P0012 - Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yeah, the 3130 is actually being delivered today. Funny thing is, I got in the car this morning, drove up the block, looked down and the CEL was off. I drove a whole 30 miles and it did not come back on. Also, the car drives real smooth and the gas mileage is better. Thanks a bunch! Your advice has been on point.
Next up:
1. Bleed brakes
2. Change wipers
3. Transmission flush - Should I leave this to a professional?
4. New rear tires
5. (4) Wheel alignment
6. SAS - replacement if wheel alignment does not help the ESP MALFUNCTION message
I'll keep you posted as I get through this list...
Next up:
1. Bleed brakes
2. Change wipers
3. Transmission flush - Should I leave this to a professional?
4. New rear tires
5. (4) Wheel alignment
6. SAS - replacement if wheel alignment does not help the ESP MALFUNCTION message
I'll keep you posted as I get through this list...
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Nov 20, 2011 at 09:35 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 467
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
A few toys & 07' E350 4matic w/AMG sport packg.
Get smart??? What?
What??? That's a "rolling eyes" smily??? I thought that was a smile face...no rolling eyes intended haha.
+1. Not sure WTH the rolling of the eyes is. This thread contains every piece of information you could possibly need on the magnet issue, and you, PCY, and I continue to spoon feed posters the information that is already posted in this thread, if they read it in it's entirety. Then we get this 
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: 3rd from the left on the evolution chart
2007 C230 Sport
I have been following this thread with great interest, and I want to thank Glyn and John and everybody else that chimed in with useful information. I have an 07 C230 SS with these exact issues (P0022 etc.) I also have a CPS fault code (P0335). I was prepared to take it to the dealer next week and I know it was going to be spendy 
not to mention it's a 100 mile trip one-way.
I imagine they would have replaced the crank sensor and took care of that issue, replaced the cam sensor (ignoring the magnets) and I would get another CEL about halfway home (I'm a cynic).
I'm ordering 4 magnets and a crank position sensor and I'm going to do the install myself, clear the codes, and hope this solves it.
I've always done all my own work on all my vehicles but was going to let the dealer do the transmission service. I had already ordered an OEM filter and pan gasket before I saw what all was involved, but again, through this site I found John's trans service thread and I believe I'll tackle THAT one too. I need to read through it again and I may have to axe a question or two for clarity (the wife says I'm "dense") but I'll try not to be a pest or ask anything that's already been answered if I can avoid it.
Again, thank you to all involved for a thread that has most likely saved me major $$ and aggravation!
Darryl
not to mention it's a 100 mile trip one-way.I imagine they would have replaced the crank sensor and took care of that issue, replaced the cam sensor (ignoring the magnets) and I would get another CEL about halfway home (I'm a cynic).
I'm ordering 4 magnets and a crank position sensor and I'm going to do the install myself, clear the codes, and hope this solves it.
I've always done all my own work on all my vehicles but was going to let the dealer do the transmission service. I had already ordered an OEM filter and pan gasket before I saw what all was involved, but again, through this site I found John's trans service thread and I believe I'll tackle THAT one too. I need to read through it again and I may have to axe a question or two for clarity (the wife says I'm "dense") but I'll try not to be a pest or ask anything that's already been answered if I can avoid it.
Again, thank you to all involved for a thread that has most likely saved me major $$ and aggravation!
Darryl
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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w203
I also have the P0010 and P0020 CEL on my 2005 c230 it's only the 4 cyl supercharged model.
One thing it does have that I haven't seen mentioned is a terrible metallic grinding/clunking noise on startup and at idle. It runs smooth and fine outside of idle. No strange noises.
What is the chance this is a timing tensioner failure? I understand I could replace just the magnets and wait and see, but as my wife commutes 140 mi/day I would like to resolve the issue all in one weekend.
One thing it does have that I haven't seen mentioned is a terrible metallic grinding/clunking noise on startup and at idle. It runs smooth and fine outside of idle. No strange noises.
What is the chance this is a timing tensioner failure? I understand I could replace just the magnets and wait and see, but as my wife commutes 140 mi/day I would like to resolve the issue all in one weekend.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The chances of timing chain & tensioner trouble is high on 4 cylinder models - the only other thing is can be is cam adjuster rattle requiring deburring or replacement. The main chain tensioner is hydraulic.
Caveat: The noise remains after removal of the Poly V accessory belt.
