I am a little disappointed since my encounter with a totally stock 1999 Audi A4 1.8 Turbo Quattro owned by a co-worker. We ended up racing (on a dry deserted roadway) the other day, and to my dismay I was taken by at least 3 to 4 car lengths (3 car lengths were taken at the start due to his AWD traction) from a stop light 0-160kmh (0-100mph). After discussions with my co-worker, I discovered he launched his car at 4000rpm and was power shifting (not lifting off the accelerator) at 6300rpm. I being more conservative and ****y, feeling my 192hp and 200 lb ft of tq versus his 150 hp and 155 lb ft of tq, was enough reason for me to leave the car with the traction control on, and only launching the car at 2500rpm, and lifting off the throttle at red line (6200rpm) between gears. I thought I would be able to catch up to him in the high end but I was unable to make much ground even at 140 - 160 Km/hr. After an second attempt to redeem myself, I sadly have to confirm the facts.
Has anyone else had any encounters with 1997-2001 Audi A4s?
What do you all think of the results? I know I am sad...
Do you have any suggestions on how to better race my vehicle? I need to pull my head out of the sand......

 

I had two; one A4 1.8T 2001 with the upgraded 170 HP 1.8T engine and a 2000 S4 with the twin-turbo V6. I can tell you that the 1.8T that I had was very punchy. It was a manual and non-quattro which gives you a slight acceleration advantage over the quattro system. The quattro however on the S4 will never cause you to spin the tires on take off as much allowing for full power to the wheels and road from the engine, whereas if you nail the throttle hard on the front wheel drive you will spin the tires quite noticeably. Now come on buddy, I know it's a close call but you should been able to if not overtake him, be nose to nose, especially if he had stock. Remember that Audi has EDL Electronic Differential Lock always working which keeps his tires from spinning and the Quattro 1.8T if base is a damn cow. It's too heavy. Something is up there, he either had his car chipped, or has the latest 170Hp 1.8T version or you got very nervous. The Audi is fast but not as much as to overtake the 192 hp Supercharged 4 from Mercedes-no way. And if you throw in the old 150 hp stock with quattro FORGET IT he would never be able to touch you. He's probably lying if he took off that quick he has the car chipped. Also, him so called never lifting the throttle, he doesn't know what he has coming to him, those Haldex clutches on A4's are very very sensitive and also remember that a turbo can spool up real high on launch and provide a great acceleration advantage. But don't embarass Mercedes like that bro.

 

When A4's are chipped with a 1.0bar, the get about 200hp or so, and 0-60mph times are in the low 6's.

 

Hey Spindrome you see I agree, because I chipped mine right before trading it in on the Mercedes and got 210 Hp and about 230 of torque and my 0-60 launches were in the low 6's so that's what I'm saying he had to have had the car chipped.

 

My friend got the 150hp 2000 A4 Quattro all stock and I have driven it. There is no way it can leave the C230K 3-4 car length.

 

Turn off the ESP when you are going for the fastest times as the ESP clamps power if it detects wheel spin. You need to be able to break the tires loose for the fastest acceleration, cause when you shift hard the rear tires will slip due to the increased power delivered by the engine at that rpm. This is a good thing as it shoots you forward faster. The ESP robs you of this! I've toasted A4s w/o a blink IF ESP was turned off, and looked like a fool if it was on and I tried to race. Its not good for the car, but it is fun! Live a little, burn some rubber!

 

are you sure he's not chipped?

A4 with quattro is quite a heavy car

i raced my friend's chipped 1.8T Jetta (lighter) and I hang pretty well with him on high end

 

I raced my friends A4 1.t, stock, I beat him by a little. I think you shifted bad or something, 3 to 4 cars?

 

Well....
I am not 100% sure his A4 is completely stock. He just bought the car used last month so the previous owner might have chipped the car. Everything else on the A4 looks stock such as intake and exhaust.

