2002 C240 Engine Sludge
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2009
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MB C240
2002 C240 Engine Sludge
Hey Guys,
My mechanic contacted the warranty company. He told them about the white smoke coming from my car and they agreed to come back out to take alook but he has to tear down the engine.
He said that those *%& (choice words) at the dealership did not mention to him that I had white smoke coming out of the car. Rather that I came in for my check engine light, not accelerating and a leak.
Of course they had to try to justify why the all of sudden came up with issues with my transmisiion and power steering pump when they shouldnt have been snoopng.
Go freakin figure. Anywho lets keep our fingers crossed that they will see this as a mechanical failure and pay for the head gasket, seals, valves and guides.
Will keep you posted on my saga.
Nicki
My mechanic contacted the warranty company. He told them about the white smoke coming from my car and they agreed to come back out to take alook but he has to tear down the engine.
He said that those *%& (choice words) at the dealership did not mention to him that I had white smoke coming out of the car. Rather that I came in for my check engine light, not accelerating and a leak.
Of course they had to try to justify why the all of sudden came up with issues with my transmisiion and power steering pump when they shouldnt have been snoopng.
Go freakin figure. Anywho lets keep our fingers crossed that they will see this as a mechanical failure and pay for the head gasket, seals, valves and guides.
Will keep you posted on my saga.
Nicki
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
MB C240
2002 C240 Engine Sludge
Hi Guys!
The warranty company sent out their adjuster but they have agreed to cover the power steering pump but nothing with the engine.
I spoke to the claims dept and they are citing that the mechanic did not "demonstrate failure and also due to engine sludge as the problem."
My mechanic is reporting that engine sludge was not the issue for the white smoke given there was no damage to my camshaft and my car never overheated. Also the oil was coming out of the guides suggesting problems with valve cover and seals (right?).
I am requesting they send me the claim denial in writing. I want to pursue this legally but dont have the money to pay for a lawyer since that money could go towards paying to get my car fixed.
Does anyone have any cheap recommendations on how to nudge them to accept my claim?
I was thinking the better business bureau or do we have some legal entity that regulates warranty adherence?
I am so tired of the little man getting screwed at the expense of big business! As we can see it IS the little man that makes the world go round.
Thanks for any advice!!!!!
Nicki
The warranty company sent out their adjuster but they have agreed to cover the power steering pump but nothing with the engine.
I spoke to the claims dept and they are citing that the mechanic did not "demonstrate failure and also due to engine sludge as the problem."
My mechanic is reporting that engine sludge was not the issue for the white smoke given there was no damage to my camshaft and my car never overheated. Also the oil was coming out of the guides suggesting problems with valve cover and seals (right?).
I am requesting they send me the claim denial in writing. I want to pursue this legally but dont have the money to pay for a lawyer since that money could go towards paying to get my car fixed.
Does anyone have any cheap recommendations on how to nudge them to accept my claim?
I was thinking the better business bureau or do we have some legal entity that regulates warranty adherence?
I am so tired of the little man getting screwed at the expense of big business! As we can see it IS the little man that makes the world go round.
Thanks for any advice!!!!!
Nicki
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 219
Likes: 1
From: Kansas City, MO
'05 C230K SS
Getting a formal, written denial of your warranty claim is a necessary next step. They should have no trouble providing this to you if that is their final decision. Try to get them to put the reason(s) for the denial in as much detail as possible.
Once you get that, then BBB and probably the Florida Attorney General are good steps. But most likely, the only way you'll get any satisfaction is to file a case in small claims court. There won't be enough money at issue for any attorney to bother with it, unless you're willing to pay the attorney by the hour...at which point your legal bill will very quickly exceed your engine rebuilding bill. You're hoping that the warranty company will get served with the summons in a small claims case, and figure that by the time they pay their own attorney to deal with it, they might as well just pay out on your claim.
In Florida, there is a $5,000 maximum in each case. Here is a link to the Dade County small claims court:
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/dadecoc/Small_Claims.asp
Here is a link to a PDF on how to navigate the Small Claims Court:
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/dadec...s-Brochure.pdf
Dade County is also good enough to include a fillable PDF Statement of Claim form:
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/dadec...laim-05-06.pdf
You'll probably need to check "Other" and explain that your case is essentially a claim for breach of contract by the warranty company. Small Claims Court and the judges that preside are used to dealing with non-attorneys, so it shouldn't be too intimidating for you. The entire process is geared toward smaller disputes that don't necessitate experienced attorneys for either side. Good luck.