Diagnose this quickly. If the chain jumps a few teeth on the cam sprockets you are in for an expensive repair. The CEL on a 4 cylinder model is ominous.
Caveat: The noise remains after removal of the Poly V accessory belt.
Diagnose this quickly. If the chain jumps a few teeth on the cam sprockets you are in for an expensive repair. The CEL on a 4 cylinder model is ominous.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
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w203
Thanks for that. Yeah it doesn't bode well. I am ordering a chain and tensioner. I haven't found the adjuster P/N. Should I replace the rail also or does that part not wear?
I assume these are unimproved parts and will fail again :-(
I assume these are unimproved parts and will fail again :-(
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
You must ideally replace the slipper rails. They usually wear. You also need to check the LANCHESTER BALANCER chain while you are in there.
The chain & tensioner is single gang on these engines to save weight & will give good life with 229.5 oils & observing maintenance requirements..
The chain & tensioner is single gang on these engines to save weight & will give good life with 229.5 oils & observing maintenance requirements..
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
5 A 000 993 21 76 CHAIN
CONTROL DRIVE, WITH LOCK 001
11 A 271 052 11 16 SLIDE RAIL
(CLAMPING RAIL) 001
14 N 000000 0002102 SCREW
TENSIONING RAIL TO CYLINDER HEAD 001
17 A 271 052 10 16 SLIDE RAIL
AT CYLINDER HEAD 001
20 N 000000 0002102 SCREW
SLIDING RAIL TO CYLINDER HEAD 001
23 A 000 997 64 20 EXPANSION PLUG 002
26 A 271 052 04 16 SLIDE RAIL
TO CAMSHAFT BEARING HOUSING 001
70 A 271 052 06 40 HOLDER
CHAIN TIGHTENER TO CYLINDER CRANKCASE 001
75 N 910105 5008014 SCREW
CHAIN TIGHTENER TO CYLINDER CRANKCASE
M8X35 002
130 A 004 997 25 94 ROLLER CHAIN
LANCHESTER BALANCER, WITH LOCK
Replaced_By: A 000 993 20 76 001
130 A 000 993 20 76 CHAIN
LANCHESTER BALANCER, WITH LOCK 001
150 A 271 030 08 63 CHAIN TIGHTENER
LANCHESTER BALANCER 001
CONTROL DRIVE, WITH LOCK 001
11 A 271 052 11 16 SLIDE RAIL
(CLAMPING RAIL) 001
14 N 000000 0002102 SCREW
TENSIONING RAIL TO CYLINDER HEAD 001
17 A 271 052 10 16 SLIDE RAIL
AT CYLINDER HEAD 001
20 N 000000 0002102 SCREW
SLIDING RAIL TO CYLINDER HEAD 001
23 A 000 997 64 20 EXPANSION PLUG 002
26 A 271 052 04 16 SLIDE RAIL
TO CAMSHAFT BEARING HOUSING 001
70 A 271 052 06 40 HOLDER
CHAIN TIGHTENER TO CYLINDER CRANKCASE 001
75 N 910105 5008014 SCREW
CHAIN TIGHTENER TO CYLINDER CRANKCASE
M8X35 002
130 A 004 997 25 94 ROLLER CHAIN
LANCHESTER BALANCER, WITH LOCK
Replaced_By: A 000 993 20 76 001
130 A 000 993 20 76 CHAIN
LANCHESTER BALANCER, WITH LOCK 001
150 A 271 030 08 63 CHAIN TIGHTENER
LANCHESTER BALANCER 001
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Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 57
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2006 C230 & 2002 C230
Does anyone have a good/valid explanation why would my C230 get a higher MPG than usual, say 32 vs 25 (average while commuting), when the Check Engine light (P0022) comes on?
I think some of you with had experienced the same thing...
I think some of you with had experienced the same thing...
Last edited by chazman; Nov 17, 2011 at 03:54 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 57
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2006 C230 & 2002 C230
Before I found this thread, I didn't know what the problem (P0022 - drv side int cam magnet) was about, and I emailed to MB Corporation Consumer Services and asked some questions. Then I got a response back with NO ANSWERS to any of my question. Instead, they gave me a number to call them back. I called and a lady answered. I asked if the same questions:
Q1. Is this a known problem to MB?
A1. No.
Q2. Can this part be covered under a emission related items?
