ichibans13.5

here is the problem- when the car is cold (and i mean until you visibly see the coolant temp start going up on the gauge cluster), anytime it is placed from park into R or D then whole motor shakes, rpms drop and makes a loud noise and the motor wants to push you forward as to not stall, i noticed if the car is on snow or ice even with the brakes on, the back tires will still be moving pushing you around with the front tires locked up. Finally last night it threw its first CEL. I also notices that the purge valve ticks noticably loud on a cold start. the car takes about 5 mins to heat up when it is 25 degrees out and the thermostat seems to be working fine but i could be wrong.

here are the codes scanned through a snap on solous pro with euro adapter
p2001 - m16/6 registered as throttle valve actuator
p2004- b11/4 registered as coolant temp sensor
p2013 - b18 registered as altitude pressure sensor
p2015 - Y58/1 registered as purge control valve
p201B - registered as misfire

here is a list of things recently done to try and solve problem
1) changed supercharger tensioner pulley and belt
2) cleaned MAF
3) removed throttle body and cleaned
4) seafoam sucked through vacuum line to help clean carbon build up
5) fuel system cleaner added to gas
6) new oem spark plugs
7) bought oem tranny tool to check fluid- fluid levels were fine and did not appear to be any glycol.
8) sprayed brake cleaner over all vacuum lines to check for leak- idle did not change so i believe there is no vacuum leak.
9) changed coolant temp sensor with oem (before throwing a code)
10) checked ecu and electrical lines for oil- they were fine

old spark plugs looked great when i pulled them out with 80k on them, didnt appear to be running lean or rich. any help would be greatly appreciated and if any data is needed to help figure this out- let me know and i will get it for you.

Benzboy13

I cant exactly help but I have a few quick question.

This ticking noise you hear..

While driving, does it seem to come from under the center console?

And does it almost sound as though tiny air bubbles are popping out of a very small hole? (picture an air tube under water leaking air)

Lastly, does the time in between ticks slow as your coming to a stop? (as if it corresponds with the tranny speed?)

anyway good luck with your problems. I can tell my tranny isn't 100 percent but no major problems so far ::knock on wood::

ichibans13.5

nope doesnt sound the same- the purge valve that is ticking is right behind the drive side headlight with a vacuum line running in and out of it.

but i think you have one of the 2 problems
1) the heat shield above the propeller shaft rubbing on the shaft
or
2) a broken swing arm attached to your step motor- clicking while it spins around

i will PM you 2 links

ichibans13.5

so friday i bring it in for the campaign for the $12 hose, was going to have the dealership glycol test the fluid but they told me its $230 what a rip off, i will just hot plate test it myself!
i am not going to tell the dealership about the problem because i dont want to go to them scratching my head and watch them change 10 things i dont need.
next on my list is CAS and pigtails
any suggestions guys?

C230 Sport Coup

Yet ANOTHER 2003 with problems? Geez, thats like the 10th one in a week,
sorry I don't have anything to offer for solutions, you've done almost everything.
You can send a sample of the tranny fluid to Blackstone labs for $20.
The only thing I don't see mentioned is the leaky cam sensor issue...
oil in the harness does wierd things...and or the leaky tranny oring issue.

Glyn M Ruck

What is the cars idle speed in park & cold?
Does the car start easily?
Have you unplugged the MAF and driven on a default map?
Is the car blowing black fuel smoke out of the exhaust? - running rich since you changed the temp sensor?
Why did you change the temp sender unit?
Is the new temp sender unit OK? Is it properly earthed? Did you put conductive grease on the threads?
I think it's possible the vehicle does not know what the engine temperature is
I think your thermostat is possibly wonky but not throwing a code because the temp sensor is unreliable - you have not thrown a P0128.
What temp does the car reach fully warmed up?
Your P201B code is incomplete - it is either fuel shutting off to cylinder 1 or a defective injector on cylinder 1 - It's not technically a misfire
Do you have access to a boroscope to check that you don't have excessive carbon build up on the back of the inlet valve tulips & in the combustion chambers? Your car is in the bad head window.
Are you sure the dealer did not screw up the hose replacement?
Are you absolutely certain you don't have a vacuum leak?
Please do a dry & wet compression test on all cylinders.

