Very rough start-up/idle in the mornings or when cold and CEL?
12-28-2009, 05:05 PM
#202
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Thread Starter
Respectfully suggest a thorough inspection before throwing any parts at it.
After 80,000+ miles, our chassis is inevitably in need of at least some attention.
Serendipitous timing, Phil.
Rummaging through recent EPC purchase orders..
torque link bushing: 211 333 11 14 (lower)
cross link bushing: 203 333 09 14 (upper)
anti-roll bar link: 203 320 29 89 (12mm, for sport suspension code 486)
anti-roll bar bushing: 203 323 22 85 (22mm, measure bar and validate mounting bracket configuration via VIN before ordering)
LH outer tie-rod end: 203 330 39 03
RH outer tie-rod end: 203 330 40 03
inner tie-rods: 230 338 00 15 (requires two 203 460 23 00 boot/seal kits) note the “230” prefix is not my dyslexia
camber/caster adjustment retrofit bolts: 220 330 01 71 (optional, four required)
Book time for their concurrent R&R is approximately seven hours, as several of the tasks tend to overlap.
Excludes alignment, but we’ve Johnson’s expertise for that anyway.
Only real challenge is pressing the bushings. Local Michelin dealer inexpensively sublet that portion.
Compiling a comprehensive DIY for suspension refurbishment. It’s not quite ready for prime time though.
Eyeballed yet another round of sexy Lemförder hardware under the Christmas tree awaiting installation..
After 80,000+ miles, our chassis is inevitably in need of at least some attention.
Serendipitous timing, Phil.
Rummaging through recent EPC purchase orders..
torque link bushing: 211 333 11 14 (lower)
cross link bushing: 203 333 09 14 (upper)
anti-roll bar link: 203 320 29 89 (12mm, for sport suspension code 486)
anti-roll bar bushing: 203 323 22 85 (22mm, measure bar and validate mounting bracket configuration via VIN before ordering)
LH outer tie-rod end: 203 330 39 03
RH outer tie-rod end: 203 330 40 03
inner tie-rods: 230 338 00 15 (requires two 203 460 23 00 boot/seal kits) note the “230” prefix is not my dyslexia
camber/caster adjustment retrofit bolts: 220 330 01 71 (optional, four required)
Book time for their concurrent R&R is approximately seven hours, as several of the tasks tend to overlap.
Excludes alignment, but we’ve Johnson’s expertise for that anyway.
Only real challenge is pressing the bushings. Local Michelin dealer inexpensively sublet that portion.
Compiling a comprehensive DIY for suspension refurbishment. It’s not quite ready for prime time though.
Eyeballed yet another round of sexy Lemförder hardware under the Christmas tree awaiting installation..
So, my mom has the week off for vacation and I asked her to bring it to this independent MB shop that I used to take my C280 to back in the day. They were swamped (likely b/c everyone was on vacation as well) and weren't able to put it on a rack. The owner did take the car out for a drive and said that it didn't handle out of the ordinary and he didn't hear much... They said that they need to put it on the rack and that I need to bring it back.
12-28-2009, 05:07 PM
#203
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
So this Saturday morning, when I first started the car, it gave a red screen "BATTERY/ALTERNATOR VISIT WORKSHOP".
I attributed it to being cold and then I turned it off and restarted the car. The message was gone and has never resurfaced.
The battery was replaced under warranty about 2 years and 30k miles ago. So, I fired up the car in dyno mode and at start it was about 12.4 - 12.6 V, at idle it was at 13.2 - 13.4 V and while moving, it was at 14.0 - 14.4 V. That seems about normal, right?
I attributed it to being cold and then I turned it off and restarted the car. The message was gone and has never resurfaced.
The battery was replaced under warranty about 2 years and 30k miles ago. So, I fired up the car in dyno mode and at start it was about 12.4 - 12.6 V, at idle it was at 13.2 - 13.4 V and while moving, it was at 14.0 - 14.4 V. That seems about normal, right?
12-28-2009, 05:15 PM
#204
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2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
So this Saturday morning, when I first started the car, it gave a red screen "BATTERY/ALTERNATOR VISIT WORKSHOP".
