finally dyno results of Kleemann alloy pulley kit vs stock
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
2002 C230 Coupe Black/Charcoal C5 C7 Auto
finally dyno results of Kleemann pulley kit vs stock hp & a/f #s
Okay so some of u guys know I had my Kleemann pulley kit installed about a month ago. I finally got it dynoed today and tried to make sure the environment variables are pretty much identical. The ambient temp was about 70F, sea level: Houston, TX, gas 1/8 tank of 93 octane with full spare in trunk. The vehicle is a 2002 C230k coupe auto with 235/40/17s. Last time the stock dyno yield 165hp and 178ft/lb of torque with A/F ratio 12.6:1 at approx 5500rpm. With the pulley kit the dyno showed a 185hp and 200ft/lb torque with A/F ration 13.9:1 at 5500 rpm meaning a total gain of 20hp and 22ft/lb torque. I calculated that the drivetrain loss with auto was about 15% meaning at crank with pulley I'm putting out about 215hp and 230ft/lb of torque. I'm quite happy with the results and driveability has not been changed noticeably. I talked to the shop guys and they believe that more fuel may yield more hp (as apposed to what some have stated on this forum) so I will try to convince my dealer to change fuel to stage II and run it next time with 105 unleaded gas (hey every little bit helps right :-). As soon as I get a hold of a decent scanner I will scan in the dyno graphs. Also, although my car is a lease I will be looking into an intercooler kit that will not require to modify/change the front bumper and preferable will fit stock piping/plumbing/brackets etc.
Last edited by tberry; Dec 29, 2002 at 11:27 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville Florida
w203 c230K 2002
You can not back into drive train loss a 18 to 20 % loss in more accurate. 165 would net 194 to the crank at 118 %. The renntech intercooler does'nt require any mods to the bunper or mounts, I would not worry about that. We have found that there are cases c230k's that have the a 20 deg cam error mine was one. Stock I only had 157 rwhp the cams being one tooth off = an 20% error. If your coupe is performing under the low 160's rwhp I would have the dealer check it out, it would be a warrenty issue. Complane of a drop off in power in the middle to high rpm range. And sugest that the cam timeing might be checked.
Randy
Randy
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville Florida
w203 c230K 2002
Originally posted by Enze6997
I am no benz expert but couldnt you get some like 80cc injectors or something and just blast the motoro with fuel?
I am no benz expert but couldnt you get some like 80cc injectors or something and just blast the motoro with fuel?
Randy
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
2002 C230 Coupe Black/Charcoal C5 C7 Auto
Originally posted by renncpe
The MB software is very good it will adjust the cycle time of the larger injectors, I think that long term the chip mods will net a better resolute. I have just had mine chiped by Renntech, they moved the rpm gate by 500 rmp's, changed the maps and moved the v-max to 149 mph. The car is runing much stronger now.
Randy
The MB software is very good it will adjust the cycle time of the larger injectors, I think that long term the chip mods will net a better resolute. I have just had mine chiped by Renntech, they moved the rpm gate by 500 rmp's, changed the maps and moved the v-max to 149 mph. The car is runing much stronger now.
Randy
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville Florida
w203 c230K 2002
Originally posted by tberry
Randy how much is the chip and how difficult to install? thanks.
Randy how much is the chip and how difficult to install? thanks.
Randy
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
2002 C230 Coupe Black/Charcoal C5 C7 Auto
Originally posted by renncpe
You can not back into drive train loss a 18 to 20 % loss in more accurate. 165 would net 194 to the crank at 118 %.Randy
You can not back into drive train loss a 18 to 20 % loss in more accurate. 165 would net 194 to the crank at 118 %.Randy
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville Florida
w203 c230K 2002
Originally posted by tberry
165 divided by 194 is 0.85 meaning its 85% of 194hp which translate to about 15% loss from advertised hp to the wheel no?
165 divided by 194 is 0.85 meaning its 85% of 194hp which translate to about 15% loss from advertised hp to the wheel no?
Randy
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,869
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles
GL450, Sienna SE
Originally posted by renncpe
That is what I ment you can't back into the number. 165x 115% is only 189 HP. The loss is a constant not a % of the gain. Car and Driver has writen the loss from the drive train can be as high as 22%, in an auotmatic trans car.
Randy
That is what I ment you can't back into the number. 165x 115% is only 189 HP. The loss is a constant not a % of the gain. Car and Driver has writen the loss from the drive train can be as high as 22%, in an auotmatic trans car.
Randy
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 2
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Why did you only go to 5,500 rpm, is that a limitation of the auto trans? I did my dyno to 6,200 rpm which is where the rev limiter kicks in. You'll see at least another 5hp or so as you approach 6,000 rpm. Actually between 5,500 and 6,000 is will also get a little richer too. Your drive train loss of 15% is fine for a manual tranny car but two low for a auto, should be closer to 18%.
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
If the speedo starts to count on the dyno, the ECU has registrated a fault, and will cut off at 5500 rpm.