I think this thing has the ECU going round in circles due to crap input from one or more sensors - most likely the temp sensor. You are going to have to do this as a process of elimination with so many conflicting codes.

If the TCU was contaminated with oil I would expect it to throw up some transmission codes. It has not. This behaviour can be caused by the TCU not providing the correct voltage to the torque convertor lock up clutches but this would throw codes.

I really think you should get a little OBDII scanner like this from Harbor Freight if you are going to try & lick this problem yourself & don't have permanent access to the Solus - on special at $39.99 at present



How did the problem first manifest itself that led you to take all these actions? What was the first sign that something was wrong.

I'm sorry that I've thrown a bucket of questions at you but there are so many conflicts here - We need to get back to basics & start when you first experienced trouble & work from there.

I suggest you record & cancel all the codes & then see what appears again.

1fast68

I know I'm new but:
"here is the problem- when the car is cold (and i mean until you visibly see the coolant temp start going up on the gauge cluster), anytime it is placed from park into R or D then whole motor shakes, rpms drop and makes a loud noise and the motor wants to push you forward as to not stall, i noticed if the car is on snow or ice even with the brakes on, the back tires will still be moving pushing you around with the front tires locked up"

what is being described here is the torque converter staying locked up. Though I've never worked on an MB tranny, a domestic tranny uses a pressure sensor located inside the trans to lock and unlock the converter.

Glyn M Ruck

I agree, if you see my comments above, that this is a possibility. Wrong voltages to the converter clutch servos would cause this but it should throw a code immediately.

That's why I want ichiban__ to cancel codes and see what reappears. We should be getting codes in the below two ranges if the TC clutch is snatching or not disengaging.


P0740 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Malfunction
P0741 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance or Stuck Off
P0742 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Stuck On
P0743 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Electrical
P0744 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Intermittent
P0745 Pressure Control Solenoid Malfunction
P0746 Pressure Control Solenoid Performance or Stuck Off
P0747 Pressure Control Solenoid Stuck On
P0748 Pressure Control Solenoid Electrical
P0749 Pressure Control Solenoid Intermittent

P2500 The transmission has an impermissible transmission ratio.
P2501 Engine overevving has occurred.
P2502 The gear is implausible or the transmission is slipping.
P2503 The gear comparison is negative or the target gear is not reached.
P2510 The torque converter lock-up clutch causes impermissible closing.
P2511 Engaging of torque converter lockup clutch not permitted.
P2511 The torque converter lock-up clutch has excessive power consumption.
P2512 Actuation of torque converter lockup clutch is not possible
P2520 The feedback through the transmission protection is not maintained.
P2600 The voltage supply of circuit 87 has undervoltage.
P2601 The voltage supply of circuit 87 has overvoltage.
P2602 The voltage supply of the valves is faulty.
P2603 The voltage supply of the speed sensors is faulty.

There is more than one thing wrong with this vehicle.

ichibans13.5

glyn and others thank you very much for the info- i bring it into the dealership tommorow morning for the campaign for the 12 hose- i will also do the trick to reset the tps. tommorow when i have some time i am going to print out your post glyn and go through them step and step and report back by the end of tommorow- also i erased all the codes in the first post that day and it has yet to throw another code.

Glyn M Ruck

Good luck

ichibans13.5

[QUOTE=Glyn M Ruck;3376379]What is the cars idle speed in park & cold?
the car idles at around 1100 rpms when cold- one coolant temps are up it gradually goes down to around 650rpms-

Does the car start easily?
yes very easily

Have you unplugged the MAF and driven on a default map?
not yet but i will try this once i buy that scan tool you posted as i do not always have access to the solous.

Is the car blowing black fuel smoke out of the exhaust?
only for the first minute when the car is extremely cold and the bypass valve is open.