Once you get that, then BBB and probably the Florida Attorney General are good steps. But most likely, the only way you'll get any satisfaction is to file a case in small claims court. There won't be enough money at issue for any attorney to bother with it, unless you're willing to pay the attorney by the hour...at which point your legal bill will very quickly exceed your engine rebuilding bill. You're hoping that the warranty company will get served with the summons in a small claims case, and figure that by the time they pay their own attorney to deal with it, they might as well just pay out on your claim.
In Florida, there is a $5,000 maximum in each case. Here is a link to the Dade County small claims court:
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/dadecoc/Small_Claims.asp
Here is a link to a PDF on how to navigate the Small Claims Court:
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/dadec...s-Brochure.pdf
Dade County is also good enough to include a fillable PDF Statement of Claim form:
http://www.miami-dadeclerk.com/dadec...laim-05-06.pdf
You'll probably need to check "Other" and explain that your case is essentially a claim for breach of contract by the warranty company. Small Claims Court and the judges that preside are used to dealing with non-attorneys, so it shouldn't be too intimidating for you. The entire process is geared toward smaller disputes that don't necessitate experienced attorneys for either side. Good luck.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,539
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From: Southern Cal
a C32 AMG & S-Works Tarmac
Hi Guys!
The warranty company sent out their adjuster but they have agreed to cover the power steering pump but nothing with the engine.
I spoke to the claims dept and they are citing that the mechanic did not "demonstrate failure and also due to engine sludge as the problem."
My mechanic is reporting that engine sludge was not the issue for the white smoke given there was no damage to my camshaft and my car never overheated. Also the oil was coming out of the guides suggesting problems with valve cover and seals (right?).
I am requesting they send me the claim denial in writing. I want to pursue this legally but dont have the money to pay for a lawyer since that money could go towards paying to get my car fixed.
Does anyone have any cheap recommendations on how to nudge them to accept my claim?
I was thinking the better business bureau or do we have some legal entity that regulates warranty adherence?
I am so tired of the little man getting screwed at the expense of big business! As we can see it IS the little man that makes the world go round.
Thanks for any advice!!!!!
Nicki
The warranty company sent out their adjuster but they have agreed to cover the power steering pump but nothing with the engine.
I spoke to the claims dept and they are citing that the mechanic did not "demonstrate failure and also due to engine sludge as the problem."
My mechanic is reporting that engine sludge was not the issue for the white smoke given there was no damage to my camshaft and my car never overheated. Also the oil was coming out of the guides suggesting problems with valve cover and seals (right?).
I am requesting they send me the claim denial in writing. I want to pursue this legally but dont have the money to pay for a lawyer since that money could go towards paying to get my car fixed.
Does anyone have any cheap recommendations on how to nudge them to accept my claim?
I was thinking the better business bureau or do we have some legal entity that regulates warranty adherence?
I am so tired of the little man getting screwed at the expense of big business! As we can see it IS the little man that makes the world go round.
Thanks for any advice!!!!!
Nicki
The BBB is just a toothless dog. You can complain to them but all they do is post an open complaint on their web site and send a letter to the offending party. I wouldn't waste my time there.
With regards to an attorney, I don't know how much they offer in this sort of case but, in my line of work I keep Pre-Paid Legal (google them) on my side. I think I pay about $15 per month to have a national law firm on "retainer" for me. They do some basic services for free and offer discounts for others. And, no, I don't have any affiliation with them accept as a customer.
Good luck with this one. I feel for you.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,212
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
Nicki,
The BBB is just a toothless dog. You can complain to them but all they do is post an open complaint on their web site and send a letter to the offending party. I wouldn't waste my time there.
With regards to an attorney, I don't know how much they offer in this sort of case but, in my line of work I keep Pre-Paid Legal (google them) on my side. I think I pay about $15 per month to have a national law firm on "retainer" for me. They do some basic services for free and offer discounts for others. And, no, I don't have any affiliation with them accept as a customer.
Good luck with this one. I feel for you.
The BBB is just a toothless dog. You can complain to them but all they do is post an open complaint on their web site and send a letter to the offending party. I wouldn't waste my time there.
With regards to an attorney, I don't know how much they offer in this sort of case but, in my line of work I keep Pre-Paid Legal (google them) on my side. I think I pay about $15 per month to have a national law firm on "retainer" for me. They do some basic services for free and offer discounts for others. And, no, I don't have any affiliation with them accept as a customer.
Good luck with this one. I feel for you.
+1 for prepaid legal. However, that won't help you now. I would just do small claims court. To prove there is no sludge, your mechanic should take pics during tear down.
