Spf30

I'm trying to decide between these 2 cars and altho I like the styling of the M-B better I think the 325i drives better. Can anyone offer their 2 cents to persuade me to go M-B?

thx

SoCal240/6

I went through the exact same thing.

We ended up buying the C240/6. But it was close. Its actually my wife's daily driver, kiddie picker-upper, etc. If it were going to be a car that I would predominately drive, I would have bought the 325i with Sport Package. Mainly because its far more fun to drive, IMO. The power is better and smoother, it shifts better, and handles better, with its sport suspension and 17 inch wheels, it more of a sports sedan.

That's the bottom line: the MB is geared more towards luxury, the BMW more towards sport.

Cons of the BMW:

Its styling has been out since 1999, so its about half way through its life. Another con is they have made some style changes for 2002, which I think are plain UGLY. To the bumpers and they have an awful looking, huge sidemarker now. But, styling is purely subjective, what looks great to some may look bad to others, and v/v.

The interior is more plain, and some of the interior bits look a little cheap. Overall, I like the MB interior better.

It doesn't have as many standard features as the MB, if gadgets are impt to you.

Pros of the BMW:

Silky smooth straight 6, silky smooth 5 speed stick, I don't know the exact numbers, but it feels a whole lot faster than the C240. Its really a lot of fun to wind out that engine. Its a great driving car. Its more of an enthusiast's car. (I'm actually surprised at how old most of the C240/C320 driver's in my area are, most seem in their 40s/50s).

The price is really good. I would have been able to get a 2001 at around $1200 over invoice.

Pros of C240:

Is a newer car, so its a more modern car. Little gadgets that the BMW doesn't have.

Its styling is newer. Again, styling is subjective. I think the MB is a nice looking car, but has a feminine look. The 325i, with the sport pack, looks more aggressive, its way lower, with 17 inch wheels, etc. Again, subjective.

Its interior is nicer, I think, than the BMW. Again, kind of subjective.

Cons of C240:

Power is marginal. I would not buy it with the automatic. With a couple people in the car, the trans hunts around, and it just doesn't have enough power. With the stick, its ok (acceptable), but not by a lot. I would have loved a C320 6 speed.

The trans isn't as nice. I like the BMW 5 speed better. But the MB trans isn't bad at all.

It costs more.

Its handling isn't even close to the BMW.

I think they are both very nice cars, though, and you can't really go wrong with either. The only thing you can do is check them out very closely yourself, take many test drives, and make a decision!

Spf30

I agree w/ just about all of your comments. I think that from a looks standpoint both interior and exterior, the M-B is superior to the BMW (looks like a more expensive vehicle). However, from a driving standpoint, the seat, steering wheel, engine and handling of the BMW just seems to feel better.

Mach430

You can always get the C240 and change the suspension to something that fits your preferences better.

MarkL

Hey, I went through the same decision too. I thought I wanted the 325i, but after seeing the Benz, I just couldn't. I agree w/ most of what SoCal says (except for the feminine look of the C-class), but it seems like he did more comparison driving than I did. I drove the auto C240 once and it wasn't as bad as what I had thought. I wanted the manual, and drove the 6-spd about 3-4 times to be sure of the power. The BMW is quicker, but I don't think the C240 6-spd is as bad as some people say. It did come down to the basic decision: Pure driving or a compromise of good driving and beautiful looks. Once I saw the interior of the C240, there was no comparison to the BMW.

Here are some of the other factors for me:
1) There are just too many 325i's in my area and at work.
2) There are many "cheap" things about the 325i where BMW tries to separate it from the 330i, and the 5-series: Black trim piece above the license plate, very cheap looking plastic cup holders at the console, black seat belts even w/ beige interior (which I was getting), etc. These have no place on a $30K+ car. There are almost no compromises with the C-Class exterior/interior.
3)Ergonomic problems w/ the BMW interior, especially the power window controls -- maybe minor, but I would hate it immediately. The buttons are so far apart on the center console you can only work one window at a time. Then, they're spread across both sides of the stick so it's really a poor design.

Again, IMO, the design of the MB blows away the BMW. Either car will be great and a lot of fun. Good luck.

SoCal240/6

Good point. I didn't like the black trim on the 325i, I much preferred the 330 trim. A small thing, but it bugged me.

In that way, MB is more egalitarian, other than the badge, you can't tell a 240 from a 330. BMW makes it so that the upper 330 looks a little better than the lower 325 (chrome/body color v. black trim pieces, etc.).