- running rich since you changed the temp sensor?
Why did you change the temp sender unit?
the car on the highway gets 30mpg, and around the city gets 21mpg- so i do believe the car is going closed to open loop transitions fine (also why i think the maf is not gone)

The car threw a coolant temp sensor code about 2 months ago when i originally changed the sensor- the problem was happening back then so i assumed it was running extremely rich as it probably went it a default lowest temp setting. so it did not help the problem and now the code came back.
Is the new temp sender unit OK? Is it properly earthed? Did you put conductive grease on the threads?
the temp sensor goes into a plastic coolant line with a o-ring gasket and a locking clip- i assume you mean put it on the electrical connecting clip right- i did not but i will go back and do this!

I think it's possible the vehicle does not know what the engine temperature is
I think your thermostat is possibly wonky but not throwing a code because the temp sensor is unreliable - you have not thrown a P0128.
What temp does the car reach fully warmed up?
i may have to double check the car but i believe it sits around 70 and takes about 5-7 mins when it is around 25 out.
Your P201B code is incomplete - it is either fuel shutting off to cylinder 1 or a defective injector on cylinder 1 - It's not technically a misfire
Do you have access to a boroscope to check that you don't have excessive carbon build up on the back of the inlet valve tulips & in the combustion chambers? Your car is in the bad head window.

I will be able to use a boroscope from my friends dealership- I believe the code may have been thrown when i seafoamed it through a vacuum line- last time i seafoamed the car it threw a misfire code.

Are you sure the dealer did not screw up the hose replacement?
the hose replacement was just done- car drives the same as before tho
Are you absolutely certain you don't have a vacuum leak?
Please do a dry & wet compression test on all cylinders.
The car idles very stable when in park or neutral- does not jump around even when u press on the brakes- does not seems to have a vacuum leak but is there a better way to test?
Compression test-will do this week- can i just pull all the coilpacks and do one cylinder all the time or do i need to pull the fuse for the fuel pump on this car- and what #s are in acceptable range.
I think this thing has the ECU going round in circles due to crap input from one or more sensors - most likely the temp sensor. You are going to have to do this as a process of elimination with so many conflicting codes.
So i checked all the sensors for oil yesterday- turns out i saw some only in the cam angle plugs- i sprayed them heavily a couple times with electric cleaner leaving them hanging upside down.

If the TCU was contaminated with oil I would expect it to throw up some transmission codes. It has not. This behaviour can be caused by the TCU not providing the correct voltage to the torque convertor lock up clutches but this would throw codes.
Sorry I am a little lost here- what is the TCU and where is it located-- i do have a voltage tester also. (just let me know what voltage to look for, and if its a constant voltage or increases with rpm)

I really think you should get a little OBDII scanner like this from Harbor Freight if you are going to try & lick this problem yourself & don't have permanent access to the Solus - on special at $39.99 at present

i will pick this up- there is a local harbor freight and i will see if they have one in store.

How did the problem first manifest itself that led you to take all these actions? What was the first sign that something was wrong.
First thing i noticed was the motor was a little shaky and the belt would squel on first start up- appeared to just be the tensioner pulley as some others had this problem- i waited a couple weeks to change and the problem kept getting worse- when i finally changed it- the problem was still there without the belt squel.

I'm sorry that I've thrown a bucket of questions at you but there are so many conflicts here - We need to get back to basics & start when you first experienced trouble & work from there.
Your help is GREATLY appreciated- keep the questions coming i really want to fix this.

I suggest you record & cancel all the codes & then see what appears again.
erased over a week ago and no codes back.

also resetting the tps did nothing.

Glyn M Ruck

[QUOTE=ichibans13.5;3384346]OK

I don't know whether we are going to get this right without more work but so far:

You have a slightly high idle when cold - certainly enough to make the car want to creep forward. When the idle drops to 650 RPM does it still want to creep forward? I think the answer is YES?

The temperature sensing circuit is still suspect

The Thermostat is highly suspect - operating temp is 87 deg.

You have to sort out cylinder one - Why is it throwing a code? - vacuum line clean?? - fuel shut off or injector clogged - low compression - electrical misfire etc.

