pistons
12-31-2010, 10:26 AM
#101
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Back in the dark ages when I was racing, there were some who used AVgas, but I read that since it is formulated for higher elevation - therefore lower atmospheric pressure - and thus was less volatile than fuels formulated for sea level, it wasn't optimal. I don't know if it's still available, but I used to run H&H Racing Gas. It was frightfully expensive compared to pump gas (4x IIRC), but I swear I could tell the difference (between H&H and pump premium) even though I wasn't driving anything very exotic (Austin Healey Sprite and Sports 2000). Of course, the formulation may make less difference or even be better for supercharged engines.
I would certainly trust Glyn's advice, but I might also check into some purpose formulated racing gas.
I would certainly trust Glyn's advice, but I might also check into some purpose formulated racing gas.
12-31-2010, 11:42 AM
#102
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AVGAS is a little heavy ended but as many piston aircraft are supercharged it's OK & formulated for very cold starts & IAT so there is adequate light end. Certainly better than pump gas & high density.
There are some very exotic racing fuel formulations that can be brewed up by the oil industry in lab conditions but most engines would require considerable modification to really make use of them.
There are some very exotic racing fuel formulations that can be brewed up by the oil industry in lab conditions but most engines would require considerable modification to really make use of them.
12-31-2010, 06:01 PM
#104
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Lead will shorten the life of O2 sensors to about 20,000 miles. This is not an issue for racing - You can toss out the odd O2 sensor if you start running slightly rich.
Lead will kill a cat almost immediately but one is unlikely to be racing with cats on the vehicle.
The big killer of O2 sensors are silicones & silicates. Keep them well away from the inlet system. Do not allow the vehicle to ingest silicone sprays etc.
Lead will kill a cat almost immediately but one is unlikely to be racing with cats on the vehicle.
The big killer of O2 sensors are silicones & silicates. Keep them well away from the inlet system. Do not allow the vehicle to ingest silicone sprays etc.
01-04-2011, 11:22 AM
#105
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Thank to everyone on the site hoo-ha’s contributed to this trend, this is really great info, I have learn so much in the past 3 weeks, now I have to analyse all this info and make the best of it. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to work on mi MB for the next 3 months, has I have accepted an assignment in Texas, I will however check in every now and then, when I start working on it again I will probably have more question.
This is a great site,
Thanks again.
This is a great site,
Thanks again.
01-04-2011, 03:50 PM
#106
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05 c230k 6spd
Thank to everyone on the site hoo-ha’s contributed to this trend, this is really great info, I have learn so much in the past 3 weeks, now I have to analyse all this info and make the best of it. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to work on mi MB for the next 3 months, has I have accepted an assignment in Texas, I will however check in every now and then, when I start working on it again I will probably have more question.
This is a great site,
Thanks again.
This is a great site,
Thanks again.
01-05-2011, 11:23 AM
#108
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You are not going to get a smooth ride from this clutch it's on or off.
Last edited by 427cobra; 01-05-2011 at 11:46 AM.
01-05-2011, 11:58 AM
#109
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I am certain it would, however before I do something like that I’m going to tray some other stuff like relocate the air intake, cool the plugs, install an oil cooler, get a free flow muffler that will meet the requirement, ect.
01-05-2011, 03:38 PM
#110
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05 c230k 6spd
. How much abuse could your clutch setup take? And would it be possible for you to post videos of your car running once its fixed? I wanna hear it
01-06-2011, 10:15 AM
#111
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01-06-2011, 03:49 PM
#112
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Wait.. doesn't the M271's blower pump out 11-12psi stock? The information is all over the map. I've seen numerous places peg it at that, some say its 5-6..
Can someone clear that up?
Can someone clear that up?
01-07-2011, 09:15 AM
#113
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Ok mi gage is in Kpa, so before I modified the pump it was at 40kpa (5.8psi) after the modification with the adjuster and most of the time, I ran at 80kpa (11.6psi), I do have to admit I have had it to 100kpa,
but not for long really, mi excuse is I had to do it so I could blow bi that Porsche down the back strait at Mosport.Maybe you should install a gage on yours an let us know?
01-10-2011, 10:45 PM
#114
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02' SportCoupe
Very interesting thread. Unfortunately their isnt much information available on this platform.