A2. No.
Q3. I bought my C230 new with a very high hope of trouble-free reliable ownership for a longtime, and this is my first MB ever. Can this be covered by MB as a goodwill gesture?
A3. No.
After finding this thread, I emailed them again saying a whole bunch of MB owners have had this problem, and there is even a service bulletin from MB with a new P/N magnet. It was more like a comment. Then they emailed me back saying I needed to call them back. Sigh...
Q1. Is this a known problem to MB?
A1. No.
Q2. Can this part be covered under a emission related items?
A2. No.
Q3. I bought my C230 new with a very high hope of trouble-free reliable ownership for a longtime, and this is my first MB ever. Can this be covered by MB as a goodwill gesture?
A3. No.
After finding this thread, I emailed them again saying a whole bunch of MB owners have had this problem, and there is even a service bulletin from MB with a new P/N magnet. It was more like a comment. Then they emailed me back saying I needed to call them back. Sigh...
Last edited by chazman; Nov 22, 2011 at 12:20 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 64
From: Camas, WA
2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
Before I found this thread, I didn't know what the problem (P0022 - drv side int cam magnet) was about, and I emailed to MB Corporation Consumer Services and asked some questions. Then I got a response back with NO ANSWERS to any of my question. Instead, they gave me a number to call them back. I called and a lady answered. I asked if the same questions:
Q1. Is this a known problem to MB?
A1. No.
Q2. Can this part be covered under a emission related items?
A2. No.
Q3. I bought my C230 new with a very high hope of trouble-free reliable ownership for a longtime, and this is my first MB ever. Can this be covered by MB as a goodwill gesture?
A3. No.
After finding this thread, I emailed them again saying a whole bunch of MB owners have had this problem, and there is even a service bulletin from BM with a new P/N magnet. It was more like a comment. Then they emailed me back saying I needed to call them back. Sigh...
Q1. Is this a known problem to MB?
A1. No.
Q2. Can this part be covered under a emission related items?
A2. No.
Q3. I bought my C230 new with a very high hope of trouble-free reliable ownership for a longtime, and this is my first MB ever. Can this be covered by MB as a goodwill gesture?
A3. No.
After finding this thread, I emailed them again saying a whole bunch of MB owners have had this problem, and there is even a service bulletin from BM with a new P/N magnet. It was more like a comment. Then they emailed me back saying I needed to call them back. Sigh...
Have that in front of you before you call them back.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
2006 C230 & 2002 C230
On my 2nd email to MB corp, I already attached that TSB link and wrote:
"I found that the MB issued a Star Bulletin No. S-B-03.30/08i, attached below, that is exactly describing the problem (Fault Code Scenario 2 on page 4) that my 2006 C230 has been experiencing.
https://mbworld.org/forums/4569933-post2.html
MB has already recognized that the original part design was defective and come out with an improved new part, camshaft adjustment solenoid (A272 05101 77). The bulletin was instructing dealers to replace all 4 magnets."
"I found that the MB issued a Star Bulletin No. S-B-03.30/08i, attached below, that is exactly describing the problem (Fault Code Scenario 2 on page 4) that my 2006 C230 has been experiencing.
https://mbworld.org/forums/4569933-post2.html
MB has already recognized that the original part design was defective and come out with an improved new part, camshaft adjustment solenoid (A272 05101 77). The bulletin was instructing dealers to replace all 4 magnets."
Super Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 64
From: Camas, WA
2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
On my 2nd email to MB corp, I already attached that TSB link and wrote:
"I found that the MB issued a Star Bulletin No. S-B-03.30/08i, attached below, that is exactly describing the problem (Fault Code Scenario 2 on page 4) that my 2006 C230 has been experiencing.
https://mbworld.org/forums/4569933-post2.html
MB has already recognized that the original part design was defective and come out with an improved new part, camshaft adjustment solenoid (A272 05101 77). The bulletin was instructing dealers to replace all 4 magnets."
"I found that the MB issued a Star Bulletin No. S-B-03.30/08i, attached below, that is exactly describing the problem (Fault Code Scenario 2 on page 4) that my 2006 C230 has been experiencing.
https://mbworld.org/forums/4569933-post2.html
MB has already recognized that the original part design was defective and come out with an improved new part, camshaft adjustment solenoid (A272 05101 77). The bulletin was instructing dealers to replace all 4 magnets."
