Margo

I again can't post to the dealer satisfaction thread.. so... As far as my salesperson, he is semi-knowledgable about the car, actually, I know more about it because of this forum, but he did call frequently over the months with updates as to build date, VIN, delivery date (this Friday or Saturday!!!) But, yesterday when he called, I told him I would like a car cover, since I paid FULL retail, they've had my deposit for 5+ months, etc. and he said "I only make $150 on this car and I would have to pay for the cover myself" PULEEZE!! I am holding out for the cover... he said he will "see what I can do."

shtatc

Margo,

Which dealer did you go through? Schumaker? or the other one..sorry forgot the name of the dealer....
How would rate your experience there....my experience here in Tucson was great....but I may use Schumaker the next time...they just have a better "on hand" selection.....

young

i think there is some veracity to the sales guy paying for the car cover. when i got my other car, my salesguy gave me an umbrella and couple of knick-knacks and we walked over to the store and he told them to put it on his account. of course, he probably got his employee discount, and he may expense it out, etc.

but that $150 seems a little low. i'd still hold out though and if he still doesn't budge, maybe a reminder when he brings up the MB survey is appropriate? :p

Margo

I did buy at Schumacher... so far, the experience has been pretty good... the car cover and $150 thing were ridiculous, though. I DID mention the dealer survey; that's when he said he would see what he can do.

RedC230K

I used to be a MB salesperson and $150 is about right on a C-class. It's not nice to squeeze the guy after the deal has already been made. Especially since the guy WILL most likely have to pay for the car cover out of the 1/20th of 1% of the $30k that he gets.

Does he deserve $10 an hour? Probably. Has he spent a total of 15 hours by the time he has finished serving you in the past, present, and during the duration of your ownership? I'll bet he will.

I quit my job as a Benz salesperson becuase most of the the car-buying public believes that retailers (and salespeople) should not be allowed to make money.

No offense, just my .02.

young

does the salesperson make $150 whether he sells the car for msrp or for $500 over invoice?

Flashman

I live for the day that cars are sold new via Internet and at stores like BESTBUY or CIRCUITCITY without any salesperson to annoy me. I can go read specs, test drive, and make my own decision. Then slide my credit card, pickup at delivery counter, and drive away.

I can buy a 25,000 computer or HDTV system this way. But I can't buy a 10,000 car this way.

www.carsdirect.com is promising, but without direct manufacturer support, they can't quite get there yet...

viper

I would be careful about trying to squeeze the salesman after the deal has been made. You may need him down the road when you buy another car so treat him fairly. The profit margins are tighter on this model than they are on a SL600 you know.

greg230

Red-
ok its pretty clear the profit margin on this car is way lower then that of many/most other mercedes, but $150 is steaming load of horse dung.

if you bought at msrp with no options thats 7% over invoice, then 3% holdback.... so are you seriously saying a hundred and fifty bucks gets to the sales rep???

if 150 was all the salesman was getting how did many people get free cd changers??? that should eat their entire profit.

and how did people get close to invoice pricing???

if you believe that they got 150 for selling you this car, i got a bridge with your name on it.

viper-
damn straight, its wrong to try and weasle post deal.

Margo-
use the fact you paid msrp on this car to leverage a big discount on the cl63 you were planning on buying

greg

revstriker

I just posted an answer to a question that Bud had asked in another thread. Circuit City operates a company called CarMax where they sell used cars. Some of them (there's one here in Dallas) do sell new cars. I think they sell Jeeps here. Could be a begining......

One more question. Is there any kind of a bonus that they get on top of the $150? Say for every 10 cars, they get some $$? It just seems kind of low to me.

Flashman

You guys are confusing dealer profit with salesperson comission. I believe the comment was that a salesperson only earned $150 per C-Coupe sale, while the dealership walked away with 10% profit (if sold at MSRP).

Honestly, this is really an employment and compensation issue between the dealer and the salesperson. I don't see how it has anything to do with the customer. As long as salespersons are willing to work for $150 a sale, that's all they will get.

You can always sell timeshare...

