1st Time Benz Owner... Proud but sad
12-15-2010, 05:32 PM
#76
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Car looks clean. Good choice on the C class. 07 model looks the best IMO. Those factory wheels really suite the care well.
12-15-2010, 07:31 PM
#77
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Whatever you guys are on please pass it.
My girlfriend has a TL type S. For the money it comes very nicely equipped and hers is fully loaded w/ navi etc. That being said it's a cheap car. It looks nice on the outside and has a nice interior but the designers are pinching pennies everywhere. Has anyone here had to replace a turn signal light? Its hell on earth, plastic everywhere with clips that break instantly. Try replacing the cabin air filter. To get it out you have to pull out the glove box take apart part of the dash then cut out the door holding it in, understand the cabin air filter door was cast as one part with the fire wall cover so to replace it you need to use drywall screws (as per the manual) to hold the door back on. Let that sink in to save $0.10 the honda guys made sure to make the most basic maintenance hell. You wont find that in a European car. To recap the TL looks nice on the surface but just underneath is the surface cheapest econo-box you can find.
My girlfriend has a TL type S. For the money it comes very nicely equipped and hers is fully loaded w/ navi etc. That being said it's a cheap car. It looks nice on the outside and has a nice interior but the designers are pinching pennies everywhere. Has anyone here had to replace a turn signal light? Its hell on earth, plastic everywhere with clips that break instantly. Try replacing the cabin air filter. To get it out you have to pull out the glove box take apart part of the dash then cut out the door holding it in, understand the cabin air filter door was cast as one part with the fire wall cover so to replace it you need to use drywall screws (as per the manual) to hold the door back on. Let that sink in to save $0.10 the honda guys made sure to make the most basic maintenance hell. You wont find that in a European car. To recap the TL looks nice on the surface but just underneath is the surface cheapest econo-box you can find.
That being said the performance is a joke, its a nice car to drive as long as you drive it slow and gentle. Any more then 1/4 gas and your spinning up the tires, not in a good way either (remember FWD). Seems powerful right, to be fair its pretty quick in a perfectly strait line if your planting your foot on the gas from 0. The car is heavy and the suspension is garbage. Turns I take without a second thought leave the TL going sideways. You cannot forget that its a boat of a car with all the weight on the front end, and it is not fun to drive. FWD works well on smaller lighter cars but once the car gets to a certain weight its a major liability.
The car is heavy? Let's compare weight.
3,559lbs for an 08 TL-S w/Nav
3,655lbs for an 07 C280 4Matic
The suspension is garbage?
The TL has a four-wheel independent double-wishbone suspension.
The TL-S is exponentially more sporty than a C280 4Matic which is the second least sporty W203 there is (behind the C240 4Matic). If you can't drive it, that's fine. But don't blame the car - it makes you look bad.
Cale - the TL-S has 256lb-ft of torque and the TL has 233. It's interesting you felt it was lacking torque given that 233 is 52lb-ft (a major advantage) more than a C230 V6.
12-15-2010, 07:33 PM
#78
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Lets clear some things up.
1. A TL is absolutely NOT gutless. Short of a C350, C32 or a C55, it will handily embarass other w203's by a good margin. The vanilla Gen3 TL is a bit slower than a C350, but definitely not by much. I've never personally raced a Gen 3 TL Type-S or Gen 4 but I'd imagine it would be a very good race (with the C350
)
2. It's front wheel drive layout is it's largest downfall. Like almost all hondas, it's front heavy, front wheel drive and will just plow with understeer when pushed hard. Of course, that's not what a TL is made for...... and no SH-AWD isn't a real solution.
3. TL's, and Japanese luxury cars in general, often have much better options and creature comforts than thier German counterparts.