Last edited by johnand; Nov 22, 2011 at 12:30 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
2006 C230 & 2002 C230
I checked my email and actually I did not post the bulletin link. Instead I attached the actual PDF file I saved in my pc.
I am not sure if I want to call them again because I really don't have anything else to say or request. On my 2nd email, I just wanted to express my frustration by letting them know how misleading (knew the problem but wanted to hide) or how ignorant (didn't know about the problem when there was a bulletin) they were.
Anyway I appreciate your work on this issue. This CEL issue was driving me crazy for a while.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: NY
ML350 2008
Got CEL on a trip after filling up the tank and driving for about 4-5 hrs. CEL was on for 2-3 days. Then about 6hrs drive back. The CEL is still on. Next day after driving locally CEL disappeared. Borrowed a scanner, read P0012 A camshaft position timing over-retarded bank 1. Called the dealer today, the girl on phone said since there's no CEL anymore, it was probably lose gas cap and computer "corrected" itself (?) Shall I let it go for now?
Thank you in advance for your help
ML350 2008, 55,000 miles
Thank you in advance for your help
ML350 2008, 55,000 miles
Last edited by MLattached; Dec 2, 2011 at 06:26 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: NY
ML350 2008
Im thinking of cleaning it tomorrow for now. It actually happened to me once before, about 6 months ago. Same route, same place. CEL disappeared the next day after I came back (I didn't scan then). I usually drive locally (2-3 hrs at a time max), so it looks like it only happens after x-hrs of driving. Could that mean anything?
After reading related posts and studying all the diagrams and pics on this forum, I went to a local mechanic and I felt like I knew more about this issue than he did. I thought I'd give it a shot and clean it first. I'll try to get new parts monday
After reading related posts and studying all the diagrams and pics on this forum, I went to a local mechanic and I felt like I knew more about this issue than he did. I thought I'd give it a shot and clean it first. I'll try to get new parts monday
Last edited by MLattached; Dec 2, 2011 at 09:36 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
06 c230 Sport, 03 SRT-4 Mopar Stage 3
Glyn and John, I know we dont know eachother, but I sincerely love you guys...
My 06 c230 was pulling three of the four cam sensor codes and I'm out of warranty, and was just about to go blow tons of money that I dont have lol. But then I decided to keep reading, and you two(and others who contributed) are f'in awesome
. I dont feel like waiting on shipping so i'm going to call the stealership monday to get all four magnets(too bad their service department is closed saturday :/). Oh and I cant forget to thank the feller who suggested a 1/4 12 sided wrench instead of pulling the power steering and stuff, thank you for saving me a huge headache trying to put in the driver's side magnets.
This thread is just packed full of win
My 06 c230 was pulling three of the four cam sensor codes and I'm out of warranty, and was just about to go blow tons of money that I dont have lol. But then I decided to keep reading, and you two(and others who contributed) are f'in awesome. I dont feel like waiting on shipping so i'm going to call the stealership monday to get all four magnets(too bad their service department is closed saturday :/). Oh and I cant forget to thank the feller who suggested a 1/4 12 sided wrench instead of pulling the power steering and stuff, thank you for saving me a huge headache trying to put in the driver's side magnets. This thread is just packed full of win
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: NY
ML350 2008
Changed magnet on intake camshaft bank 1. Feels like i got much more power and the truck feels smoother. No CEL so far. TAHNK YOU very much, guys. I went to a dealer and ind. mechanic a few month ago, not happy with the ride quality, nobody could ID the problem. Replacing the magnet took care of that! I was wandering if i should replace the two magnets on driver's side (i noticed that magnet on exhaust on passenger's side has an updated part #, so I'll leave it alone). You provided me with invaluable info, something that even the dealer could not do
Super Moderator
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,403
Likes: 64
From: Camas, WA
2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
+1 Always a pleasure to help out a fellow member!
Absolutely! I have the other 3 magnets on my bench waiting to go in my car, as I got the P0015 code the other day.
Don't bother cleaning these things. Just replace them and be done with it. I have yet to see anyone have an issue after fitting the new magnets.
Absolutely! I have the other 3 magnets on my bench waiting to go in my car, as I got the P0015 code the other day.
Don't bother cleaning these things. Just replace them and be done with it. I have yet to see anyone have an issue after fitting the new magnets.
