Oil Message Really in Need of Help
10-17-2009, 11:03 PM
#151
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10-18-2009, 06:34 AM
#152
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I will be in Southern California next week, hopefully you'll have a confirmed resolution by then. If not, I may elect to visit the dealership personally and see what's taking so long.
10-19-2009, 06:03 PM
#156
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Thread Starter
Was it packed? Where did you stay? As long as you don't come back empty handed that's what matters. Sunday is the worst for the weekend. When you are down you squeeze in a quick gamble on Sunday and blow everything away loool
10-20-2009, 10:02 PM
#157
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Ok results are in. The consumption test says I am consuming 0.14 liters within 1,000 (620 miles) kilometers.
They also found that there was oil leaking from the PCV. They are suspecting that since before I was leaking oil from the Oil Breather and also from the Rear Camplug that all this added was the reason why I was loosing soo much oil.
Here is the rate that I am burning It's Quarts to Miles:
Quarts Miles
0.1480 = 620
0.2959 = 1240
0.4439 = 1860
0.5919 = 2480
0.7398 = 3100
0.8878 = 3720
1.0357 = 4340
1.1837 = 4960
1.3317 = 5580
1.4796 = 6200
1.6276 = 6820
1.7756 = 7440
1.9235 = 8060
2.0715 = 8680
2.2194 = 9300
2.3674 = 9920
2.5154 = 10540
2.6633 = 11160
2.8113 = 11780
2.9593 = 12400
3.1072 = 13020
They also found that there was oil leaking from the PCV. They are suspecting that since before I was leaking oil from the Oil Breather and also from the Rear Camplug that all this added was the reason why I was loosing soo much oil.
Here is the rate that I am burning It's Quarts to Miles:
Quarts Miles
0.1480 = 620
0.2959 = 1240
0.4439 = 1860
0.5919 = 2480
0.7398 = 3100
0.8878 = 3720
1.0357 = 4340
1.1837 = 4960
1.3317 = 5580
1.4796 = 6200
1.6276 = 6820
1.7756 = 7440
1.9235 = 8060
2.0715 = 8680
2.2194 = 9300
2.3674 = 9920
2.5154 = 10540
2.6633 = 11160
2.8113 = 11780
2.9593 = 12400
3.1072 = 13020
10-21-2009, 12:27 AM
#158
MBWorld Fanatic!
So your car is not burning oil? 3 quarts between changes is ridiculous. I checked mine again today digitally. At 9,500 miles since last change my car oil level has dropped .4L - and I drive the crap out of it.
10-21-2009, 01:20 AM
#159
MBWorld Fanatic!
And from what I hear, the 2005 C230 Kompressor cars are the ones that normally burn oil. Very rarely does the C350 burn oil. Then again, the C230K has to work harder since it doesn't have the power the C350 has, the C230K is a freely-revving car, which would cause it to burn oil.
10-21-2009, 01:49 AM
#160
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I'm stuck now guys. I'll just wait and see what happens. Atleast now it's documented.
Eric (e1000), you have the same C350 as me. If your light comes on, how many miles to the interval does it come on?
That's a killer difference than my car.
.4 l at 9,500 rather than .4 at 1,xxx
Patrick, I agree I can't imagine an engine burning 1 qt every 4,500 miles.
I was on different car sites to see the standard.
GM = 1qt every 1000 miles.
MB = .8 L every 1000 km (.844 qt every 621 miles)
Nissan = Engine Should Not Burn Any Oil
Seems like MB has been smoking too much crack. Lets break that down to the whole interval.
This is what MB Accepts as Normal Oil Consumption anything over is "Excessive"
0.8444 = 621
1.6888 = 1242
2.5332 = 1863
3.3776 = 2484
4.222 = 3105
5.0664 = 3726
5.9108 = 4347
6.7552 = 4968
7.5996 = 5589
8.444 = 6210
9.2884 = 6831
10.1328 = 7452
10.9772 = 8073
11.8216 = 8694
12.666 = 9315
13.5104 = 9936
14.3548 = 10557
15.1992 = 11178
16.0436 = 11799
16.888 = 12420
17.7324 = 13041
Here is mine.