MB-BOB

Concerning style, the MB runs on a 7-year body style... new in 2001, and current through 2006-7. You can ask a dealer about their style "plan". They're quite proud of it. The BMW updates its style every other year. Point is you'll have a car more current for a longer period of time, if you plan to keep it awhile.

Further, the current W203 C-sedan is the third generation, and is definitely distinguishable from the original 190E of the mid '80s, and the C220/280 that immediately preceded it.

In contrast, IMO, BMW has done simple front and rear facelifts periodically, but hasn't redone the car completely since the late '70s. I have no insider information, so consider this a theory only. If you buy a 325i in 2002, and BMW ever decides to do a complete makeover with a V-6, etc, say in 2005, you will not have a 2002 model car that is 3-years out of date, but a car some 20-years + out of date.

Not that they ever will abandon the I-6. BMW is about the only European manufacturer that hasn't put a new engine design in their entry level sedan in over 25 years. Updates, sure, but new? No.

Spf30

Not to sound pro- BMW, but to clarify:

The BMW 3-series also runs on a 6-7 year design period. Last re-make ran from '92-98, & the current design was new in '99. Altho the design changes looked minor from the outside, the car was totally redesigned in '99. As for the in-line 6 vs. V-6, the current in-line 6's in the 3-series are hard to fault (drive a 330i- low end torque like a V-8).

A major problem for me is I need an automatic, and the C240 w/auto is much slower vs. the 325 w/auto.

Sidenote - Will 2003 be the year when M-B & BMW enter the 21st century and make in-dash 6-cd changers std. equipment ?(Audi already did it in their new A4!)

SoCal240/6

Love ya, Bob, but that is just not true at all.

The E21 3 series ran from 1977 to 1983.

The E30 replaced it for the 1984 model year. It was a completely redone car, esp. in 6 cylinder form. I doubt the 1984 325e shared a single part with the 1983 320i.

The E30 ran from 1984 to around 1991. The E36 that replaced it in 1992 didn't share a single part. It was 100% new car (OK, like the 2001 MB, it may have shared some very minor parts with its predecessor, like lug nuts).

The E46 replaced the E36 in 1999. Again, an all new car.

As you can see, BMW, like MB and many other car makers, uses a roughly 7 year model run before completely revising the car. In addition, BMW historically doesn't really do any significant mid-term facelifts. The one they did on the 2002 E46 is about the most significant in 3 series history, for mid-term changes. Another big one was changes in bumpers in the early 90s. But that's been about it. Your comment that BMW updates its style every year is just flat wrong. At least it has been historically. (a 1977 320i looks exactly like a 1983 320i, a 1993 325i looks almost exactly like a 1998 328i, etc.)

Also, the current E46 is VERY distinguishable from the original 77-83 320i! The current C looks more like the 190 than the current 3 series looks like the original 320i. Its not even close.

The current 3 series body style came out in 1999. There is no secret when the new body will come out. It will be in 7 years from 1999. The 2006/7 3 series will be an all new car.

No new engine in 20+ years? Man, I gotta say, you're just makin' stuff up. The only similarity the current engine shares with earlier engines is that its an inline! And, MB going to a V is nothing to be proud of. They only did it because its cheaper to produce and easier to package. A V6 does not have the inherent balance that an inline 6 has. Certain engines are inherently balanced, an inline 6 is one of them, a V6 is not.

No offense, but that post had the single highest amount of misinformation contained in a single, relatively short post that I have ever seen!

MB-BOB

The I-6 in the 330i produces 214 lb ft of torque at 3500 rpm.
The V-6 in the C320 produces 221 lb ft of torque at only 3000 rpm. Where the 330i shines is its extra HP (225 vs 215).

Not to belabor the style thing, but I wanted to restate with an example. Porsche has been producing the 911 since the late 1940's... same basic style, lots of complete makeovers under the skin. But a 911 today looks pretty much like one from the '60s.

I'm old enough to remember when Porsche introduced their front engine models (924/928), which we can all agree were complete styling departures from 911. At the time, MotorTrend, Car & Driver and Road & Track each took turns deriding the 911's not-just-slightly out of date look, but that it now looked ancient set alongside the 928. Of course, the year before, the mags drooled over 911 style, but overnight it all changed.