E
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Nicki - you need a decent size sample of that sludge & oil & get it to Blackstone for analysis. Tell them your story & tell them you need their report to state that the cause of the sludge was coolant getting into your oil. (if that's what the analysis shows). Then you have something to fight with. I'm sure that you warrantee covers blown head gaskets - not so? If there is no sludge then you want them to state that!!!
The valve guide oil leak is almost certainly hardened stem seals. (a mechanical failure)
Listen to Ed - get pics.
Either way the failure is mechanical & has nothing to do with violation of terms of the warrantee. Take no nonesense with these sharks ---- I wanted to use more appropriate wording
The valve guide oil leak is almost certainly hardened stem seals. (a mechanical failure)
Listen to Ed - get pics.
Either way the failure is mechanical & has nothing to do with violation of terms of the warrantee. Take no nonesense with these sharks ---- I wanted to use more appropriate wording
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Feb 23, 2009 at 03:37 PM.
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From: CALI, bayarea
01 c240, 98 c230 & 89 240sx
Sorry mleskovar - I did not get your post on screen when I returned to the thread to answer - all spot on - I worry that the wrong oil might have been used but the black sludge era is behind us now - I would like to know whether there is mayonaise under the oil filler cap - see my post for the rest above.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Sign of water in your oil. Either you have a coolant leak or the car does not run fully warmed up for long enough. The combustion process produces water & you require to run fully warmed up for long enough to evapourate it out of the engine breather. In excessive short runs the water content in your sump can get up to 6 or 7%
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Yes, it means the oil has been contaminated with coolant/water. Look down into the oil fill hole and see if there's more sludge in the upper head area. If you do a lot of short trips you may see some paste under the cap even without there being a problem (other than not operating the motor at a high enough temperature long enough to evaporate the water out). If everything is coated with the paste then you may have a leak between the coolant and oiling systems. If you're worried, take a good picture of the underside of the cap and looking down the fill hole with the cap off and post them.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
If you are using Mobil 1 it is extremely unusual to see this emulsion formation. Synthetics don't emulsify easily & modern oils are formulated to combat low temperature sludge.
My 240 does too many short trips and there is not a hint of mayonaise under the cap.
My 240 does too many short trips and there is not a hint of mayonaise under the cap.
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From: CALI, bayarea
01 c240, 98 c230 & 89 240sx
thank you both for the quick replies . my car most of the time just sit and park outside (suck no more garage)
since 05 i only put 5000 miles on it
it hit 100,000miles also change the oil 3weeks ago.
since 05 i only put 5000 miles on it it hit 100,000miles also change the oil 3weeks ago.
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From: CALI, bayarea
01 c240, 98 c230 & 89 240sx
Glyn I did use MOBIL 0W 40.. for about 2 weeks i left that coupling that attaches to the intake head for the vaccum hose unhook becuz it was cracked could that have cause moisture to get insde and plus the weather here was raining and in the 40 -45 temperature
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
All that does not help - Take a pic & post it - clean the cap & take the car for a long run. If you changed 3 weeks ago there won't be much water present. If you have only done 5000 miles since 2005 I think your lack of driving is the problem so don't panic. How long had the oil been in the engine before the latest change? If you are going to run such little mileage you must change oil once a year maximum.
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From: CALI, bayarea
01 c240, 98 c230 & 89 240sx
oil was in there 3 1/2 yrs before the oil change. it was mustard looking @ first, since the oil change it became mayonaise looking, will post pics this weekend. also is there any cleaning agent i can put in the oil on my next oil change? (ex. seafoam, amsoil engine flush or the old school way some kind of atf transmission fluid)
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I'm from the oil industry & our attitude to flushing is that the safe way is to flush with engine oil. i.e do one very short change.
I know nothing about products like sea foam - ask locals
I know nothing about products like sea foam - ask locals
Thread Starter
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MB C240
2002 C240 engine sludge
Hi Guys,
I am going to followup with the suggestions for a sludge analysis and file a claim for breach of contract in small claims court.
Guys thanks SOOOO very much for your help in this process.
Nicki
I am going to followup with the suggestions for a sludge analysis and file a claim for breach of contract in small claims court.
Guys thanks SOOOO very much for your help in this process.
Nicki
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Super Moderator
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Only 1 picture - hard to see but it's none too clean down there. You really have to change your oil more often with the low mileage you are doing - 3 1/2 years is way too long.
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From: CALI, bayarea
01 c240, 98 c230 & 89 240sx
oil cap picture, i've been taking it for a drive and the mayonaise paste seems to be less than before. planning to taking it for a long drive and changing the oil again soon. thanx GLYN!!!
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
That's sensible. I think the service cycle the car sees is where your problem lies.