Silver Bullet

My two cents....salesperson was wrong in telling you how much he makes selling certain vehicles, that's a no-no. I received a nice complimentary MB keychain with my C230K and post-service there has been very good but expect about a week's lead time to get scheduled in. It doesn't hurt to ask but respect the decision if the answer's no! By the way, there was a brand new black C230K sitting in the new car area this week. Could it be yours??

RedC230K

Greg - you are ignorant on the issue of sales commissions.
Salespeople where I worked (and MANY other places) usually get 20% of dealer profit minus $200. So if you buy a car for $500 over invoice, the salespersons commission is $60. Would I kiss your *** for $60? No. I'd rather quit. So I did.
I speak the truth. $150 is what you make on a C-class if you're lucky. That's it. So how much is the bridge, Greg?

Flashman - Salespeople annoy you? My favorite way of annoying people was to deliver their new car to them at their homes - usually doing paperwork on their kitchen table. I would further annoy them by picking their car up for service and returning it to them usually before they even noticed it was gone.
Hence, I had clients who had NEVER been to the dealership.

You guys should have a little respect. That's all I'm saying.

young

well, i have respect for some salespersons (and you sound like you were very courteous) as persons. but there is definitely an antagonistic relationship. i mean, i'm trying to get the cheapest price for the car and the sales person is not. conflict.

perhaps it is a wrong perception, but i see the salesperson as my foe to wrestle with. i mean, consumer reports has a whole industry of how not to get ripped off when buying cars (new and used). but there we are. as a consumer, the motto is buyer beware.

having said that, i had felt that my salesperson helped me quite a bit (but i still feel that that is the exception). until i found out some of the deals that fellow forum members received. i still like him, but i do feel somewhat cheated (even if its my own fault). again, there we are. a relationship w/ bad feelings on both sides; i feel cheated and the salesperson is frustrated that i want everything!

i agree w/ the idea of a haggle free system. i bought a subaru forester from a local dealership. i went in and asked for a price. the salesperson told me $2000 over invoice. i thought, not too bad. i called auto-by-tel which referred me to the same dealer by coincidence. over the phone, was quoted $500 over invoice.

RedC230K

Young,
I was an MB sales rep for three years.
I just bought my car in November from a different dealership than I had worked for.
I asked the guy for his best deal...it seeemed pretty fair... I bought the car. I didn't haggle or squeeze him and I don't feel cheated because he may have made a few dollars. He needs to make a living, too.
Other people on this board may have paid less, but I doubt they are any happier with their ownership experience than I am.
Once my salesguy figured out that I wasn't going to be adversarial toward him, he was much more eager to help me. I wanted an impossible to find car, and he found it out of state and trucked it here (at the dealer's cost) within four days! He returns my calls IMMEDIATELY. He gives me his own demo as a loaner when I go in for service.
I may have paid $200 more, but I certainly didn't get screwed.

I'll be happy to be a source of "insider" info to anyone who might need it. Just ask.

greg230

let me address your points in no specific order.

1. i have respect for salemsen ASSUMING they treat me as a valued customer. not some waste of their time. i have had both good and bad experiences purchasing my coupe (mb princeton=bad, keenan motors=good) i sent a x-mas card to my salesman at keenan, rick gave my salesman at princeton a bannana (he was a salesmonkey)

2. i have a friend at a bmw dealership, and a friend at a used car dealership BOTH make more then 150 a car, on a comparably priced bmw 3, or a used car. my salesman even told me point blank he makes more then a couple hundred bucks per coupe

3. margo is buying her coupe FULL RETAIL/MSRP, thats 1400 profit between invoice/msrp that works out to 240 for the salesman.

4. holdback

5. numerous dealerships have incentive programs for salesman that move VOLUME, they also usually have spiffs on options and accessories.

6. i dont know about you, but when i spend 30k on a car, and a mercedes to boot, i expect to get my *** kissed. heres a newsflash, these are great cars, but great cars are a dime a dozen. If keenan treated me like dirt, i bet you the bmw or saab dealership wouldnt mind my business.

in conclusion

salesman chose their own job, and they need to learn to treat people respectfully, or they are not gonna get sales. On average people have a negative view about car salesman cause the bad apples are REALLY ROTTEN. Should margo get a free car cover? hell yea. should she have negotiated that BEFORE signing? HELL YEA. is her car salesman feeding her a hot pile of ****? you betcha bottom dollar he is.