Commercially available pump fuel. E85! Do some research on E85 ethanol, we have it commercially available from the pump in the states. I run the same boost in my race car, (30psi) as I did with 110oct race fuel. The race fuel was $6 a gallon, E85 $2.50. You will have to increase your injector and pump volume as E85 requires 30% more volume than gas to reach the same air fuel ratio.
I would tune your car for 12.0 afr and take out a bunch of timing. On a forced induction motor with high cylinder pressure you must be conservative with timing. I imagine all your "piston problems" will easily be solved by correcting the tune. No need for fancy coatings and head gaskets.
Now educate us on this modified supercharger. I see an external gate. I assume you use that to vent boost pressure to atmosphere when you want to run less boost than you are pullied to run. If you want to run less than the pulley is designed for then change the pulley, venting to atmosphere is a big waste of energy as the supercharger is still spinning at a higher rate to make the 11+psi and you only want 5psi. You are heating up the air more than necessary and adding heat to a cylinder that is already a time bomb with 13.0afr and 40deg.
Keep the discussion going. I would like to know what can be done with these 1.8 and 2.3 kompressor engines. 280whp is very impressive. I wonder with 10psi and proper tuning if you will be near the same power output, I know the motor will last much longer but you will probably be making less power, unless the 280whp was made while the engine was detonating. I doubt it as the pulley, header, chipped cars make only 200-210whp. So your head work and ability to tune more aggressive than the factory ecu should only allow for 220-230whp. The supercharger is at its limit, I wonder what these motors can do with a turbo.
Commercially available pump fuel. E85! Do some research on E85 ethanol, we have it commercially available from the pump in the states. I run the same boost in my race car, (30psi) as I did with 110oct race fuel. The race fuel was $6 a gallon, E85 $2.50. You will have to increase your injector and pump volume as E85 requires 30% more volume than gas to reach the same air fuel ratio.
I would tune your car for 12.0 afr and take out a bunch of timing. On a forced induction motor with high cylinder pressure you must be conservative with timing. I imagine all your "piston problems" will easily be solved by correcting the tune. No need for fancy coatings and head gaskets.
Now educate us on this modified supercharger. I see an external gate. I assume you use that to vent boost pressure to atmosphere when you want to run less boost than you are pullied to run. If you want to run less than the pulley is designed for then change the pulley, venting to atmosphere is a big waste of energy as the supercharger is still spinning at a higher rate to make the 11+psi and you only want 5psi. You are heating up the air more than necessary and adding heat to a cylinder that is already a time bomb with 13.0afr and 40deg.
Keep the discussion going. I would like to know what can be done with these 1.8 and 2.3 kompressor engines. 280whp is very impressive. I wonder with 10psi and proper tuning if you will be near the same power output, I know the motor will last much longer but you will probably be making less power, unless the 280whp was made while the engine was detonating. I doubt it as the pulley, header, chipped cars make only 200-210whp. So your head work and ability to tune more aggressive than the factory ecu should only allow for 220-230whp. The supercharger is at its limit, I wonder what these motors can do with a turbo.
01-11-2011, 01:36 AM
#115
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Of course verify beforehand with your sanctioning body, but I use 104 octane (RON+MON÷2 AKI) Sunoco 260 GT Plus unleaded/oxygenated gasoline during HPDEs as a safeguard against detonation. A liberal interpretation is that it’s a “commercially available pump fuel.” ;) Your projected 20° BTDC and 12:1 WOT AFR programming are likely to be relatively safe starting points with your new engine, but I’d start at 15° and cautiously work up from there. Although your pistons show no signs of incipient detonation or pre-ignition damage to my eyes, excess fuel typically acts a suitable cooling agent on their crowns.
AMG’s upgraded cast pistons easily withstand 14 psi throughout the warranty period in a stock M112K - consuming 91 octane. Probably no coincidence that their 9:1 compression ratio long-block is tuned for ~17° and 12:1 AFR throughout its sweet spot (4500-6200 rpm) as delivered.
M112K Kompressor efficiency:
Articulate and informed initial post. Welcome.
Not sure where you’re sourcing E85 these days for $2.50 despite billions of taxpayers’ dollars in USDA subsidies, but you’re certainly correct as to its additional volume requirements.
The M271 bypasses boost beyond ~6 psi owing to the poor adiabatic efficiency of its roots-style supercharger. Never fiddled with MB’s 1.8-liter engine. FWIW, some information regarding the M113K’s (which has an integral bypass) IAT-referenced preservation mapping strategies:
AMG’s upgraded cast pistons easily withstand 14 psi throughout the warranty period in a stock M112K - consuming 91 octane. Probably no coincidence that their 9:1 compression ratio long-block is tuned for ~17° and 12:1 AFR throughout its sweet spot (4500-6200 rpm) as delivered.
