Interesting.... M3 S4 C32 comparo.... Germans mag says one thing American diff..
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Interesting.... M3 S4 C32 comparo.... Germans mag says one thing American diff..
IN the three car comparison in Car and Driver the C32 placed last and the M3 second and S4 1st.... In German car magazine Auto Bild, C32 came in first S4 in second, and M3 in third....
interesting....
interesting....
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Re: Interesting.... M3 S4 C32 comparo.... Germans mag says one thing American diff..
Originally posted by PHYBENZ
IN the three car comparison in Car and Driver the C32 placed last and the M3 second and S4 1st.... In German car magazine Auto Bild, C32 came in first S4 in second, and M3 in third....
interesting....
IN the three car comparison in Car and Driver the C32 placed last and the M3 second and S4 1st.... In German car magazine Auto Bild, C32 came in first S4 in second, and M3 in third....
interesting....
speed, quality, price....etc
Each mag could have had different ideas.
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I'm not saying that one mag is better than the other but, from my experience German mags tend to be more objective and not let advertisers have a input in the decision. The tests are also over 50% objective opinions. In terms of handling, interior, exterior, easy of use, etc etc. Its not like 0-60, or 1.4 miles times that are measurable with equipment.
in my opinion I would rather have the cars in this order C32, M3, S4. But I wouldn't mind having either of those cars. The C32 is a great all around car thats fast, the M3 is a sweet car (but they are everywhere around here now), the S4 is nice with the AWD, but its a V8 and not a turbo like it used to be.
in my opinion I would rather have the cars in this order C32, M3, S4. But I wouldn't mind having either of those cars. The C32 is a great all around car thats fast, the M3 is a sweet car (but they are everywhere around here now), the S4 is nice with the AWD, but its a V8 and not a turbo like it used to be.
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Yeah, I would expect the BMW to win in Car and Driver also. Maybe Audi is giving them lots of money now too. The RS6 also won over the E55, M5 and S-type R.
But those Audis sure seem nice. Timmy, what's wrong with the V8 in the S4? It's more powerful (I think) and there's no turbo lag to worry about, and they said it doesn't even weigh anymore.
As for the RS6, I saw a comparison in Automobile once and one of the things they measured was the acceleration force in G's. The E55 and M5 could do about .6-.7 G's or something like that. But the Audi with the all-wheel drive pulled 1.00 G on acceleration. That'll put you back in your seat.
I bet it makes it feel faster too.
But those Audis sure seem nice. Timmy, what's wrong with the V8 in the S4? It's more powerful (I think) and there's no turbo lag to worry about, and they said it doesn't even weigh anymore.
As for the RS6, I saw a comparison in Automobile once and one of the things they measured was the acceleration force in G's. The E55 and M5 could do about .6-.7 G's or something like that. But the Audi with the all-wheel drive pulled 1.00 G on acceleration. That'll put you back in your seat.
I bet it makes it feel faster too.
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I was surprised M3 wasnt ranked 1st as its an all around straight shootout and track handling winner. May its those numerous mysterious early engine failures 
I personally love the S4 but not sure about the new V8s. The old v6 bi-turbos with GIAC X chip and exhuast can do quarter under 12sec (under 11.5 even i think). 2 issues was the weight, crappy stock susp (same as A4!). Also the auto was kinda weak.
The new M3 engine is amazing 333hp N/A from a v6! i'm told its nice in either SMG or manual 6spd tranny. Looks good and priced less than both new v8 S4 and C32 i think.
Last, C32 is quick for what it is: an auto matic C320 with supercharger (i'm sure a few will argue about better tranny programming, susp, brakes, etc...but marginal stuff. If i want a fast, good looking, and comfortable automatic ride C32 is great.
I personally love the S4 but not sure about the new V8s. The old v6 bi-turbos with GIAC X chip and exhuast can do quarter under 12sec (under 11.5 even i think). 2 issues was the weight, crappy stock susp (same as A4!). Also the auto was kinda weak.
The new M3 engine is amazing 333hp N/A from a v6! i'm told its nice in either SMG or manual 6spd tranny. Looks good and priced less than both new v8 S4 and C32 i think.
Last, C32 is quick for what it is: an auto matic C320 with supercharger (i'm sure a few will argue about better tranny programming, susp, brakes, etc...but marginal stuff. If i want a fast, good looking, and comfortable automatic ride C32 is great.
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Originally posted by Matt230K
But those Audis sure seem nice. Timmy, what's wrong with the V8 in the S4? It's more powerful (I think) and there's no turbo lag to worry about, and they said it doesn't even weigh anymore.
But those Audis sure seem nice. Timmy, what's wrong with the V8 in the S4? It's more powerful (I think) and there's no turbo lag to worry about, and they said it doesn't even weigh anymore.
Its easy easy easy to mod, and still gets decent MPG. With a GIAC ot an APR chip you didnt have turbo lag either. if you want to spend the extra $6K you get 412hp and 482lbft in an 6spd AWD car. That will eat an M3 or C32 all day long. The V8 will be fine in the S4, just not as easy to mod, thats all.
