LILBENZ230

Why would you be out driving with the car in dyno mode anyway? That leaves you with no ABS or ESP, two important safety nets.

zerocover

The car is drivable day to day, its not like its at the limit all the time. Unless I go out of my way to look for the cars limits I wont find it. I'd say I've only had 4 incidental o-**** moments since I've bought the car (too many IMHO).

I like the idea of a proper alignment shop that will also check the suspension components. In all honesty very few take pride in their cars, like they do on the west coast, here. I've only recently found a tire shop that does a half way decent job. That being said I know of many sub par alignment shops that just want to get the customer out asap. What should a good alignment cost so I have a baseline?

johnand

I was being a smart-***, since I have no room to talk about toning down the aggressive driving

You should be easily close to $100 or more for a good alignment. But, just because it is more expensive, doesn't mean it is better. When I had my car in for warranty work, I had the dealer align my car at the price of $125. The steering wheel was off center and the car was very twitchy when I got it back. I had to take it in 2 more times, and watch over the tech doing the alignment to get it "almost" right.

If you have any race type shops, or know of guys that track their car, ask around to see who they recommend for alignment.

Glyn M Ruck

I hear you John. This is a 4Matic & I hope Zero is only pushing this hard on dry roads. If he does this in the wet he's going to end up in the ditch or worse. I think much of the problem is driver induced as Ed & you say. Tyres working well on RW drive does not translate to working well on AWD as Audi & WRX owners will attest to..

I think we need to give Zero a bigger safety net if he will spend the money.

Heavier front sway bar
Stiffer dampers all round & check that present dampers are in fact OK
Keep ALL of the nannies turned ON.
Consider a better tyre/wheel set up
Play with higher tyre pressure. You can't afford the sidewall folding in this situation.
(maybe we should consider a Sprintbooster in reverse Throttle attenuator)

If he does not do this then back off the loud pedal big time. Stop point, squirt & jab driving.

I think that Whiteongrey's comments from the 204 forum are a bit over the top but still partially valid. As I've said before the DWS has had a luke warm reception in SA & obviously the criticism is dry weather related in the main because we don't have snow etc. to contend with. We have rainy winters in the Cape & mid afternoon thunder storms on the Highveld in summer. Are South African drivers cowboys on the road - in one word YES!

I'm not being a snob but I find it hard to believe that a 96 buck non TUV approved tyre can truly compete with the heavies. I have no personal experience of the DWS on a Merc. I have a RWD Merc. My reference summer tyre is as everyone knows - a PS2.

I'll look up part numbers for the older bushings.

johnand

That post makes me laugh. He is trying to compare the winter traction of an UHP A/S tire (Conti DWS) to a dedicated winter tire (Dunlop 3D) No A/S tire is going to even come close to performing as well as a winter tire in winter. All tires compromise somewhere, you just have to figure out where you are comfortable compromising, or have 2 sets of dedicated summer/winter tires. His review of the DWS tires is completely opposite of the majority of past and current owners.

As I have stated before and have no problem admitting, like Glyn, I am a Michelin fanboy (and not a Conti fanboy as this and a few of my latest posts may seem), and have had their Pilot A/S pluses on my car, and they are a great tire that I wouldn't hesitate recommending. But for me, the DWS's are so far a better fit for MY climate. Doesn't mean they are the right tire for everyone else.

If I had my way, I would have my current 07 wheels wrapped in Dunlop 3D's for winter, and a set of Carlsson 18" 1/16 BE wheels wrapped in Michelin PS2's for summer. That would be the perfect NO COMPROMISE tire choice for me. But, that is more expense and hassle than I care to have at this point in time. But, that what I would recommend Zerocover to do in his situation, considering his driving style and location. That would be the best place to start throwing money at the problem, IMO.

LILBENZ230

I'm not a fanboi of any tire brand in particular. I have experience with the following:

Kumho Ecsta ASX - on C230, 3.2TL, Camry, Accord, and Civic Si
Michelin Pilot PS2 - On Civic Si.
Conti DWS - On C230
Bridgestone RFT - On 135i
Michelin Primacy MXV4 - On Accord, C230, 3.2TL

In my experience the Michelins cost too much and don't last very long (PS2), the Primacy MXV4s suck major ***, the Ecsta ASX is a fantastic tire, the DWS holds up better over 20k miles than the ASX, and the Bridgestone Run-Flats are made of concrete.