0.1480 = 620
0.2959 = 1240
0.4439 = 1860
0.5919 = 2480
0.7398 = 3100
0.8878 = 3720
1.0357 = 4340
1.1837 = 4960
1.3317 = 5580
1.4796 = 6200
1.6276 = 6820
1.7756 = 7440
1.9235 = 8060
2.0715 = 8680
2.2194 = 9300
2.3674 = 9920
2.5154 = 10540
2.6633 = 11160
2.8113 = 11780
2.9593 = 12400
3.1072 = 13020
Eric (e1000), you have the same C350 as me. If your light comes on, how many miles to the interval does it come on?
.4 l at 9,500 rather than .4 at 1,xxx
Patrick, I agree I can't imagine an engine burning 1 qt every 4,500 miles.
I was on different car sites to see the standard.
GM = 1qt every 1000 miles.
MB = .8 L every 1000 km (.844 qt every 621 miles)
Nissan = Engine Should Not Burn Any Oil
Seems like MB has been smoking too much crack. Lets break that down to the whole interval.
This is what MB Accepts as Normal Oil Consumption anything over is "Excessive"
0.8444 = 621
1.6888 = 1242
2.5332 = 1863
3.3776 = 2484
4.222 = 3105
5.0664 = 3726
5.9108 = 4347
6.7552 = 4968
7.5996 = 5589
8.444 = 6210
9.2884 = 6831
10.1328 = 7452
10.9772 = 8073
11.8216 = 8694
12.666 = 9315
13.5104 = 9936
14.3548 = 10557
15.1992 = 11178
16.0436 = 11799
16.888 = 12420
17.7324 = 13041
Here is mine.
0.1480 = 620
0.2959 = 1240
0.4439 = 1860
0.5919 = 2480
0.7398 = 3100
0.8878 = 3720
1.0357 = 4340
1.1837 = 4960
1.3317 = 5580
1.4796 = 6200
1.6276 = 6820
1.7756 = 7440
1.9235 = 8060
2.0715 = 8680
2.2194 = 9300
2.3674 = 9920
2.5154 = 10540
2.6633 = 11160
2.8113 = 11780
2.9593 = 12400
3.1072 = 13020
10-21-2009, 02:01 AM
#161
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a quarter mile at a time
I'm stuck now guys. I'll just wait and see what happens. Atleast now it's documented.
Eric (e1000), you have the same C350 as me. If your light comes on, how many miles to the interval does it come on?
That's a killer difference than my car.
.4 l at 9,500 rather than .4 at 1,xxx
Patrick, I agree I can't imagine an engine burning 1 qt every 4,500 miles.
I was on different car sites to see the standard.
GM = 1qt every 1000 miles.
MB = .8 L every 1000 km (.844 qt every 621 miles)
Nissan = Engine Should Not Burn Any Oil
Seems like MB has been smoking too much crack. Lets break that down to the whole interval.
This is what MB Accepts as Normal Oil Consumption anything over is "Excessive"
0.8444 = 621
1.6888 = 1242
2.5332 = 1863
3.3776 = 2484
4.222 = 3105
5.0664 = 3726
5.9108 = 4347
6.7552 = 4968
7.5996 = 5589
8.444 = 6210
9.2884 = 6831
10.1328 = 7452
10.9772 = 8073
11.8216 = 8694
12.666 = 9315
13.5104 = 9936
14.3548 = 10557
15.1992 = 11178
16.0436 = 11799
16.888 = 12420
17.7324 = 13041
Here is mine.
0.1480 = 620
0.2959 = 1240
0.4439 = 1860
0.5919 = 2480
0.7398 = 3100
0.8878 = 3720
1.0357 = 4340
1.1837 = 4960
1.3317 = 5580
1.4796 = 6200
1.6276 = 6820
1.7756 = 7440
1.9235 = 8060
2.0715 = 8680
2.2194 = 9300
2.3674 = 9920
2.5154 = 10540
2.6633 = 11160
2.8113 = 11780
2.9593 = 12400
3.1072 = 13020
Eric (e1000), you have the same C350 as me. If your light comes on, how many miles to the interval does it come on?
That's a killer difference than my car.