I attributed it to being cold and then I turned it off and restarted the car. The message was gone and has never resurfaced.
The battery was replaced under warranty about 2 years and 30k miles ago. So, I fired up the car in dyno mode and at start it was about 12.4 - 12.6 V, at idle it was at 13.2 - 13.4 V and while moving, it was at 14.0 - 14.4 V. That seems about normal, right?
I attributed it to being cold and then I turned it off and restarted the car. The message was gone and has never resurfaced.
The battery was replaced under warranty about 2 years and 30k miles ago. So, I fired up the car in dyno mode and at start it was about 12.4 - 12.6 V, at idle it was at 13.2 - 13.4 V and while moving, it was at 14.0 - 14.4 V. That seems about normal, right?
Even though you are likely to have many more months with your battery, the low voltage is an indication that your battery had a low voltage at startup.
12-28-2009, 05:24 PM
#205
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Thread Starter
since the battery's voltage is increasing when it's driving, I would assume that the alternator is doing its job.
12-28-2009, 05:59 PM
#206
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My car has never given me a low voltage warning, either. Not even at start-up.
12-28-2009, 06:54 PM
#207
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2007 ML500
I got the message once last year and again this year. Both times were during the coldest day of the year at -40C. I imagine it's just the extra load on the battery from the cold start.
01-02-2010, 09:48 PM
#208
Super Moderator
Deferred repairs are false economy, but circumstances forced my hand.
It’s finally motoring down the road clunk/pop-free and hustling through the twisty bits with markedly improved composure.
Rather like rolling back the odometer.
Know you’ve an open invitation to my workshop, Phil.
01-06-2010, 01:03 AM
#210
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CLK500 SPORT
long read but help me understand the same code i got. had this code happen on monday and took it to the dealer....P0456.....fuel filler neck fitting part was $469....not covered under cpo warrenty...turned out to be a 700 fix...
01-06-2010, 02:22 PM
#211
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Thread Starter
out of curiosity, why didn't the CPO warranty cover it?
01-25-2010, 03:27 AM
#212
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Firstly, I want to thank John, John, Glyn, Karo, Matt and all you guys for the help that you've provided in determining my problems and thanks for all your hospitality.
Well, with regard to the whirring noise, I noticed that it wasn't coming from the rear. It was actually coming from the front of the car. It turns out that my passenger side front wheel was slightly bent. When it got fixed, it appeared that the noise ceased (I'll go on more about it below).
As for the suspension, I ended up taking the car to Serge at Hyevon Motors. He put it on the lift and we did a total walk around. First, we checked the flex discs. They were fine, the dealer was bull****ting me apparently, there were no cracks or even any signs of cracking. The transmission mount was still good as well.
It looked like the front end was ok... up until we found this on the passenger side:
It looks like that whatever bent my passenger side front wheel also did some damage to the control arm...
Since we had to replace the passenger's side control/thrust arm, I made the call just to replace the driver's side as well. And, since Serge wasn't going to charge me any extra and with the car having 83k miles on it, I figured that we might as well replace the upper and lower control arm bushings and the tie-rods (since they were only $36 a piece) as well.
So, this Saturday I brought the car in to Serge and dropped it off in the morning for a whole list of repairs:
1. R&R control arms and upper and lower bushings;
2. R&R tie-rods;
3. R&R fuel filler neck;
4. R&R front brake pads; and
5. Service A
He ended up finding a coolant hose that was leaking (a very small leak) as well, which he replaced. Aside from that, there were no other leaks.
What we also noticed was that the part number on the new fuel filler neck was different from the old fuel filler neck. Apparently MB updated the part.
With regard to the slight "pop", Serge found out that it was coming from the steering column. He said that it was a steering angle sensor and that it shouldn't be an issue and that if it does go out, it'll give an error.
Serge worked on my car for pretty much the entire day. When I picked it up, the steering felt much better. There's no more groaning noise, it isn't sloppy, there's no more play and it feels a tad bit more firm and sure-footed.
Well, the car is scheduled for an alignment tomorrow morning and hopefully that will resolve everything... for now
Thanks again guys.