1. A TL is absolutely NOT gutless. Short of a C350, C32 or a C55, it will handily embarass other w203's by a good margin. The vanilla Gen3 TL is a bit slower than a C350, but definitely not by much. I've never personally raced a Gen 3 TL Type-S or Gen 4 but I'd imagine it would be a very good race (with the C350
)2. It's front wheel drive layout is it's largest downfall. Like almost all hondas, it's front heavy, front wheel drive and will just plow with understeer when pushed hard. Of course, that's not what a TL is made for...... and no SH-AWD isn't a real solution.
3. TL's, and Japanese luxury cars in general, often have much better options and creature comforts than thier German counterparts.
12-15-2010, 07:48 PM
#79
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Whatever you guys are on please pass it.
My girlfriend has a TL type S. For the money it comes very nicely equipped and hers is fully loaded w/ navi etc. That being said it's a cheap car. It looks nice on the outside and has a nice interior but the designers are pinching pennies everywhere. Has anyone here had to replace a turn signal light? Its hell on earth, plastic everywhere with clips that break instantly. Try replacing the cabin air filter. To get it out you have to pull out the glove box take apart part of the dash then cut out the door holding it in, understand the cabin air filter door was cast as one part with the fire wall cover so to replace it you need to use drywall screws (as per the manual) to hold the door back on. Let that sink in to save $0.10 the honda guys made sure to make the most basic maintenance hell. You wont find that in a European car. To recap the TL looks nice on the surface but just underneath is the surface cheapest econo-box you can find.
That being said the performance is a joke, its a nice car to drive as long as you drive it slow and gentle. Any more then 1/4 gas and your spinning up the tires, not in a good way either (remember FWD). Seems powerful right, to be fair its pretty quick in a perfectly strait line if your planting your foot on the gas from 0. The car is heavy and the suspension is garbage. Turns I take without a second thought leave the TL going sideways. You cannot forget that its a boat of a car with all the weight on the front end, and it is not fun to drive. FWD works well on smaller lighter cars but once the car gets to a certain weight its a major liability.
My girlfriend has a TL type S. For the money it comes very nicely equipped and hers is fully loaded w/ navi etc. That being said it's a cheap car. It looks nice on the outside and has a nice interior but the designers are pinching pennies everywhere. Has anyone here had to replace a turn signal light? Its hell on earth, plastic everywhere with clips that break instantly. Try replacing the cabin air filter. To get it out you have to pull out the glove box take apart part of the dash then cut out the door holding it in, understand the cabin air filter door was cast as one part with the fire wall cover so to replace it you need to use drywall screws (as per the manual) to hold the door back on. Let that sink in to save $0.10 the honda guys made sure to make the most basic maintenance hell. You wont find that in a European car. To recap the TL looks nice on the surface but just underneath is the surface cheapest econo-box you can find.
That being said the performance is a joke, its a nice car to drive as long as you drive it slow and gentle. Any more then 1/4 gas and your spinning up the tires, not in a good way either (remember FWD). Seems powerful right, to be fair its pretty quick in a perfectly strait line if your planting your foot on the gas from 0. The car is heavy and the suspension is garbage. Turns I take without a second thought leave the TL going sideways. You cannot forget that its a boat of a car with all the weight on the front end, and it is not fun to drive. FWD works well on smaller lighter cars but once the car gets to a certain weight its a major liability.
2- Why is it needed to bash Japanese cars in particular HONDA's?
3- You talk about replacing the cabin air filter in the Acura, have you tried replacing the air filters in your C280? It's not exactly a walk in the park.
4- The Acura TL is a car oriented to sports driving and the suspension in the car is not garbage because the TL base model is capable of pulling .90G on the skidpad.
5- Weight distribution of the TL is 61.5/38.5.
6- How is the TL an econobox?
Sure this is a MB forum but theres not need to bash a Acura.
12-15-2010, 08:01 PM
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
....I wasnt insisting on the diff in peak hp or torque... i meant how the delivery of the power felt overall aka the power across the rev range... jeesh ill apparently try and be super specific in the future
12-15-2010, 08:11 PM
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
When I entered the driver's seat, I expected more from it... so in the end I suppose my feeling of gutlessness from the TL was compared to my expectation... the powerband was peaky, leaving a bit of the rev range feeling unehtusiastic, relying on the next shift to feel what comes on more linear-ly in the m272I give up though.
