2nice

MY KEY WONT TURN IMMEDIATELY AFTER GETTING DIAGNOSTIC TESTS.

Ok so I went into the dealer to get some quotes for repairs. I needed quotes for....

1. "top coolant off" in dash
2. "top off windshield washer fluid" in dash
3. driver door ajar symbol in dash at all times and power locks/power key can only unlock this door, but not lock it. can do it by hand though.
4. 3rd brake lamp out


i assumed the sensors for the coolant/windshield fluid were just loose or broken and maybe one is setting off both since we all know they share a common wire to the front Signal Acquisition Module (SAM). my coolant and washer fluid levels are fine. my engine is always at about 85-90 degrees.

the driver door was replaced (my car is a rebuilt/salvage)

the trunk lid was also replaced when my car was rebuilt




The quotes I got were written as follows:

"checked coolant and washer fluid light. briefly checked wiring for both sensors. wiring where it can be seen appears to be ok. front of vehicle will need to be partially disassembled to check all of wiring. there is a possible broken wire between S41 and S42 being they share 1 common wire to the front SAM. --->$360 plus any parts that may be needed"


"checked 3rd brake light assembly. removed upper trunk lid panel to expose brake light. found 3rd brake light electrical connector broken. ----> $257 installed"

"checked driver door lock operation. also noticed when pulling wehicle into shop the door open warning was displayed in cluster...noticed door contact plate is missing. bypassed door switch and door lock works as designed. needs contact plate. $31 installed"


my question is, when they plugged in their little computer thing (forgive me idk the technical term) could they have messed something up?

I got into the car as soon as i got my quotes printed and giving them $220 for my diagnostic :x

I try to turn the key. It refuses. I jiggle the wheel and try a few more times. It turns and starts. I think "huh thats wierd". I turn it off and take the key out. Same thing happens. Took me like 5 tries of turning it for it to turn and start. I take it out a third time and I cannot get it to turn. I go back to the service advisor and he tries. He also locks and unlocks the doors via the key remote a bunch of times and tries more. he gets a mechanic who also tries. Neither of them can get it. He says wait a few minutes and see what happens.


I wait like 10 minutes and with a bunch of jiggling/wrenching, it finally decides to turn and start.

At this point im really suspicious but i dont wanna turn the car off so i let him know and go home aftre he tells me it could be the key/ the EIS blah blah.

I don't have a spare key. I tried cleaning the key and the ignition sensors. I charged my battery overnight last night but same problem. Takes a bunch of tries for it to work. Im talkin like between 5 to 20 minutes of inserting, turning, etc.

The best suggestion I've heard is to bring it to the dealer and get a STAR diagnosis and maybe they can figure out what is causing the problem. BUT that would mean more money.

I just feel like this is too close to be a coincidence. I dont know is the diagnostics they did send any crazy voltages through the car or whatnot but something is fishy.


PLEASE help. I've read like 50 posts about this from every forum and i'm wondering if anyone has any clue if this problem could have been caused by them.

2nice

ps. as i said i charged the battery overnight but i still wanna check the voltage. i found this:


quote from some other MB forum:
"I would check the battery too. You can test it from the AC with auto+rest for five seconds then auto buttons until you get to 23 or 24 (it will be obvious) on the left and voltage read will be on the right (I might have it backwards). The voltage will be .7 V less than the actual at the battery because it passes through a diode. You can also test directly at the battery with a multimeter."

i know what the "auto" button is for the AC but what is the "rest" button he speaks of?

TruTaing

Shot in the dark: Did they actually install a new contact plate or did they perform some work around? Maybe the car wont start because it believes its being broken into/stolen?

2nice

they performed no work other than telling me what i had wrong with my car and the prices to fix it.

i installed the new contact plate myself and the door errors went away and the locks work perfectly now. the key/ignition problem still stands after charging the battery overnight but i dont seem to have to play with it for as long. like a minute of jiggling and it eventually "catches" and allows me to turn it.

i'm not worried about the 3rd brake lamp...easy fix just gotta purchase the new electrical connector.

i'm also not really worried about the coolant/washer warnings. i'm pretty sure it's just a wire somewhere broken.

i just feel like when they plugged in the diagnostic computer system (STAR???), they probably did a series of electrical tests to make sure that everything was in working order and I know sometimes they bypass alot of stuff with higher voltage tests. I'm thinking maybe that could have messed up my EIS...??? FML.

thanks for the reply.