Oh and Serge at Hyevon definitely gets my recommendation. Not only are his rates very competitive and fair, but he really takes pride in his work. He makes sure that things are done right. He pretty much worked on my car the entire day and made sure not to accept any other appointments that day so that he could devote it to working on my car. He has excellent customer service and is great guy--no bull****ting, he'll tell you straight-up. He performed the work on the leaking coolant hose gratis. What I like best about Serge is that he's friendly and he'll cater to your schedule--when he gives you a time estimate, he sticks to his word. He comes highly recommended.
Here are Serge and John getting ready to work on it:
Dropping it off in the morning at Hyevon:
Well, with regard to the whirring noise, I noticed that it wasn't coming from the rear. It was actually coming from the front of the car. It turns out that my passenger side front wheel was slightly bent. When it got fixed, it appeared that the noise ceased (I'll go on more about it below).
As for the suspension, I ended up taking the car to Serge at Hyevon Motors. He put it on the lift and we did a total walk around. First, we checked the flex discs. They were fine, the dealer was bull****ting me apparently, there were no cracks or even any signs of cracking. The transmission mount was still good as well.
It looked like the front end was ok... up until we found this on the passenger side:
It looks like that whatever bent my passenger side front wheel also did some damage to the control arm...
Since we had to replace the passenger's side control/thrust arm, I made the call just to replace the driver's side as well. And, since Serge wasn't going to charge me any extra and with the car having 83k miles on it, I figured that we might as well replace the upper and lower control arm bushings and the tie-rods (since they were only $36 a piece) as well.
So, this Saturday I brought the car in to Serge and dropped it off in the morning for a whole list of repairs:
1. R&R control arms and upper and lower bushings;
2. R&R tie-rods;
3. R&R fuel filler neck;
4. R&R front brake pads; and
5. Service A
He ended up finding a coolant hose that was leaking (a very small leak) as well, which he replaced. Aside from that, there were no other leaks.
What we also noticed was that the part number on the new fuel filler neck was different from the old fuel filler neck. Apparently MB updated the part.
With regard to the slight "pop", Serge found out that it was coming from the steering column. He said that it was a steering angle sensor and that it shouldn't be an issue and that if it does go out, it'll give an error.
Serge worked on my car for pretty much the entire day. When I picked it up, the steering felt much better. There's no more groaning noise, it isn't sloppy, there's no more play and it feels a tad bit more firm and sure-footed.
Well, the car is scheduled for an alignment tomorrow morning and hopefully that will resolve everything... for now
Thanks again guys.
Oh and Serge at Hyevon definitely gets my recommendation. Not only are his rates very competitive and fair, but he really takes pride in his work. He makes sure that things are done right. He pretty much worked on my car the entire day and made sure not to accept any other appointments that day so that he could devote it to working on my car. He has excellent customer service and is great guy--no bull****ting, he'll tell you straight-up. He performed the work on the leaking coolant hose gratis. What I like best about Serge is that he's friendly and he'll cater to your schedule--when he gives you a time estimate, he sticks to his word. He comes highly recommended.
Here are Serge and John getting ready to work on it:
Dropping it off in the morning at Hyevon:
01-25-2010, 04:06 AM
#214
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
it also has a good amount of sentimental value, it was the first car I really dived into modding and doing stuff myself and I met a lot of great people that I'm proud to call my friends because of it.
01-25-2010, 04:22 AM
#215
MBWorld Fanatic!
Oh I get that, Phil. I wouldn't trade my C230 in on a 135i, either. When picking up a 135i, I had a decision to make.. Which to trade, the 05 C230 or the 08 G37 coupe? The decision could not have been easier. Lots of people would read that and say my choice made no sense - but to me it does. The C230 has been a fantastic car to me and its quirks were a lot more endearing than the G37's flaws (and believe me, there were many).
01-25-2010, 07:50 AM
#216
Super Moderator
Indeed good news Phil! Pleased you kept her - No more EECS codes?
No flex disc problem!!! That's bad! - Good for you though. I think a visual check with the service advisor or manager is key. I know where you will be taking your car next time it requires fettling.
No flex disc problem!!! That's bad! - Good for you though. I think a visual check with the service advisor or manager is key. I know where you will be taking your car next time it requires fettling.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 01-25-2010 at 07:56 AM.