Subsequent Porsche history notwithstanding, I hope you can see my point. As soon as BMW decides to do something novel with it's complacent 3-series, all the old ones will look passe.

young

well, i have a 325xi wagon auto and my broinlaw has a 325ci manual (both 2001) and both of us feel its underpowered. i haven't driven 240 but if you feel that auto is underpowered, well, that's not good.

my little (and i mean little ) observations:
the mb computer makes the bmw computer seem dinky
the mb computer color (amber) is easier on my eyes than bmw's red
mb has longer service program (4 years vs 3)
mb has longer roadside (lifetime)
mb has auto-lights which i like and basically use all the time
you get mb teleaid (but some dislike it)
mb smartkey is awesome - auto has toggle ignition on - no cranking. bmw key is big (albeit sophisticated)
mb has homelink standard
mb leather is great; bmw leatherette is better than the leather (imho)
mb steering wheel controls seem better
xenons are cheaper to get on the bmw b/c you don't have to get c4
bmw comes w/ full size alloy spare
bmw has standard cd player but armrest was optional (is it still???)

that's all i can think of right now. i guess my advice/question is which car makes you smile more?

oh yeah, the big thing for me was that there are too many bmws. so its kinda boring.

SoCal240/6

For the love of god, Bob, STOP!

Your I6 v. V6 point is not correct, to the extent you are trying to say the V6 is inherently superior. The BMW engine is tuned for higher hp and less torque because its a sports sedan, designed to be revved. BMW could get the MB number and MB could get the BMW number by simple camshaft, intake and exhaust tuning.

Porsche has made the 911 since the '40s??? WTH do you get that from??? The 911 was first produced in 1965. It was a complete redesign of the 356 that preceeded it. Also, it didn't have a lot of makeovers under the skin. Mechanically, a 1966 is remarkably the same as a 1989. Same chassis, same suspension, same engine design, same interior design, etc. They had a chassis change in 1990, 1995 and 1999. Four chassis in 35 years!

Finally, "BMW's complacent 3 series"?!?!? Umm, the 3 series has defined the class and has been the target for EVERY mid-sized sports sedan maker since 1977. It is universally considered to be the class leading car, and has been for decades now. Hardly "complacent."

MB-BOB

Well, once again, this Mercedes-Benz forum has become a Bimmer-addicted support group.

I have a friend with a 356 who feels that the 911 owes its heritage to the 356...

I'm tired. Good night.

greg230

i like when you guys fight, its very relaxing.

keep up the good work

greg

dasMafia

I'm with socal on this one. you also need to remember that the MB is BIGGER by about 7% and only has 4% more torque... a testament to the efficience of the inline engine.

HOWEVER... the MB is still a better car. its quieter, safer, better equipped (save the CD-player fiasco) and better finished...

when comparing the 325 to the C240, the 325 is a far faster car, but it really is a step down the ladder in every other respect.

and to "young" and his brother-in-law... if you think your 2.5L is underpowered, thats becasue its not in its proper home... a 2900lbs roadster!!! yeeaahh!

young

heh, plus, mines a wagon and auto. my broinlaw - well, he's a very aggressive driver so its mental w/ him! i think only the m3 will satisfy him.

revstriker

The only way to solve this is to go out and test drive both. They are different cars, and have different appeals. We have a 2000 323i and a 2002 C320. I did test drive the C240. I know the BMW has changed a few things over the last two years, and the engine has a few more horsies. But it's the same body style. My neighbor has a 95 or a 96 BMW 3 series, and it looks a lot different than ours. Ours seems a little bigger, and more rounded.

I think if you like power, the BMW will win over the 240. But if you like luxury, then the MB wins over the 325i. If you like both, get the 320. If you like both and can afford it, get the C32.

SoCal240/6

MB-Bob, I like your posts and think they are great, other than the ones in this thread! Sorry if I sounded too harsh, if I offended you I apologize.

Young: If you and your brother think a 325Ci stick shift is underpowered, you guys must be used to driving some pretty powerful cars! And, I don't think the power of any C (other than the C32) would be sufficient for anyone who thinks the 325Ci stick is underpowered.

Revstriker: Your last paragraph pretty much sums up the 3 v C debate!

Spf30

Guys - I appreciate all of your good input, especially from SoCal, who IMO laid out a lot of factual data that is dead on. In my current car search I've tested a very wide variety of models and altho I believe that the Bimmer is tops in handling, engine/tranny, I also know that those attributes are only part of the picture (if it was everything then I'd buy a WRX).