I expected the A4 to take me off the line since he's got the AWD quattro. It was more of a 2 car lead but it felt like I was 3 cars behind. I thought I might be able to gain on the A4 once I get into 3rd and 4th gear but that wasn't the case. I was still about 2 car lengths behind until I had to hit the brakes at around 150 or 160 Kph (95-100mph).

A couple years ago, I race against my friend's 1990 Celica GT4 (200hp, 200 lb-ft/tq) with my 1988 Acura Legend coupe (165 hp, ? tq). He gain 2 car lengths on me right off the bat... I was burning my front tires. But once I got into 3rd gear, my car was slowly gained on him and eventually past him as I got near the redline... I was about a car length ahead before we hit the brakes. I raced another's friend 2000 Honda Prelude SH with the Legend and was about a 1 or 2 car length ahead. My Legend was bone stock and had over 300,000 Kms on the odometer.

I will practice dragging the C230 with the traction control OFF on an empty road a few times and try racing my friend's A4 again in the Spring. I'll be happy if I can edge him a bit. This guys shifts like a MAD MAN and doesn't care if he blows the clutch or not. He's planning to drop the clutch at 6000 rpm. I will drop it at 3500rpm with the Traction control OFF this time. The race will be to 160kph (100mph) as before. I've only got 4500kms on my Odometer but maybe the engine will loosen up a little when its past 10,000kms

oh, I currently have Snow tires on my car (16'" Dunlop Wintersports)... so I will put the evolution wheels with the Michelins when I race him next. Hopefully I can get a little more traction.

oh.. the A4 Quattro weights about 3241 lbs according to the specs on Audiworld... so its not really that heavy compared to the C230.

 

Unless you just suck driving a stick, that Audi had to be chipped and/or more mods done to it. I have raced a known bone stock 2001 A4 and beat it by about 3 cars. His was a stick with Quattro.
Get a pulley and a chip and then even up the score a little!

 

2001 A4 quattro weighs 3241lb
2002 C230k is at 3305lb...

I believe also A4 1.8t makes more than the claimed
150hp/155tq... those Audi/VW's are dyno'ed at slight
higher numbers... (more like 150hp/170tq crank)

But I think you lost mainly due to bad launch.

 

those celica gt4 and prelude should've kicked ur legend's butt. must be really bad shifters. here's something: saw a porsche carrera, current gen, do a 1/4 mile at only 89 mph....obviously the guy doesn't know how to shift. most likely, the reason u lost are those snow tires, especially since the a4 has quattro. what were u thinking those snow tires squirm and has huge gaps for optimum snow grip, will never properly help u put down power on dry roads. get those summer tires back on and toast that a4

 

A couple comments...

1. There is an ideal RPM for dropping the clutch on every car & tire-combination. Dropping any higher just wastes energy, as the tires will sping excessively and you will loose valuable time. Personally, I think the fastest possible time is achieved around 500 RPM above the point that the tires spin a little before takeoff.

2. I don't know where this crazy idea came that power shifting is good (shifting without raising foot off accellerator). That's another inneficient and dangerous (to car) manouver. A clean/fast coordinated shift is still your fastest option. The engine NEEDS to drop RPM for the next year. The experienced driver lets it drop to JUST the right RPM level for the next gear. Keeping a foot on the accellerator doesn't just destroy your clutch, it guarantees that you are not in the right RPM in the next gear.

Personally, over the years, I've found that it is all about shifting and driver ability. With my former humble 116 HP Miata I've beaten audis, hondas, bmws, and many other manuals. Too many people just don't know how to shift well and totally undershift their cars and don't know how to properly launch from first. They either under RPM their launch or totally over do it.

 

Yeah, Rick's correct about people not knowing how to shift. Some undershift, and on some cars it's even possible to overshift. A proper shift should not be necessarily done at the red-line but at an RPM that drops the car into an RPM that's in the sweet portion of the torque curve for the next gear (generally around the peak - where the car is actually pulling hardest).