02-01-2010, 02:25 AM
#217
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hey Phil... dragging this back up. In the past 4 or 5 days, my C230 is making a single, solitary "pop" from what seems like the steering system when I first turn the wheel to the right after the car has sat for a long period of time. Is this the same sort of pop noise that you were having? I have no groaning noises, but the suspension in the front is making some noises over speed-bumps and stuff as I expect at 74,000 miles.
It also took my car much longer to reach normal operating temperature today.. but there is no mystery about what causes this as its a common failure on these cars.
It also took my car much longer to reach normal operating temperature today.. but there is no mystery about what causes this as its a common failure on these cars.
02-01-2010, 02:47 AM
#218
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Hey Phil... dragging this back up. In the past 4 or 5 days, my C230 is making a single, solitary "pop" from what seems like the steering system when I first turn the wheel to the right after the car has sat for a long period of time. Is this the same sort of pop noise that you were having? I have no groaning noises, but the suspension in the front is making some noises over speed-bumps and stuff as I expect at 74,000 miles.
It also took my car much longer to reach normal operating temperature today.. but there is no mystery about what causes this as its a common failure on these cars.
It also took my car much longer to reach normal operating temperature today.. but there is no mystery about what causes this as its a common failure on these cars.
Oh and after a week and one tank of gas, the CEL has not returned!
02-01-2010, 03:05 AM
#219
MBWorld Fanatic!
I guess I'll not stress over it. I'll mention it to my mechanic, but the thermostat will have to come first. I just wonder how a sensor could cause such a noise..
It's good that your EECS code is gone. I hope my car got the updated fuel filler neck, too. A week and ONE tank of gas? - I filled up on Saturday night and the car is saying I have 8 miles till empty right now.
It's good that your EECS code is gone. I hope my car got the updated fuel filler neck, too. A week and ONE tank of gas?
- I filled up on Saturday night and the car is saying I have 8 miles till empty right now.
03-21-2010, 04:14 PM
#220
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
I took the car into Hyevon on Saturday for a transmission fluid flush, replace the 13-pin connector (just since they were going to be working in the area and Serge wasn't going to charge me to change it out), and replace the transmission mount.
Well, the vibrating whirring noise returned shortly after I had the front bushings/control arms replaced. So, I took Matt's advice above and had Serge replace the transmission mount (the part was cheap enough, the car has 86k miles on it and Serge said it would take him about 10 minutes to install and he wasn't going to charge me extra for it).
Well, the transmission mount fixed the noise. I drove the car for about 140 miles yesterday and got on it and there was no noise. I also noticed that the car may have tightened up a bit and that the handling was improved. Replacing the transmission mount did more to help the car out than my front suspension refurb.
For anyone that has a high mileage 203, I think replacing the transmission mount has to be the best bang for the buck out there.
Not only have I been getting this message intermittently, but Drex has as well (his is coming on a bit more often than mine). Things to note are that Drex and I both got our batteries replaced within a few weeks of each other about 2 years ago.
Serge checked the car's charge and he said that it was charging fine. There were no codes in STAR as well. He thinks that the battery is slowly dying...
Hey Phil, can't help you with the steering one but I have some input about the other noise. The vibrating, whirring noise under acceleration and especially on inclines is MOST likely a collapsed transmission mount. This happened on my car once under warranty and I'm starting to get the noise again at times now. It's like $28 from RMeuropean.
Good luck on the other noise. Please keep us posted. I'm at 70k on my 2005 and I don't think you're that far ahead of me.
Good luck on the other noise. Please keep us posted. I'm at 70k on my 2005 and I don't think you're that far ahead of me.
Well, the transmission mount fixed the noise. I drove the car for about 140 miles yesterday and got on it and there was no noise. I also noticed that the car may have tightened up a bit and that the handling was improved. Replacing the transmission mount did more to help the car out than my front suspension refurb.
For anyone that has a high mileage 203, I think replacing the transmission mount has to be the best bang for the buck out there.
So this Saturday morning, when I first started the car, it gave a red screen "BATTERY/ALTERNATOR VISIT WORKSHOP".