M112K Kompressor efficiency:
Very interesting thread. Unfortunately their isnt much information available on this platform.
Commercially available pump fuel. E85! Do some research on E85 ethanol, we have it commercially available from the pump in the states. I run the same boost in my race car, (30psi) as I did with 110oct race fuel. The race fuel was $6 a gallon, E85 $2.50. You will have to increase your injector and pump volume as E85 requires 30% more volume than gas to reach the same air fuel ratio.
I would tune your car for 12.0 afr and take out a bunch of timing. On a forced induction motor with high cylinder pressure you must be conservative with timing. I imagine all your "piston problems" will easily be solved by correcting the tune. No need for fancy coatings and head gaskets.
Now educate us on this modified supercharger. I see an external gate. I assume you use that to vent boost pressure to atmosphere when you want to run less boost than you are pullied to run. If you want to run less than the pulley is designed for then change the pulley, venting to atmosphere is a big waste of energy as the supercharger is still spinning at a higher rate to make the 11+psi and you only want 5psi. You are heating up the air more than necessary and adding heat to a cylinder that is already a time bomb with 13.0afr and 40deg.
Keep the discussion going. I would like to know what can be done with these 1.8 and 2.3 kompressor engines. 280whp is very impressive. I wonder with 10psi and proper tuning if you will be near the same power output, I know the motor will last much longer but you will probably be making less power, unless the 280whp was made while the engine was detonating. I doubt it as the pulley, header, chipped cars make only 200-210whp. So your head work and ability to tune more aggressive than the factory ecu should only allow for 220-230whp. The supercharger is at its limit, I wonder what these motors can do with a turbo.
Commercially available pump fuel. E85! Do some research on E85 ethanol, we have it commercially available from the pump in the states. I run the same boost in my race car, (30psi) as I did with 110oct race fuel. The race fuel was $6 a gallon, E85 $2.50. You will have to increase your injector and pump volume as E85 requires 30% more volume than gas to reach the same air fuel ratio.
I would tune your car for 12.0 afr and take out a bunch of timing. On a forced induction motor with high cylinder pressure you must be conservative with timing. I imagine all your "piston problems" will easily be solved by correcting the tune. No need for fancy coatings and head gaskets.
Now educate us on this modified supercharger. I see an external gate. I assume you use that to vent boost pressure to atmosphere when you want to run less boost than you are pullied to run. If you want to run less than the pulley is designed for then change the pulley, venting to atmosphere is a big waste of energy as the supercharger is still spinning at a higher rate to make the 11+psi and you only want 5psi. You are heating up the air more than necessary and adding heat to a cylinder that is already a time bomb with 13.0afr and 40deg.
Keep the discussion going. I would like to know what can be done with these 1.8 and 2.3 kompressor engines. 280whp is very impressive. I wonder with 10psi and proper tuning if you will be near the same power output, I know the motor will last much longer but you will probably be making less power, unless the 280whp was made while the engine was detonating. I doubt it as the pulley, header, chipped cars make only 200-210whp. So your head work and ability to tune more aggressive than the factory ecu should only allow for 220-230whp. The supercharger is at its limit, I wonder what these motors can do with a turbo.
Not sure where you’re sourcing E85 these days for $2.50 despite billions of taxpayers’ dollars in USDA subsidies, but you’re certainly correct as to its additional volume requirements.
The M271 bypasses boost beyond ~6 psi owing to the poor adiabatic efficiency of its roots-style supercharger. Never fiddled with MB’s 1.8-liter engine. FWIW, some information regarding the M113K’s (which has an integral bypass) IAT-referenced preservation mapping strategies:
01-17-2011, 11:04 AM
#116
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Very interesting thread. Unfortunately their isnt much information available on this platform.
Commercially available pump fuel. E85! Do some research on E85 ethanol, we have it commercially available from the pump in the states. I run the same boost in my race car, (30psi) as I did with 110oct race fuel. The race fuel was $6 a gallon, E85 $2.50. You will have to increase your injector and pump volume as E85 requires 30% more volume than gas to reach the same air fuel ratio.
I would tune your car for 12.0 afr and take out a bunch of timing. On a forced induction motor with high cylinder pressure you must be conservative with timing. I imagine all your "piston problems" will easily be solved by correcting the tune. No need for fancy coatings and head gaskets.
