.60 each - x 2
N913023012002- 1.87 X 4 nuts-

So, it wouldn't be worth it to upgrade the endlinks to the AMG version?
Seems like they were a lot more expensive back when I 1st bought my sway bars.

I'm looking for a little improvement on the initial lean in....
wouldn't this help?

Or since I am lowered, they wouldn't do anything?

bumpnzx3

i, personally, would not just upgrade to the AMG stockers if i were you. i would uprade to the adjustables. if you do, either A) tell Brandon you are on CO's, that way he can send you a slightly shorter set or B) be prepared to cut them a little shorter, because you might have some interferance (*sp) at full extension when you are up on jacks, or possibly driving if the strut stroke ever reaches full extension.

take my opinion for what it's worth- it's just that, an opinions. everyone's got one, and they all stink

splinter

That being the case, we will wait for your impressions and feedback on the aftermarket links.

splinter

I’m at least a decade or two older than the typical demographic of the W203 portion of our forum.

That doesn’t mean I don’t like to get after it. A stiff chassis is fine by me. She likes it, too. A properly controlled and quick ride is what I’m after. Nevermind nlpamg, I’ll get an M next time! To that end, mine has been modified to suit my preferences. Worked on its handling first as it was the most lacking. Improving cornering speed is much easier, and requires far less investment, than increasing horsepower. In an incremental sense, at least. In addition, it can be appreciated on every drive without having to floorboard the throttle.

Try your new combination to see how you like it.

I’ve adjusted springs, pads, damping, alignment and the anti-roll bars several times in an effort to find its sweet spot. Haven’t yet found it because it is elusive. And, like anything, it’s a compromise. With the front bar at its innermost setting, the thing continued to push way too much. The lack of front static and dynamic negative camber is a major shortcoming of the chassis. Roll exacerbates the problem, as does an increase in front end roll couple. It is a delicate balance. It depends on how, and under what conditions, you would like it to perform best that ultimately dictate the prudent path to pursue. I’ve had barbs hurled my direction for referring to it as an understeering pig. This post, no such phrase will be uttered. You may want to start by setting the front to soft and rear at firm. At one point I even reinstalled the OE AMG front bar, but the rear became a little too happy in the 70-110 sweepers. Before you loose the ‘soft’ setting on the front bar, test it in both positions to see which will best suit your purposes.

Of course, the Coupe has different weight distribution than my taxi, so your results may be different.

C230 Sport Coup

Indeed