I drove a TL one time with ND2020 at a carmax, so again I fall back on the fact it was a first-impression opinion, which perhaps I realise now were formed more out of expectation than objective result
and if it means anything, I thing the S type's look super sweet... the wheels, exhaust, blah blah
im sorry to any of those I offended with my ill conceived opinion of a TL! bah!
12-15-2010, 08:14 PM
#84
MBWorld Fanatic!
I wasn't comparing the TL to my 230 Matty When I entered the driver's seat, I expected more from it... so in the end I suppose my feeling of gutlessness from the TL was compared to my expectation... the powerband was peaky, leaving a bit of the rev range feeling unehtusiastic, relying on the next shift to feel what comes on more linear-ly in the m272
I give up though.
I drove a TL one time with ND2020 at a carmax, so again I fall back on the fact it was a first-impression opinion, which perhaps I realise now were formed more out of expectation than objective result
and if it means anything, I thing the S type's look super sweet... the wheels, exhaust, blah blah
im sorry to any of those I offended with my ill conceived opinion of a TL! bah!
When I entered the driver's seat, I expected more from it... so in the end I suppose my feeling of gutlessness from the TL was compared to my expectation... the powerband was peaky, leaving a bit of the rev range feeling unehtusiastic, relying on the next shift to feel what comes on more linear-ly in the m272I give up though.
I drove a TL one time with ND2020 at a carmax, so again I fall back on the fact it was a first-impression opinion, which perhaps I realise now were formed more out of expectation than objective result
and if it means anything, I thing the S type's look super sweet... the wheels, exhaust, blah blah
im sorry to any of those I offended with my ill conceived opinion of a TL! bah!
I'll say this though
German Cars > Japanese Cars
12-15-2010, 08:17 PM
#86
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Although I would prefer an LS7 (maybe even supercharged 
)
12-15-2010, 08:34 PM
#89
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12-15-2010, 08:40 PM
#90
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They probably did not want to brake anyones back because the suspension in the IS-F is incredibly stiff.. Qouted from C&D or Motortrend.. a "Viagra the size of a hockey puck could not make this car any stiffer".
12-15-2010, 09:02 PM
#91
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'02 C230 Coupe (Me) '03 SLK320 6MT (Wife)
A friend of mine at work has a TL (SH-AWD) and it is an incredible vehicle, fun to drive, fast and handles well. It is packed with technology features. It has some little things that I love like being able to overlay weather radar on the map. The navigation and voice recognition are superb.
However, I do not think it will age as well as my '02 Coupe, or the W203s in general have. As Matt has pointed out before, the MB's age very gracefully. I suspect that even well cared for, in 8 years, it will look much more like an 8 year old car than the W203s.
However, I do not think it will age as well as my '02 Coupe, or the W203s in general have. As Matt has pointed out before, the MB's age very gracefully. I suspect that even well cared for, in 8 years, it will look much more like an 8 year old car than the W203s.
12-15-2010, 09:22 PM
#93
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12-15-2010, 09:33 PM
#94
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1- The TL is lighter than yours and my C280 by roughly 100lbs.
2- Why is it needed to bash Japanese cars in particular HONDA's?
3- You talk about replacing the cabin air filter in the Acura, have you tried replacing the air filters in your C280? It's not exactly a walk in the park.
4- The Acura TL is a car oriented to sports driving and the suspension in the car is not garbage because the TL base model is capable of pulling .90G on the skidpad.
5- Weight distribution of the TL is 61.5/38.5.
6- How is the TL an econobox?
Sure this is a MB forum but theres not need to bash a Acura.
2- Why is it needed to bash Japanese cars in particular HONDA's?
3- You talk about replacing the cabin air filter in the Acura, have you tried replacing the air filters in your C280? It's not exactly a walk in the park.