Good luck next time, BT

 

Hey yellow fly... Come to Race City Speedway with me this summer and i will show you how to REALLY drive that sucker. Than you will have no problems beating Audi A4's Chipped or not chipped..

 

Hey, Iceman. Let me know when you're going, too...

Thanks!

 

Undershift, overshift...that's what makes races! If we all were perfect drivers then we would look on a chart and say 'nope , that cars does 0 to 60 in x seconds - I can't be him.' That is not the racing spirit There is an art to driving any car fast. Once you master the art you can 'Picasso' all over someones face!

 

yup, but for my i'll just mash it down and let the tranny do the work, at least until i can figure a faster way to do it.

 

I BELIEVE THAT THE AUDI DID SHIFT RIGHT. THATS HOW YOUR SUPPOSE TO SHIFT IN A RACE....KEEP THE GAS FLOORED AND BE QUICK WITH THE CLUTCH....ITS ALL BOUT TIMING.... IT MIGHT RUIN THE PARTS BUT THATS THE WAY TO WIN. MOST PEOPLE DONT DO SHIFT LIKE THAT FOR THAT REASON ALONE (EVEN HARDCORE RACERS)...THERE IS SOMETHING SCARY ABOUT NOT LETTING GO OF THE GAS...THATS WHY I ONLY DO IT IN MY FRIENDS CARS...HAHAHAH

 

I happen to be the owner of the A4 that raced yellow_fly_red and his C230k. I apprieciate the comments from all you Mercedes owners (I feel strange being on this site, because I do not own a Mercedes, but I am waiting for Mercedes to build a 4-Matic CLK, before I will buy one). By the way, I really like the C230k and it looks great in white. Just to set the record straight, I have raced cars since I got my drivers licence at 16, and most of that racing time was spent at the track setting up suspensions, transmissions, engines, tires and differentials for optimum launches and 1/4 mile times/top speed. I have owned and raced a wide variety of vehicles going back many years, from NOS Nitrous, Slick Tire, Monster engine 454ci, motor vehicles to refined German vehicles. I am pretty sure the A4 is not chipped, but I will be putting a H&R coilover suspension(A4/S4 ultra performance) and 18" wheels/tyres on it soon, with the APR stage 3 chip, APR K04 turbo, intake, down pipe, larger intercooler, and Super Sprint 3" cat back exhaust when the warranty expires this summer. "I know how to launch and shift a car to get the most out of it." In my co-worker's defence, he just bought his car and is still in the honeymoon stage with it, thus he is very tender with it, as I would. That is the real reason why he lost the race. I am sure with a launch with his traction control off (3000-3500rpm) and quicker shifting just before red line, he will make up the difference, but I am quite surprised he didn't blow me off the road. I expected more from his car. I have raced a couple of slightly modified 99-01 Honda Preludes (Perf. Cat Backs, maybe intakes) and faired very well, beating one by three and losing to one by a couple of car lengths up to 100 mph. The one I lost to, was because I did not 'launch' the car, as I raced him off idle (He didn't look like he was going to race). He chickened out on the re-match at the next light (road was deserted and dry by the way). Anyhow, I have said my peace....race safe, and have fun.....

 

Iceman and Voyagerdude....
let me know when you are heading down to Race City this summer... I'll be there for sure... one of my friend's is taking his 1997 Supra TT to try it out. My other friend used to take his highly modied 1988 MR2 "turbo" (installed the 1990 turbo-charged MR2 engine into his '88 MR2) but his car caught on fire at the Shell Gas station at Canada Olympic Park.. scary stuff... I will post pics one day if I ever get those pics scanned.

kingyellowsnake: I am still waiting for you to bring your Boxster S out to race against my C230... I want to see the "gap" difference between our cars...

 

yellow_fly_red, you need to beat the A4 first.....before you get to see the large gap between your c230k versus the S. Buy the pulley kit, and let's race, enough with the words.