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The Audi Turbo V-6 was a warranty service nightmare for the company and one that they are unlikely to repeat. The reliabilty simply sucked, especially with all the "enthusiats" chipping the engine. Audi should have told the jerks to take a flying leap when they came in for warranty repairs! Let's hope the S8 engine in the new S4 can make a better show of it.
Last edited by CRB; Apr 21, 2003 at 07:07 PM.
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Car & Driver aren't the only ones who always pick BMW, BMW seems to win in every magazine.
MotorTrend picked the M3 vert, M5 over the CLK55 AMG, E55 AMG. Road & Track named the M3 as the best vert between $50-$75 K. The 7-Series, M5, M3, 525i, & 3-Series have all won awards from Automobile Magazine.
BMW also routinely finishes 1st in Edmunds' comparos, & on the Editor's Most Wanted list. Even Consumers Report has the 5-Series & 3-Series as the top rated cars in their class. I guess BMW has the money to bribe everyone while others are all too cheap, & even Consumers Report is in on the conspiracy.
BMW is very good, especially at sports sedans. BMW shines in performance (performance also includes handling, braking, not just acceleration), Mercedes shines in comfort. How is C & D biased when BMW also does well in every magazine?
MotorTrend picked the M3 vert, M5 over the CLK55 AMG, E55 AMG. Road & Track named the M3 as the best vert between $50-$75 K. The 7-Series, M5, M3, 525i, & 3-Series have all won awards from Automobile Magazine.
BMW also routinely finishes 1st in Edmunds' comparos, & on the Editor's Most Wanted list. Even Consumers Report has the 5-Series & 3-Series as the top rated cars in their class. I guess BMW has the money to bribe everyone while others are all too cheap, & even Consumers Report is in on the conspiracy.
BMW is very good, especially at sports sedans. BMW shines in performance (performance also includes handling, braking, not just acceleration), Mercedes shines in comfort. How is C & D biased when BMW also does well in every magazine?
Last edited by J P; Apr 21, 2003 at 02:38 PM.
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Yeah, BMW's do get picked in a lot of magazine, but for some reason C&D is well known for picking them.
Bribery may be one of the reasons, it's hard to accuse them of that. Another reason is just that BMW's are more performance-oriented and car mag people love performance. So they are somewhat biased. BMW's are nice, but they're not the best for everybody just because they are fast.
Bribery may be one of the reasons, it's hard to accuse them of that. Another reason is just that BMW's are more performance-oriented and car mag people love performance. So they are somewhat biased. BMW's are nice, but they're not the best for everybody just because they are fast.
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Can't say how Volkswagons are getting up there, but yeah, they do perform great! I rode in a new A4 1.8T and it was great! the CVT Transmission makes the car a great comforatble ride. The bad side was that there were three people in the back and it wasn't a comfortable ride. I think the C sedan is the best ride for accomodating passengers. The panel on the C is definitely a lot more eye-appealing.
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C&D is a magazine devoted to the driver. It's in their title so of course they have natural bias towards BMW because that's where BMW does business.
The last S4 also beat the last M3 on head to head test with C&D. But then BMW responded with E46 M3 and blew the B5 S4 out the water. So this is not the first time Audi S4 has beat M3 at its own game. All this mean is that the next M3 better knock the socks off the new S4
BTW, I agree with the comment about back seat on the S4/A4. My C Coupe has more room for back seat passenger than my A4... Fortunately I never sit in the back so I don't care... ha ha.
The last S4 also beat the last M3 on head to head test with C&D. But then BMW responded with E46 M3 and blew the B5 S4 out the water. So this is not the first time Audi S4 has beat M3 at its own game. All this mean is that the next M3 better knock the socks off the new S4
BTW, I agree with the comment about back seat on the S4/A4. My C Coupe has more room for back seat passenger than my A4... Fortunately I never sit in the back so I don't care... ha ha.
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Originally posted by bzcat
C&D is a magazine devoted to the driver. It's in their title so of course they have natural bias towards BMW because that's where BMW does business.
C&D is a magazine devoted to the driver. It's in their title so of course they have natural bias towards BMW because that's where BMW does business.
I loved my Audi A4. I had the 99.5 (which i think had the best look BTW 99.5 to 2000.5 models....projector headlights, clear around, red/white tail lites). If i didnt screw up the susp. i woulda kept the car. loved the ergonomics and the all red LED interior. The tiptronic tranny coulda been a bit more aggressive though....havent test drove one with CVT. When my lease is up i'm thinking of going back to Audi: hopefully the new TT32 with 6spd SMG
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there's another German magazine, which they have a TV show on PBS or some other channel tested all three. S4 came in first, C32 second, and M3 came in the last place.
different ppl like different cars I guess. Car and Driver tend to always choose a car that does better on the track as their top pick.
I have no idea what the hell is Motor Trend doing tho. They voted T-Bird car of the year in 02, PT crusier in 01, and Lincoln LS in 2000. Three POS, IMO, made their Car of the year pick. The only Car of the Year pick I agree with them is probably back in 97 when they picked the 5-series.
different ppl like different cars I guess. Car and Driver tend to always choose a car that does better on the track as their top pick.