.4 l at 9,500 rather than .4 at 1,xxx
Patrick, I agree I can't imagine an engine burning 1 qt every 4,500 miles.
I was on different car sites to see the standard.
GM = 1qt every 1000 miles.
MB = .8 L every 1000 km (.844 qt every 621 miles)
Nissan = Engine Should Not Burn Any Oil
Seems like MB has been smoking too much crack. Lets break that down to the whole interval.
This is what MB Accepts as Normal Oil Consumption anything over is "Excessive"
0.8444 = 621
1.6888 = 1242
2.5332 = 1863
3.3776 = 2484
4.222 = 3105
5.0664 = 3726
5.9108 = 4347
6.7552 = 4968
7.5996 = 5589
8.444 = 6210
9.2884 = 6831
10.1328 = 7452
10.9772 = 8073
11.8216 = 8694
12.666 = 9315
13.5104 = 9936
14.3548 = 10557
15.1992 = 11178
16.0436 = 11799
16.888 = 12420
17.7324 = 13041
Here is mine.
0.1480 = 620
0.2959 = 1240
0.4439 = 1860
0.5919 = 2480
0.7398 = 3100
0.8878 = 3720
1.0357 = 4340
1.1837 = 4960
1.3317 = 5580
1.4796 = 6200
1.6276 = 6820
1.7756 = 7440
1.9235 = 8060
2.0715 = 8680
2.2194 = 9300
2.3674 = 9920
2.5154 = 10540
2.6633 = 11160
2.8113 = 11780
2.9593 = 12400
3.1072 = 13020
10-21-2009, 02:07 AM
#162
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Now this is getting me worried. What do you guys think I should do?
I'm soo stuck and plus I have a feeling the dealer coasted it during the consumption test.
I'm soo stuck and plus I have a feeling the dealer coasted it during the consumption test.
10-21-2009, 02:09 AM
#163
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a quarter mile at a time
I'd say you should see how bad it is after they've fixed all 3 leaks. If you lose a quart or so between oil changes I wouldn't worry. Just my opinion.
10-21-2009, 02:16 AM
#164
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
What about 3?
With the results my estimation is 3 quarts till oil change.
I'll drive it till I get a light. Will the consumption become worse as time goes by?
With the results my estimation is 3 quarts till oil change.
I'll drive it till I get a light. Will the consumption become worse as time goes by?
10-21-2009, 02:22 AM
#165
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I found this great article and Glyn is right I should make them do a Leakdown test.
I'll just go pay for a Leakdown test atleast I can sleep better at nights knowing that I did not have a problem or I did have a problem and I had MB fix it.
http://autotechrepair.suite101.com/article.cfm/032106
I'll just go pay for a Leakdown test atleast I can sleep better at nights knowing that I did not have a problem or I did have a problem and I had MB fix it.
http://autotechrepair.suite101.com/article.cfm/032106
Why Does an Engine Use Oil?
There are only two ways for oil to get inside the combustion chamber. Oil comes in either through the valve seals or up past the piston rings. It is easy to determine which by doing a wet/dry compression test. Bad valve seals will show no improvement in compression with the wet compression test.
A valve seal seals the valve stem and prevents oil from going through the valve guide and into the combustion chamber. Over time, these seals can wear out and need to be replaced. In most cases this is a relatively easy job, and can be done without removing the cylinder heads.
There are only two ways for oil to get inside the combustion chamber. Oil comes in either through the valve seals or up past the piston rings. It is easy to determine which by doing a wet/dry compression test. Bad valve seals will show no improvement in compression with the wet compression test.
A valve seal seals the valve stem and prevents oil from going through the valve guide and into the combustion chamber. Over time, these seals can wear out and need to be replaced. In most cases this is a relatively easy job, and can be done without removing the cylinder heads.
Piston rings require an engine overhaul to correct. The pistons have to come out, ring lands have to be checked and cleaned, and the cylinder walls have to be inspected for scoring, pitting and roundness. If all is well, the cylinder wall is honed and new piston ring installed. This will correct that cause of oil burning.
Worn out piston rings are indicated when there is a 15% to 20% increase in compression in a wet compression test.