4- The Acura TL is a car oriented to sports driving and the suspension in the car is not garbage because the TL base model is capable of pulling .90G on the skidpad.
5- Weight distribution of the TL is 61.5/38.5.
6- How is the TL an econobox?
Sure this is a MB forum but theres not need to bash a Acura.
The TL has nice specs and looks good on a spreadsheet but that's not enough. The TL does not inspire the kind of confidence the MB does. The TL-S is clearly a high performance machine but its twitchy at all speeds and it has zero road feel. Its not something I would ever want to drive over a few miles. If you drive it like a race driver I'm sure its more capable then most, but it has lots of quirks.
The best part about the TL is the J35A8, it does a nice job of pushing me into the seat over 6k rpm, below that its a bit slower then the M272. But its power is useless because it can't get it to the ground even on summer only aftermarket tires. If the car isn't constantly flashing the traction control light at me its torque steering hard enough to pull the steering wheel out of my hand. Be aware the the braking might seem good but we've had to change the brakes yearly due to excessive warping. Its a very common problem you can look that up yourself. She's also gone though a transmission already good thing it had a warranty (before anyone says anything stupid about abusing it she drives the car very gently)
Just drive it hard before you fall in love with its spread sheet.
12-15-2010, 09:56 PM
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"annoyance" and "self-righteousness", amoung others...
So, you... me... our c350s w/ LS7s... say this Friday? Pretty sure we could rule the world. Think about it.
McDonalds?? You better take your neighbors Honda, in a Mercedes you only fine dine....leave that McDonalds for the Japanese cars. Plus you don't want to ruin the beautiful interior smell of a MB but with Honda it already smells like cheap plastic so the burger smell will only make it better
There's a new Accord across the parking lot, it'll do. The scattering of salt from the bag should give the interior some much needed character as well.
My row has our 3 benz and the neighbour lady's VW... "German elitist parking only"
12-15-2010, 10:41 PM
#99
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Karo - eat me. 
Cale, you next.
Karo you know me well enough to know that I like a good debate, and I like and respect a very wide variety of cars - including lots of them that I wouldn't personally have. I wasn't trying to insist that everyone like the TL. If you don't like it, that's a much different ball game than making stuff up. Everyone has different interpretations, etc. But painting it to be a big, heavy, POS with a crappy suspension is trash talk with no basis in reality. I'm going to call that out. Also, I'm no spreadsheet TL lover. I've liked that car since driving several examples literally thousands of miles. It is not German, it does not feel German.. if you expect it to then that's your own stupidity. I respect it for the wide variety of things it does very well.
Cale - I was just giving you a hard time. You'll see that a lot. I have a unique typing style that people read with attitude I usually don't intend. I've told you before that I think the 6MT W203 C350 is the very best W203 you can get - above even the AMG models. I'd take a C350 6MT over ANY TL, for the record. And the 2009+ TL is the ugliest car ever built.
Cale, you next.Karo you know me well enough to know that I like a good debate, and I like and respect a very wide variety of cars - including lots of them that I wouldn't personally have. I wasn't trying to insist that everyone like the TL. If you don't like it, that's a much different ball game than making stuff up. Everyone has different interpretations, etc. But painting it to be a big, heavy, POS with a crappy suspension is trash talk with no basis in reality. I'm going to call that out. Also, I'm no spreadsheet TL lover. I've liked that car since driving several examples literally thousands of miles. It is not German, it does not feel German.. if you expect it to then that's your own stupidity. I respect it for the wide variety of things it does very well.
Cale - I was just giving you a hard time. You'll see that a lot. I have a unique typing style that people read with attitude I usually don't intend. I've told you before that I think the 6MT W203 C350 is the very best W203 you can get - above even the AMG models. I'd take a C350 6MT over ANY TL, for the record. And the 2009+ TL is the ugliest car ever built.
12-15-2010, 11:30 PM
#100
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C230 Sport Sedan 7-speed