I have no idea what the hell is Motor Trend doing tho. They voted T-Bird car of the year in 02, PT crusier in 01, and Lincoln LS in 2000. Three POS, IMO, made their Car of the year pick. The only Car of the Year pick I agree with them is probably back in 97 when they picked the 5-series.
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n/a engines are more expensive to tune for performance than turbocharged engines... simple up the boost can bring in great bang for the buck. bmw is the track car, c32 is the grand touring, and s4 is the all-weather/all-terrain (sorta) conquering car slotted in between...jah?
bmw doens't make v6. that's an inline-6. massaged so much they couldn't compete with porsche's flat-6 that they went and hijacked the v8 to compete in the alms.
direct-shift gearbox (DSG)
Originally posted by tberry
The new M3 engine is amazing 333hp N/A from a v6!
The new M3 engine is amazing 333hp N/A from a v6!
Originally posted by tberry
the new TT32 with 6spd SMG
the new TT32 with 6spd SMG
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Originally posted by steve s
bmw doens't make v6. that's an inline-6. massaged so much they couldn't compete with porsche's flat-6 that they went and hijacked the v8 to compete in the alms.
direct-shift gearbox (DSG)
bmw doens't make v6. that's an inline-6. massaged so much they couldn't compete with porsche's flat-6 that they went and hijacked the v8 to compete in the alms.
direct-shift gearbox (DSG)
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i think the reason bmw gets first because it has its class and it has its sportyness...mercedes is a bit too luxurious..for example they should make a manual tranny on the c32 and put better suspension parts but keep the luxurious feel so u can cruise the strip nicely then go up the mountain and rip **** up
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Originally posted by c32god
i think the reason bmw gets first because it has its class and it has its sportyness...mercedes is a bit too luxurious..for example they should make a manual tranny on the c32 and put better suspension parts but keep the luxurious feel so u can cruise the strip nicely then go up the mountain and rip **** up
i think the reason bmw gets first because it has its class and it has its sportyness...mercedes is a bit too luxurious..for example they should make a manual tranny on the c32 and put better suspension parts but keep the luxurious feel so u can cruise the strip nicely then go up the mountain and rip **** up
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Originally posted by steve s
n/a engines are more expensive to tune for performance than turbocharged engines... simple up the boost can bring in great bang for the buck. bmw is the track car, c32 is the grand touring, and s4 is the all-weather/all-terrain (sorta) conquering car slotted in between...jah?
bmw doens't make v6. that's an inline-6. massaged so much they couldn't compete with porsche's flat-6 that they went and hijacked the v8 to compete in the alms.
n/a engines are more expensive to tune for performance than turbocharged engines... simple up the boost can bring in great bang for the buck. bmw is the track car, c32 is the grand touring, and s4 is the all-weather/all-terrain (sorta) conquering car slotted in between...jah?
bmw doens't make v6. that's an inline-6. massaged so much they couldn't compete with porsche's flat-6 that they went and hijacked the v8 to compete in the alms.
I agree that n/a engines are more expensive to TUNE for performance than a turbo engine. But a N/A V8 engine is inherently packing a lot of performance, so there isn't much to TUNE, per se. Turbos require much more development with engine management, boost control, intercooler work than a n/a engine. And simply 'upping the boost' on a turbo will bring great bang for the buck in more ways that one (great bang when the engine blows up). Check out audiworld for many experiences on this.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'hijacked the v8'. That engine wasn't hijacked from any other vehicle, but designed specifically for the M3 in ALMS. And the reason why the I-6 couldn't compete with porsche's flat-6 was the porsche's displacement advantage (3.6l vs 3.2l). Which is what caused BMW to start using a V8 in the car (not sure - but believe it was a 3.9l)
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just a guess
Originally posted by Matt230K
Yeah, BMW's do get picked in a lot of magazine, but for some reason C&D is well known for picking them.
Bribery may be one of the reasons, it's hard to accuse them of that. Another reason is just that BMW's are more performance-oriented and car mag people love performance. So they are somewhat biased. BMW's are nice, but they're not the best for everybody just because they are fast.
Yeah, BMW's do get picked in a lot of magazine, but for some reason C&D is well known for picking them.
Bribery may be one of the reasons, it's hard to accuse them of that. Another reason is just that BMW's are more performance-oriented and car mag people love performance. So they are somewhat biased. BMW's are nice, but they're not the best for everybody just because they are fast.
Seems unlikely that BMW can be bribing EVERY magazine in the world, especially since Consumer Reports is known for refusing advertising/sponsoring of any other company and is also known for their very conservative reviews/ratings...and yet they still rank the 3series and 5series best in class. Oh yea, this is along with most Euro mags I read and C&D, R&T, Edmunds, MT. I guess it is just one big conspiracy plot by BMW. And BMW does get beat in comparison tests by Acura, Audi, MB (E320 barely beat the 530 in C&D recently). I think it's great that other car manufactures are competing well with each other. Most comparisons are all pretty close and depending on your priorities you might prefer a different car than the #1 ranked car. There's something for everyone. All this competition just makes the cars better, and the car buyers all benefit from it.