RedC230K

Greg,
I need no "news flashes" - I know far more than you do about the Mercedes-Benz sales process. I've been on BOTH sides of the table.
You make some good points. Some very bad.
I disagree. Margo's salesman is probably being truthful.
Commission is not paid on holdback. Bonuses and spiffs do sometimes happen... but you've gotta work your *** off to earn them.

I treated customers as friends and was treated as a friend by them.
I politely showed some people the door when they exhibited the behavior and attitudes I often see displayed on this board. Would you spend hours kissing the *** of a know-it-all beligerent adversarial jerk for the slight chance that you MIGHT make $150 after many hours of turmoil?? Even knowing the guy would cut your throat over a $75 car cover? Nah.

greg230

no offense, if your in sales, its your job to deal with adversarial jerks that want to cut your throat. If you want to just toss aside those hostile stand-offish customers, thats your right. But thats a pretty obvious failure on your part as a salesman.

You dont know anything about that angry customer, but instead of trying to break down that wall, and change car salesman stereotypes, you "show him the door."

if you want to get hugs all day, and be friends with everyone you meet, go into daycare.

the simple fact of the matter, salesman are making more then 150 bucks on these cars. by your own formula, anyone that paid more then 500 over invoice made more then 150 bucks (and most people paid more then 500 over invoice)

lots of people did get free cdchangers, a $700 option. how do you explain away a salesman giving so much away when he was making only 150 on the car?

greg

Margo

OK, I agree I should have asked for the car cover when I signed the sales contract, BUT 6 months ago I just didn't think about it I paid about $2407 over invoice plus the 3% hold back of about $700 (figured on base price w/o options). So that's $3100 the dealer is making on my sale. If I am wrong about the figures, please correct me. But based on that, I think the DEALER could kick in a lousy car cover. It is just good customer relations, IMHO. And, Silver Bullet, I don't know if that was my car you saw; it was in LA on Friday, so I assume it's here by now. I am expecting to pick it up Friday or Monday

Flashman

It's not personal, trust me. It is just that they serve very little purpose for me personally. The services you mention are nice, but they cost money. I'd rather not pay for that. I'd prefer the get to lowest price available and use the saved the money for other uses. Same reason I buy electronics from places like http://www.etronics.com/ instead of buying them at Best Buy.

I don't seek to rip off a dealer or salesperson. I just want a price that is consistent with the better deals other people are getting. If everyone bought the car at MSRP, I'd pay MSRP. But the truth is that they are not buying it at that price. Discounts are being offerred everywhere. IF a dealer actually gave me a price that was "as low" as the car is being sold to other people, I would probably be in/out in 10 minutes. $150 for 10 minutes, not bad.

But NOOOOOOoooooooo. They start with a higher price, then make you work every dollar down to the price they should have just given you in the first place. Then, and this is were I do find it insulting, they complain about the low pay they get based on the hours invested. Took me 2-3 hours to get down in price, so the salesperson somehow thinks he invested 2-3 hours. No, he WASTED 2-3 hours. It is that simple. To then divide that comission over the many hours WASTED is insulting to the buyer who was forced to endure that process.

BTW, this is EXACTLY why I am buying my car from MB of Clearwater and not from MB of Orlando. MB of Orlando was within $200 (not big deal) of the price I wanted, but they already had made me work through 2 hours in their showroom to get to that price. I'm sure for another 2 hours I'd have gotten the price I wanted, but I was annoyed at the wasted time. So I left.

Instead, I emailed MB of Clearwater with the price I was seeking, and they emailed be RIGHT back and we had a deal. They even faxed me a full bill of sale signed so there are no fee surprises. No time wasted for the customer, no time wasted for the dealer, no time wasted for the salesperson. THAT is what I call service and that is why I'm driving 2 hours to get my car rather than buy it locally.