LILBENZ230

To be completely honest and this is not what you want to hear, but the car was salvaged and rebuilt (and from the photos, not to Mercedes standards). It was bound to have issues. It's the risk you take when you buy a car pieced back together.

Russell Ormerod

Sorry but there no chance star diagnose could have caused any damage to your eis, its a known problem with DAS3 they can fail at any point with absolutley no warning, this is why you should always have a spare key for DAS 3 cars. only by connecting star will you be able to determine if its your key or ignition switch. The dealer who quoted you should of been kind enough to reconnect star for you to deterime the fault for at least. seeing it happened right there. One more the thing rebuilds are always problem car, I hate even touching them. Maybe open your key up and resolder the PCB it may help
Good luck

2nice

hey guys. thanks for the replies. are you sure STAR can determine if the problem is caused by the key or ignition? i asked the mechanic and the service advisor and they said it won't show up as an error...

Russell Ormerod

Tell them they need a lesson in star, there will not be errors
but there is a guided test to determine if its the key or eis.
there are actual values to check as well. Star is the genuine MB tool for diagnostics you dont get better than that. So long as the guy using it knows how to test it.

2nice

hi russell. thank you for the info. is there anywhere i can get these values/figure out what to test for? i ask just because i don't wanna walk in and say "you guys are wrong...you can figure out the problem using star". you know?

i know a guy who has a diagnostic tool that works for european cars. maybe his tool could test for these values?

thanks.

Glyn M Ruck

Many dealer staff are not well trained on Star. Hell - we have to tell them how to select "Xenon present" & many of them have no idea how to run transmission adaptions.

Pleased we have Karo & Johnand with their own Star's.

2nice

ok thanks glyn. well i am going to PM them both. i'm even willing to pay for their help if i can avoid dealer bull*****.

Russell Ormerod

there is a big warning message that comes up on star telling you to do a guided fault test before replacing the EIS or KEY. the diagnostic machine guides you through the test and will tell you what is faulty, there is no better tool than star for the job, if you planning to have a spare key just order one anyway from the dealer, when it arrives you just insert it, wait for the red LED to go out on the key(while LED is on do not remove key just wait) once the LED goes out you will hear the ignition lock release, and you will be able to turn and start. If it does in fact need a new EIS your keys will still be able to be used with the new one.

johnand

Where are you located? I have a STAR system and can help you diagnose the key/EIS issue if you are close by.

2nice

if that's the case then i'm gonna give my service advisor an earful. its like they are stringing me on to pay for one lil thing after another.

can anyone confirm this as fact?

no offense Russell, i just want as much backup as possible if i bring this up/show them this forum post. they like to say that "google" has misguided facts everywhere when i told them i did research.

2nice

bump.

i've been looking into buying a used EIS from a junk yard and having it installed by a local shop and then bringing it to MB for coding. any objections???

2nice

i'm in rochester NY. kinda far :[. thank you for the offer. i sent you a PM.

2nice

can anybody confirm?

2nice

?...

:[

Russell Ormerod

you cannot fit a used EIS, forget about it. And a dealer cannot code it
Its either new or nothing.
Well if want to use a used one then you will need to buy the EIS the ESL steering lock and the engine ecu with the keys, also mileage is stored in eis and a used one will cause your cluster to display -------- dashes.

its possible you only will need a new key!

ChrisBrown

Agreed. You really need to test a new key just to rule that out.

Phin

...put a new battery in your key fob too....can't hurt

2nice

tried new key. $220 gone...altho it's good to have.... no result tho :[

tomorrow im goin to my dealer and demanding a free STAR diagnostic test to confirm its the EIS and THEN gonna hand over my soul for the new EIS to be put in.

johnand

I agree with all the excellent information Russell has given you so far. A proper STAR diagnostic system will tell you exactly what the problem is if all steps are followed properly. Since the key was not the issue, it looks highly likely it is the EIS. You are following the right path by going to the dealer and verifying the issue with STAR.

mtnman82

Hope you didn't get charged to 'program' when you got your new key. I can confirm, all you do with the new key is stick it in the ignition and off you go. I just got one, was handed the key over the parts counter, went out to my car and did just that.

2nice

^doesn't every key need to be programmed?

ps. haven't had time to get this resolved. school is killing me. hoping to get this resolved by the end of this coming week.