Stop the engine, take out the key and restart, then the car can be driven 2-3 minutes on the dyno, then it will happen all over again.
So try again.
Stop the engine, take out the key and restart, then the car can be driven 2-3 minutes on the dyno, then it will happen all over again.
So try again.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 2
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
It may also pay to put the car in "Dyno Mode". Don't remember the sequence of events to make this happen but it's not difficult, just search the forum. Also you may get different results in Winter mode as the tranny starts in 2nd. On manual tranny cars it's usually done in 3rd or 4th gear and this varies from dyno to dyno.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
2002 C230 Coupe Black/Charcoal C5 C7 Auto
i tried to do the 'dyno' mode but when i do the + or - it didnt really idicate anything that it worked (i see the software version and all that). And also, after the dyno mode do i still have to press ESP to 'off' so the little triangle symbol shows up. The dyno was do to the redline, i was talking about the a/f ratio seems to be most lean at about 5500rpm (and you're right buellwinkle later it got richer). I just took the car for the heck of seeing how it does under 'normal' condition. To optimize I may go ahead and get 105 oct gas, maybe stage II fuel (if dealer lets me), then take all possible weight out (I think there's a good 25-30lbs in there), wash car clean of any dirt/grimes (u know like in Gran Turismo where u get about 2-3hp after washing car 
). I'm hoping to hit 190hp and 205 ft/lb torque....after intercooler upgrade it'll be a healthy 200+hp car finally...
$$$$
). I'm hoping to hit 190hp and 205 ft/lb torque....after intercooler upgrade it'll be a healthy 200+hp car finally... $$$$
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 12,403
Likes: 21
From: South Florida
Fast Cars!
Re: finally dyno results of Kleemann pulley kit vs stock hp & a/f #s
Originally posted by tberry
With the pulley kit the dyno showed a 185hp and 200ft/lb torque with A/F ration 13.9:1 at 5500 rpm meaning a total gain of 20hp and 22ft/lb torque.
With the pulley kit the dyno showed a 185hp and 200ft/lb torque with A/F ration 13.9:1 at 5500 rpm meaning a total gain of 20hp and 22ft/lb torque.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 930
Likes: 0
A/F Ratio
As I have been saying here for months: a 13.9:1 A/F is no problem for a modern engine (particularly this version of the M111 engine). In the old days of very high CR, two valve, non-computer controlled engines a 12:1 ratio gave the best power with no regard for emissions (this is a sweeping generalization and not gospel).
The idea is that its safer to be rich than lean if you have NO IDEA what the A/F is or any ability to monitor motor function.
Many posters here have set to Stage II and NO POWER gain. If having a 12:1 A/F some how makes you feel better, then by all means set to Stage II (enjoy the reductuion in economy as well).
The idea is that its safer to be rich than lean if you have NO IDEA what the A/F is or any ability to monitor motor function.
Many posters here have set to Stage II and NO POWER gain. If having a 12:1 A/F some how makes you feel better, then by all means set to Stage II (enjoy the reductuion in economy as well).
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
2002 C230 Coupe Black/Charcoal C5 C7 Auto
Kleemann,
Thanks for the reply. I dont really care to change the fuel setting (or go through that hassle with the dealer) if the car is in no danger (I only plan to keep this car about 3 more years). I also understand you are developing some sort of fuel regulator for C230k 2.3L coupe as well as a screw type superchgr. I also read the article in Benzo (got my first issue) about you guys. Good to know I'm buying from a company with heritege and history
Thanks for the reply. I dont really care to change the fuel setting (or go through that hassle with the dealer) if the car is in no danger (I only plan to keep this car about 3 more years). I also understand you are developing some sort of fuel regulator for C230k 2.3L coupe as well as a screw type superchgr. I also read the article in Benzo (got my first issue) about you guys. Good to know I'm buying from a company with heritege and history
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 2
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Re: A/F Ratio
Originally posted by KLEEMANN
Many posters here have set to Stage II and NO POWER gain. If having a 12:1 A/F some how makes you feel better, then by all means set to Stage II (enjoy the reductuion in economy as well).
Many posters here have set to Stage II and NO POWER gain. If having a 12:1 A/F some how makes you feel better, then by all means set to Stage II (enjoy the reductuion in economy as well).
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Re: A/F Ratio
Originally posted by Buellwinkle
I have mine set to stage II and get better or same gas mileage as before. When I had it set to stage III/91 octane I got significantly higher mileage up to about 37-38mpg at 72mph but at a 17hp loss. This may come in handy as problems in the middle east and Venzuala escalate.
I have mine set to stage II and get better or same gas mileage as before. When I had it set to stage III/91 octane I got significantly higher mileage up to about 37-38mpg at 72mph but at a 17hp loss. This may come in handy as problems in the middle east and Venzuala escalate.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 2
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Brandon (Kleemann) and Randy (Renncpe) both recommended Stage II a few months ago. I don't know if anyone has done before/after dynos with stage II to prove either way if it provide more/less power, any changes in a/f ratio.