BTW, I did try to email MB of Orlando originally with my price request. They agreed, but needed me to come in (sigh). When I walked into the showroom they came up with a $400 fee for their owner (Autonation), which is why I had to WASTE time negotiating.

RedC230K

Greg,
You still do not grasp this.

The free CD changers were throwon in by the DEALER , not the SALESPERSON!! The salesperson could barely afford to do that on an S-class.

Also, you fail to understand the formula. Before a salesperson could make $150, dealer profit would have to be at least $950.

I was not a failure as a salesperson... I made a decent living and had the highest customer satisfaction score in my area.
I just refused to deal with customers who could not accept reality or truth no matter how many times it was explained to them in plain English.

nboyd

This thread is a great example of two sides of the coin. I think most of us can appreciate the salespersons perspective.

My objection towards salespeople stem from my bad experiences, when you shop around there are many.

I recommend reading the correspondents on the first page of www.carbuyingtips.com. For me this epitomizes my experiences.

Arguing against trying to save money does not hold any weight in modern society. Mom and Pop shops have disappeared because people prefer to save money. Supermarkets, outlet stores and wall mart type superstores are so successful because people want the best deal.

Why should buying a car be any different?

Toyota are gong to be selling a new SUV hybrid exclusively through the internet. Dealers are going to be like MOM and Pops shops because people strive for a better deal.

Two years ago I was in the market for a new bug. I had several experiences but the worst came from a bay area dealer, she tried to sell a used bug for more than the MSRP on a new bug. I knew my figures and when I questioned the price she told me that they sold used bugs for more than new ones. The reason was in that economy people did not care how much it cost.

I informed her I wanted a new car and I would not pay over the MSRP for a used car, she told me that a VW was not the car for me and walked away. I had the cash in my account ready to sign a cheque for a new car and she told me to leave the forecourt.

I could provide many more but just my 2 cents.

Nathan

RedC230K

It sounds like you encountered some really horrible salespeople!!

Those are pretty bad experiences and they underscore my belief that what you get is more important than what you pay - at least to a degree.
Instead of shopping around tring to save an extra $50, I looked for a dealership and salesperson that would treat me fairly, always tell me the truth, and give me good service.

You can say that you don't care about service, as long as you can buy a car for chump change over invoice using the internet.

The internet will never replace the service aspect. The internet can not help you in any way beyond displaying pixels on your screen. The internet will not change your oil. The only way to get service is from a dealership - which needs to be profitable to exist.

revstriker

Judging from the way some dealerships look, they seem to be highly profitable.

I do believe that the internet will never replace the service aspect that is offered by the dealer. For that matter, I doubt it could ever replace dealers in car sales. But I do believe that it (the internet) offers an avenue for buying a car that puts more power in the hands of the buyer with less pressure. Plus, not everyone services their car where they purchased it, nor are they required to.

Pete

RedC230K,

I appreciate your standpoint, as I'm sure that anyone can who's worked in any sort of retail.

However, I'm a bit confused as to the "service" aspect of your argument. The "service" and "sales" departments of the dealerships are mutually exclusive, are they not? What do oil-changes and service appointments have anything to do with the salespeople? I know that I haven't spoke with my salesperson, or any salesperson for that matter, since I bought the car, over six months ago, yet the car has been in for service (at mine and other dealerships).

Your argument that internet purchases would obsolete dealerships may be correct, but only the sales aspect of the dealerships. If there were no service departments for these cars, they wouldn't sell any cars, via the internet or anywhere else. The price of "servicing" these cars (for 4 years) is inlcuded in the price of these cars, as well. Your remarks seem to imply that the salespeople are in some way gracious enough to provide us with such.

If a person knows which car he/she wants, which options, and what he/she wants to pay, what is a salesperson needed for? An internet purchase seems quite logical in the case where a salesperson is not needed. I understand that there are cases when one is needed: the person doesn't know what he/she wants, advice is needed, feature comparisons are necessary. But in the case that someone knows exactly what he/she wants, what does the dealer offer, other than methods to somehow get more money from the buyer?