Velociabstract

If you can fit a wider tire on the back it will help. You could also widen the track with spacers, either will give more grip in the rear. I like the bigger front sway bar idea best.

Les

Glyn M Ruck

Yes - a post with a kernal of truth ruined by an incongruous rant.

For the rest - how could I possibly argue

Glyn M Ruck

Yes Matt, but we know you are cheap

Seriously though - splinter & I were discussing on PM many months back the issue of people on this forum tending to buy cheaper tyres than the cars deserve. This at the time I was fitting my new wheels & PS2's - I was asking advice on sizing for front strut clearance.

I think the real issue is that Benz vehicles are so cheap in the US that people treat them like a Chevy Impala.

In the ROW we pay so much for the darn things that fitting a set of premium tyres is hardly a cost consideration - we expect that for tyres.

zerocover

I don't want to run staggered so spacers are a great idea. I know my wheels are closer together then with the factory wheels. Maybe some H&R 12mm spacers will correct any suspension irregularity. (why 12mm 1. I dont want to do the whole 2 levels of bolts thing 2. It lets me use my factory bolts)

Velociabstract

I kinda sorta figured that you had changed something since most cars understeer. Make sure you have 12 mm of clearance first. Even with hub centric spacers you need to torque in steps or you may end up with a slight vibration. I have hub centric spacers on the front so I'm advising from first hand experience.

Les

TemjinX2

just check your tie rod and front suspension bushings. Crack bushings can give off a feeling of poor handling. You should be understeering at the limit since your on stock suspension and awd by nature understeers.

Glyn M Ruck

+1

e24kgold

I have to work like hell to get the back end on mine out, even with esp off.

LILBENZ230

Hey Glyn, paying more for something doesn't always make it better. I don't see spending money unnecessarily to be a smart idea regardless of what it is on. If I can tell no noticeable difference in wet/dry traction, stopping distance, etc with a $900 set of Michelins (that last 20k miles) over my $550 set of DWS that will last twice as long, I think it's not being cheap - I think it's being smart.

Glyn M Ruck

I agree but I don't think that is the case. I don't believe that a non TUV qualified tyre will match the Michelin & I don't think the DWS will last twice as long as a PS2 A/S Plus. I'm afraid that splinter and I are of like mind in this regard.

Some believe that everything they have is the best. I don't. There are many things better than I have but I can't afford them.

On a cost no object basis I would drive an Aston Martin V12 Vantage.

LILBENZ230

Oh no, I don't believe the DWS tires are "the best" at all. I said I cannot tell a difference. And the PS2 A/S+ tires I had on the Civic Si made it 18k miles and they were not staggered and I rotated them at 6,000 and 12,000 before they were shot by 18,000. I'm also not saying that their short life made them bad. I'm saying that the short life, high price, and fact I couldn't detect any noticeable performance difference between them and the Ecsta ASX tires that replaced them meant they were not a smart buy.

It's not that I can't afford Michelins. It's that I am not going to pay 50% more for 5% better. The DWS tires on my C230 now are its 3rd set of tires with me (4th overall). It had Primacy MXV4s when I bought it @25k miles and the tires were relatively new. The rears made it 14k miles before they were gone and I just replaced all 4 with Ecsta ASXs @39k miles. Those lasted a perfect 30k miles and were excellent performers (though they were getting pretty noisy near the end). From 69k miles till my 89k now I've had on the DWS tires. They're holding up extremely well. I took photos for John at 16k miles of use. They're going to last 40k or better. All four tires still have the "S" on them indicating there is enough tread left for snow use, even after 20k of my hard miles.

I'm not doubting Michelin.. I'm just saying I've got 90% the performance, 200% the life, at 60% the cost and that sounds like a very good deal to me.

e24kgold

+1

Glyn M Ruck

I'm not denying deminished returns for your money as you get closer to perfection. God - I'm a high end audio freak where the principle applies in spades.

What I am saying is that we have a problem on a 4Matic here & RWD experience does not translate to AWD well. It's not one size fits all. My experience of 4Matics is that they have different handling characteristics to our RWD cousins. I prefer the 4Matic handling. Much as I love the handling of the new generation Audi Quattros