Another source of oil leaks, but not as noticeable, is the rear main crankshaft seal. This seal leak can be difficult to spot because it is between the engine and transmission, and oil can collect in the bell housing of the transmission and not be easily noticed. Most rear main seals are easily replaced, but it does require the transmission be removed to replace it.
Worn out piston rings are indicated when there is a 15% to 20% increase in compression in a wet compression test.
Another source of oil leaks, but not as noticeable, is the rear main crankshaft seal. This seal leak can be difficult to spot because it is between the engine and transmission, and oil can collect in the bell housing of the transmission and not be easily noticed. Most rear main seals are easily replaced, but it does require the transmission be removed to replace it.
10-21-2009, 04:46 AM
#166
Super Moderator
Karo - Their 200 mile oil consumption test is nonesense. Weighing oil in & out is very accurate but getting it out of the engine to weigh is not. A few degrees temperature difference will effect how much they drain. If you were leaking what you are loosing you would have oil dripping off the cover plate & blowing down the underside of the car. As I said before if you have a captive PCV problem you could use oil that way because it's being fed into the inlet system or blown past the rings & burnt. Let them do their PCV check.
A Leakdown test is all that will tell if you have a worn engine with the greatest of respect for my dear friend splinter.
Don't loose hope. Do a Leakdown test. If it passes that then you know you have nothing to worry about. If it fails that then Benz have something to worry about. A wet & dry compression test is OK but less accurate than a Leakdown test. It won't give you a leak rate past the valve stems/guides.
I have crossed swords with many a Benz National Service Manager/Director over their old 1% of fuel consumption measure.
IMHO the reason they try & duck the leakdown test is that they have no room to duck the issue if the engine fails it & it requires effort.
Good Luck!
A Leakdown test is all that will tell if you have a worn engine with the greatest of respect for my dear friend splinter.
Don't loose hope. Do a Leakdown test. If it passes that then you know you have nothing to worry about. If it fails that then Benz have something to worry about. A wet & dry compression test is OK but less accurate than a Leakdown test. It won't give you a leak rate past the valve stems/guides.
I have crossed swords with many a Benz National Service Manager/Director over their old 1% of fuel consumption measure.
IMHO the reason they try & duck the leakdown test is that they have no room to duck the issue if the engine fails it & it requires effort.
Good Luck!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-21-2009 at 05:20 AM.
10-21-2009, 04:56 AM
#167
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Glyn Always to the Rescue!!
I will have a Leakdown test done sometime this week and will give you an update.
Thanks sooo much Glyn, I owe you big time.
Update coming soon
I will have a Leakdown test done sometime this week and will give you an update.
Thanks sooo much Glyn, I owe you big time.
Update coming soon
10-21-2009, 05:04 AM
#168
Super Moderator
BTW - anyone that thinks it's OK to burn 17.7 quarts between oil changes is on some powerful stuff 
That blows all credibility with me.
My car uses no measureable amount of oil between oil changes & it's a 240 so revving it is the only way to make it go - so I rev it all the time. splinter reports the same from his C32 & is known for enthusiastic driving
- OK these are 112 engines. e1000 says his 272 does not use oil & it has the extra valve per cylinder which is 6 more places for the engine to use oil.
The only time my engine used a little oil was during bed in. It used under 1 litre up to it's first 15,000Km service & blew a little puff of smoke on start up in the first few 1000 Kms.
EDIT - also remember - If it passes the Leakdown test you will have to live with it with peace of mind that there is nothing worn. Might have to modify the driving style or recheck the PCV system to ensure it's not building up crankcase pressure.
That blows all credibility with me.My car uses no measureable amount of oil between oil changes & it's a 240 so revving it is the only way to make it go - so I rev it all the time. splinter reports the same from his C32 & is known for enthusiastic driving
- OK these are 112 engines. e1000 says his 272 does not use oil & it has the extra valve per cylinder which is 6 more places for the engine to use oil.The only time my engine used a little oil was during bed in. It used under 1 litre up to it's first 15,000Km service & blew a little puff of smoke on start up in the first few 1000 Kms.
EDIT - also remember - If it passes the Leakdown test you will have to live with it with peace of mind that there is nothing worn. Might have to modify the driving style or recheck the PCV system to ensure it's not building up crankcase pressure.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-21-2009 at 06:22 PM.