Re: the 325i, I thought that the engine altho not explosive was sufficient, probably because it's tuned to have good torque at low rpm's. The C240 w/auto I drove seemed moderately less powerful- probably better w/ the 6-speed. I'm sure if I bought a C320 many of these issues would go away, but I'm trying to spend no more than @ $35K.

Anyone have the C240 w/sport pkg and does that improve handling marginally or substantially?

spindrome

aloha bradda,

I got the C240 auto, and like everyone else has pretty much stated, it's s-l-o-w. I'm not too concerned with speed since it's my daily driver to work. living in the bay area, you can't go fast due to traffic anyway....

anyways, i bought the car out of instinct, plus it was the first one in the bay area that was delievered. i too considered a 3-series but wanted to stay under $35K. I also considered a 2001 A4 1.8T Quattro. (I actually had one on order with Ernst @ Diablo Audi, but I backed out when MB called me). Everyone at my work drives a bimmer and A4's, so i wanted to be able to find my car in the lot...

My bottom line, the C240 is more luxurious than the 3, and the power is adequate at best. I think it looks a lot better than the 3, especially since mine is lowered, tinted, and has 18's own them. It handles so much better than stock. The amount you put in for aftermarket products (rims/tires $2500, springs, $500) makes it handle soooooo much better. I kept my stock shocks for now which is fine.

My car turns more heads than the bimmers do, that's for sure. Hey, at least I look good in traffic. If I want to race, then I'll rack go-carts at Speedring in Santa Clara, or race one of my bro's cars at a training in Laguna Seca.

PS= Have you considered the 2002 A4 1.8T? That would fit under $35. Get the quattro, sport pkg, and chip it and you will blow us all away.

- Spin

bagwell

I'd go for the 325i over the C240 based on the HP/speed/sportiness.

I'd go for the C240 over the 325i based on the exclusivity/luxury of the MB.

Looks (int/ext) are a toss-up imho

Personally I went for the C320 (over the 330i) becuz there's a million beamers around here ! After the purchase I HAD to put 17's and now trying to lower it.....so more $$$ just to make it look a little sportier.

But I love the looks/features of the car.

MB-BOB

SoCal240/6... I just put Guns 'n Roses' "Appetite For Destruction" back into rotation in my 6-CD. Axel had me wound up and feeling feisty that day, so I'll own up to some of the dissing, too. No, tommy, we're not gonna kiss and make-up.

We do have to agree to disagree on this one, though. I simply have no time for BMWs, and the longer I drive my C320, the more fixed my opinion gets. But, that's just me. Have fun!

tommy

MB-BOB, thanks for clearing that one up for me.

BTW: good thing that I'm still not at the New Orleans Andersen office, huh? It's a part of the Houston-based group, or at least what's left of it. I wonder if I'll get any Enron questions when I start interviewing this spring. In case you didn't see, one of the Enron execs killed himself - this thing is going to get worse before we know the full story, if ever. If we're lucky, it'll get Bushie tangled up as well. I'm sure he'll learn the Reagan mantra from Iran-Contra: "I do not recall."

viper

I considered a 3-series coupe but I could not get over some very cheap things about this class of BMW.

1. Power window buttons next to the transmission. What kind of engineering is this ? It really looks stupid on the 4 door sedan when the back seat passengers have the buttons on the doors and the front seat passengers have them on the console. Move them to the doors where they belong.

2. Check out the flimsy piece of trim that runs from the front wheel well under the doors to the back wheel well. You would think this was something sturdy. Nope. Just a cheap piece of fibreglass that is tacked on with a few screws. You can almost pull it off at the rear. Bad design.

3. No standard rear sear air bags. And no side curtains. Well I guess they say this is a drivers car and they don't want to make it the safest car they can.

Sure they handle well and the auto mags love them but to me this is really second rate engineering for a car that expensive.
It looks like you have to go up to the 5 series to see that BMW gets really serious about building cars.

Spf30

Your comment about the 325i not having a sidecurtain airbag for the rear seat passengers is a valid criticism, when you consider that even cheaper cars such as the Passat and A4 both have them. Regarding the window controls, that's a quirk that I could live with- for some it's a big deal. The C240/320 have there own quirks also (ie-foot mounted emrg. brake, small tach in left corner).

However, it's hard to discount the fact that IMHO the BMW has noticeably superior handling/steering/braking/power. This opinion is not based on magazine articles, but my own back to back test drives.

I'm still leaning towards the BMW, because I believe that ultimately the majority of my satisfaction from a car is going to come from the "driving" experience as opposed to the "looking experience".