I'm very worried about leaking cam sensors - check this all out properly & fit the pigtails - replace sensors - clean engine harness - whatever is necessary

Answer my misfire code question

Do the boroscope inspection

It is very possible that we have a torque converter lock up clutch not disengaging - Why I don't know. There is an O ring that fails in the gearbox where the TCU harness plugs into the box. Oil comes up the harness and polutes the TCU - I do not understand why we are not getting transmission codes if this is the problem - I would try and have this diagnosed on a STAR

Good luck

ichibans13.5

[QUOTE=Glyn M Ruck;3384790]
Ok sorry this took a couple days- thermostat definatly needs replacing car hovers around 75 degress driving around.

The TCU O-ring has failed before leaking tranny fluid onto the ground- but I fixed this relativaly quick. Also this was over a year ago, and this problem is much more recent.

the car does still want to creep forward once the rpms start droping

I jacked the car up the rear of the car when it was cold and had someone put it in gear- it went in fine and the tires were spinning in the air- then i had him hit the brakes and the car wanted to stall- I think this is definatly the torque converter staying locked and when i hold the brakes or just the weight of the car makes it want to stall. Why it gets better once its warm I have no idea.

So I also wanted to solve the oil in the wire harness issue- So i pulled out the subharness and soaked it in a alcohol bath. Some side notes on this- i have read before people saying this takes 1.5 hours to do- do not believe this. It took me 3 hours and to get the o2 sensor conectors and the one other plug out you have to pull the supercharger, I just put a ziploc bag of alcohol around them and ziptied it on. Gravity did its job and cleaned these out nicely- let them dry for 2 days as it was very cold out. Ohh and Glynn when i put all the connectors back i put di-electric grease on them, on everything but the ecu.

For the boroscope test - I wasnt sure if cylinder 1 was closest to the radiator or closest to the firewall- so i just checked all the cylinders- 2 cylinder walls were exposed and they look good with no scaring- saw no excessive carbon build up- and the new plugs when pulled out looked perfect- a golden color- no black or white build up- so i dont think an injector is stuck on or shutting off.

I believe I found a leak after the MAF- there was a build up of old oil residue outside the silicon coupling- so it had to leak out somehow- so i modded it with new silicone coupling and some t-bolt clamps

I was not able to borrow the snap on compression tester yet. it will get done this week tho.
here are some pics



valve seals are doing their job! intake valves were all clean


modded


dirty alcohol after letting wire harness sit

Glyn M Ruck

OK - ichibans - I think we definitely have a malfunction of the TCU & the Torque convertor clutch. I did not know you had had the transmission O ring leak. Oil creeps up the harness from the plug in the transmission into the TCU which is under the passenger side floor plate. You must check the TCU for oil. It could easily take a year to creep up there. If it's not the TCU then the auto box is going to have to have the oil pan dropped & the valve body checked out or the transmission is going to have to come out - be stripped & inspected. I think it's the TCU or the TCU harness causing the trouble. The reason it's not as bad when warm is that the Transmission oil thins out & is probably allowing some slip. I do not know why it's not throwing codes???

Your valves look fantastic - You are using good fuel - The tulips are spotless - I hope it's Chevron Techron. Those are the kind of results we are used to.

Check the TCU for oil - Sorry this car is giving you so much work!! You are being very thorough.



Remove this plate - 3 plastic nuts I think.

SickSpeedMonte

Side note... Glyn, is Texaco with techron a good fuel to use? I put some techron concentrate plus into my tanke a few weeks ago and noticed a 2 mpg gain on my display. There is no chevron locally, but there is a texaco right up the street, and it says they use techron.

Glyn M Ruck

SSM - Yes, globally Chevron/Texaco/Caltex Techron is all the same thing - We are all one big company after the 2001 merger & Caltex was always a 50/50 JV between Californian Standard Oil (Chevron) & the Texas Oil Company (Texaco) - hence the CAL TEX.

I started my long career with Caltex and strangely enough was on the FTC "Clean Team" for the 2001 merger.

So yes - Techron is Techron - We've just launched Techron Diesel here.

We advertise Techron as "unsurpassed" - So far no other oil company has managed to challenge that claim successfully

ichibans13.5

right on the money glyn! chevron techron in the tank each 5k- and seafoam through a vacuum line every 15-20k