10-21-2009, 05:18 AM
#169
Super Moderator
Sorry for all the posts. Make sure you find someone competent at Leakdown testing that will compile the results in a challenge proof fashion.
10-21-2009, 05:30 AM
#170
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Thanks again Glyn and everyone for contributing to finding out what my problem is. It sounds simple right? I mean I'm loosing oil and not a lot of oil has leaked out (where did the oil go?) but with these dealers it's not as easy as it sounds.
Maybe there was a leak and maybe there wasn't
. Maybe they drove my car without going over 3k RPM and maybe they revved it all the way? Maybe they think "ohh we'll just say it's ok and that this is normal and brush this kid off" but I have an army (online army ) standing behind me.
I will come back with an update soon.
Special Thanks To: (order doesn't distinguish anything lol)
Glyn M Ruck
e1000
Patrick Y
LILBENZ230
Johnand
Meverik259
Samaritrey
holycaoAMG
Splinter
I appreciate all your help guys
Leakdown test and I will go from there.
but with these dealers it's not as easy as it sounds. Maybe there was a leak and maybe there wasn't
. Maybe they drove my car without going over 3k RPM and maybe they revved it all the way? Maybe they think "ohh we'll just say it's ok and that this is normal and brush this kid off" but I have an army (online army ) standing behind me.I will come back with an update soon.
Special Thanks To: (order doesn't distinguish anything lol)
Glyn M Ruck
e1000
Patrick Y
LILBENZ230
Johnand
Meverik259
Samaritrey
holycaoAMG
Splinter
I appreciate all your help guys
Leakdown test and I will go from there.
Last edited by W203E35; 10-21-2009 at 05:51 AM.
10-21-2009, 06:08 AM
#171
Super Moderator
You owe me nothing - we all help one another here & you have helped me as you know with the IT stuff. You have had lots of sensible input on this thread from other's. As implied by splinter I tend to be a little dogmatic about my opinions on things - some through experience but some through impatience & wanting to cut through the crap. Probably not my best trait.
10-21-2009, 11:50 AM
#172
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a quarter mile at a time
Glyn that's exactly how my engine behaved. Used a bit of oil, maybe a quart and half over the span of an oil change interval. During that time my exhaust tip would get a bit of soot. After a couple months, no soot, no oil consumption at all. And trust me when I say I drive "spirited".
Also, if your car burns 17 qt or L over 13K miles, why even go in for oil changes???????
Also, if your car burns 17 qt or L over 13K miles, why even go in for oil changes???????
10-21-2009, 06:21 PM
#173
Super Moderator
Well absolutely e - Your car would be having a perpetual oil change - What BS!
My car has the standard turned down exhaust tips so I've never looked at sooting. Man I wish I was still living in the US. I would love to have a go at MBUSA from a personal & oil company perspective. We collectively would make idiots out of them - 18 quarts per 13,000 miles - get real!!! This is not the Torrey Canyon or Exxon Valdez!!!
My car has the standard turned down exhaust tips so I've never looked at sooting. Man I wish I was still living in the US. I would love to have a go at MBUSA from a personal & oil company perspective. We collectively would make idiots out of them - 18 quarts per 13,000 miles - get real!!! This is not the Torrey Canyon or Exxon Valdez!!!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 10-21-2009 at 06:45 PM.
10-22-2009, 12:26 AM
#174
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a quarter mile at a time
Well absolutely e - Your car would be having a perpetual oil change - What BS!
My car has the standard turned down exhaust tips so I've never looked at sooting. Man I wish I was still living in the US. I would love to have a go at MBUSA from a personal & oil company perspective. We collectively would make idiots out of them - 18 quarts per 13,000 miles - get real!!! This is not the Torrey Canyon or Exxon Valdez!!!
My car has the standard turned down exhaust tips so I've never looked at sooting. Man I wish I was still living in the US. I would love to have a go at MBUSA from a personal & oil company perspective. We collectively would make idiots out of them - 18 quarts per 13,000 miles - get real!!! This is not the Torrey Canyon or Exxon Valdez!!!