Now educate us on this modified supercharger. I see an external gate. I assume you use that to vent boost pressure to atmosphere when you want to run less boost than you are pullied to run. If you want to run less than the pulley is designed for then change the pulley, venting to atmosphere is a big waste of energy as the supercharger is still spinning at a higher rate to make the 11+psi and you only want 5psi. You are heating up the air more than necessary and adding heat to a cylinder that is already a time bomb with 13.0afr and 40deg.
Keep the discussion going. I would like to know what can be done with these 1.8 and 2.3 kompressor engines. 280whp is very impressive. I wonder with 10psi and proper tuning if you will be near the same power output, I know the motor will last much longer but you will probably be making less power, unless the 280whp was made while the engine was detonating. I doubt it as the pulley, header, chipped cars make only 200-210whp. So your head work and ability to tune more aggressive than the factory ecu should only allow for 220-230whp. The supercharger is at its limit, I wonder what these motors can do with a turbo.
Commercially available pump fuel. E85! Do some research on E85 ethanol, we have it commercially available from the pump in the states. I run the same boost in my race car, (30psi) as I did with 110oct race fuel. The race fuel was $6 a gallon, E85 $2.50. You will have to increase your injector and pump volume as E85 requires 30% more volume than gas to reach the same air fuel ratio.
I would tune your car for 12.0 afr and take out a bunch of timing. On a forced induction motor with high cylinder pressure you must be conservative with timing. I imagine all your "piston problems" will easily be solved by correcting the tune. No need for fancy coatings and head gaskets.
Now educate us on this modified supercharger. I see an external gate. I assume you use that to vent boost pressure to atmosphere when you want to run less boost than you are pullied to run. If you want to run less than the pulley is designed for then change the pulley, venting to atmosphere is a big waste of energy as the supercharger is still spinning at a higher rate to make the 11+psi and you only want 5psi. You are heating up the air more than necessary and adding heat to a cylinder that is already a time bomb with 13.0afr and 40deg.
Keep the discussion going. I would like to know what can be done with these 1.8 and 2.3 kompressor engines. 280whp is very impressive. I wonder with 10psi and proper tuning if you will be near the same power output, I know the motor will last much longer but you will probably be making less power, unless the 280whp was made while the engine was detonating. I doubt it as the pulley, header, chipped cars make only 200-210whp. So your head work and ability to tune more aggressive than the factory ecu should only allow for 220-230whp. The supercharger is at its limit, I wonder what these motors can do with a turbo.
Sorry I cant answer your questions at this time, has I mentions I am getting ready to leave, I will be back at the end of April, however upon mi return I will reactivate this trend and have one more round of question & answers, at that point in time I will tell you everything about the compressor.
02-12-2011, 10:46 AM
#117
MBWorld Fanatic!
I know this is a pretty stale thread and Cobra won't be back till April to worry about this, but I thought he (or others) might be interested in this site for racing gasoline:
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/
They make specialized fuels for lots of different applications.
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/
They make specialized fuels for lots of different applications.
05-08-2011, 07:26 AM
#118
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CLK200 W209
Kinda off topic, But ive got a clk200 using the same M271 engine.
Ive upped the engine pulley(fabricated shud b abt same as the c230) and supercharger pulley (kleeman) and have gotten 1 bar of boost, however my ecu has been giving me boost cuts and when i restart the car, im getting an engine check light.
Would anyone know a solution to this problem?
My car has been custom tunned via obd2 port. I doubt its the tunning part. Its AF ratios are quite on the safe side and not much advance of the ignition.
Im also using a 1 step colder iridium plug. Heat range 7. Ive got the kleeman extractor and HKS drop in filter.
It gives pretty darn good power but the torque drops off after 4.7k rpm.
ZY
Ive upped the engine pulley(fabricated shud b abt same as the c230) and supercharger pulley (kleeman) and have gotten 1 bar of boost, however my ecu has been giving me boost cuts and when i restart the car, im getting an engine check light.
Would anyone know a solution to this problem?
My car has been custom tunned via obd2 port. I doubt its the tunning part. Its AF ratios are quite on the safe side and not much advance of the ignition.
Im also using a 1 step colder iridium plug. Heat range 7. Ive got the kleeman extractor and HKS drop in filter.
It gives pretty darn good power but the torque drops off after 4.7k rpm.
ZY