I attributed it to being cold and then I turned it off and restarted the car. The message was gone and has never resurfaced.
The battery was replaced under warranty about 2 years and 30k miles ago. So, I fired up the car in dyno mode and at start it was about 12.4 - 12.6 V, at idle it was at 13.2 - 13.4 V and while moving, it was at 14.0 - 14.4 V. That seems about normal, right?
I attributed it to being cold and then I turned it off and restarted the car. The message was gone and has never resurfaced.
The battery was replaced under warranty about 2 years and 30k miles ago. So, I fired up the car in dyno mode and at start it was about 12.4 - 12.6 V, at idle it was at 13.2 - 13.4 V and while moving, it was at 14.0 - 14.4 V. That seems about normal, right?
Serge checked the car's charge and he said that it was charging fine. There were no codes in STAR as well. He thinks that the battery is slowly dying...
08-04-2013, 02:10 AM
#221
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
So, I replaced my TB in 2009 because of the rough idle issue.
About a year ago, the rough idle came back. I found a used TB cleaned it and put it in. Rough idle is gone now. However, I noticed that my old TB had some oil and dirt in it. I'm not sure what caused it, but I would venture to say that that may be why the second TB failed...
About a year ago, the rough idle came back. I found a used TB cleaned it and put it in. Rough idle is gone now. However, I noticed that my old TB had some oil and dirt in it. I'm not sure what caused it, but I would venture to say that that may be why the second TB failed...
09-10-2014, 03:11 AM
#222
Senior Member
Thanks nlpamg for posting your experiences with your trouble. Just wanted to share that mine ended up being my plug wires. I made a thread that may help some others before getting to the throttle body and actuator -- https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...old-fixed.html
05-14-2015, 09:26 AM
#223
Member
Just read through all 9 pages. It would be handy if the moderator can put krazzdav's post about a summation at the top of the first of the nine pages because this is a nice thread.
04-02-2019, 10:13 AM
#224
MBWorld Fanatic!
Phil - Darn thing. There is no doubt that you have a minor leak somewhere in the EECS. It's a minor thing but you don't want CELs on. Just cancel it & see if it returns which I suspect it will. When you do the throttle body with splinter you can check the piping that end. The dealer has smoke tested & found nothing. I hope they did it under slight pressure as required?? It could well be the gas cap seal or control valve playing up. Do you have a buddy with a similar car that would be prepared to swap gas caps for a day?. If he get's a code & you don't you have the answer. You can now cancel his code for him. The little scanner you bought is just fine. I hate throwing parts at things until I know what's wrong. I do suspect the cap but it might just be a loose or cracked hose - They have replaced the charcoal canister. I don't know what method they used to check the EECS - If they used a unit that smokes via the fuel fill pipe then they did not check the cap. The ones I'm familiar with tap into the EECS pipework so they do check the cap. It is significant that it happened after a refuel because that's when you give the evapourative control system a hard time. On no account use compressed air to check the system - it's dangerous! Is it more inclined to trigger a code with a full tank than an approaching empty one?
The good news is at least that the vehicle is running well - If the charcoal canister was saturated it would cause the vehicle to run a bit rich.
I would wait until you clean the throttle body with splinter. If the problem persists after that you need to either go back to the dealer & tell them they messed up with the EECS or throw a new fuel cap at the problem.
Good luck
The good news is at least that the vehicle is running well - If the charcoal canister was saturated it would cause the vehicle to run a bit rich.
I would wait until you clean the throttle body with splinter. If the problem persists after that you need to either go back to the dealer & tell them they messed up with the EECS or throw a new fuel cap at the problem.
Good luck
some people have said im getting these codes because of my recent exhaust and intake mods...not sure i agree
06-09-2019, 07:01 PM
#225
I only tried the K&N once on a car that was running great but due for an air-filter change. I didn't notice and increase in performance after installed the KN, but it ran fine until time to clean and re-oil the filter. I followed the instructions but the engine died shortly after installing the cleaned filter and refused to start. I replaced the KN with a regular dry filter and drove for the car for many years after that, but it never ran the same. Intermittent problems with rough idle etc. Cleaned everything and replaced many parts and some twice but never found the problem.
