Is there a way to check timing chain with tearing engine apart?
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
$260?!? If he knows what he's doing, that's a smokin' deal. I suspect for $260 he's never done it before on an M271, but I may be wrong.
I paid that just for my timing chain from the dealer. Ya, I know it has been found cheaper, but it was kind of a knee jerk purchase, and the wife said no non mercedes parts inside the engine. I found the rest of my parts much cheaper, and she backed off a little after we did some research.
You will still need extra parts if your just swapping the chain, aside from a new chain and tensioner. Valve cover gasket set, gasket maker for timing case cover, and as Glyn mentioned, the special tool, or something made up to hold the cams.
Jordan
I paid that just for my timing chain from the dealer. Ya, I know it has been found cheaper, but it was kind of a knee jerk purchase, and the wife said no non mercedes parts inside the engine. I found the rest of my parts much cheaper, and she backed off a little after we did some research.
You will still need extra parts if your just swapping the chain, aside from a new chain and tensioner. Valve cover gasket set, gasket maker for timing case cover, and as Glyn mentioned, the special tool, or something made up to hold the cams.
Jordan
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
Oh he definitely knows what he is doing. Whether or not he's done the job on an M271 or not, I don't know. He looked up the procedure and then quoted me.
I'm just trying to get together a list of everything I need to give him to do the job. I didn't know the valve cover had to come off.
I'm just trying to get together a list of everything I need to give him to do the job. I didn't know the valve cover had to come off.
Thread Starter
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
Gotcha.
He will also have to remove the alternator to get access to the tensioner. That's a major job in itself. Took me a good 45 mins. to get it out. And thats after reading a few DIY's.
He will also have to remove the alternator to get access to the tensioner. That's a major job in itself. Took me a good 45 mins. to get it out. And thats after reading a few DIY's.
Last edited by Hogger; Mar 29, 2012 at 12:04 PM.
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'05 C230 Sedan, '10 C300 Sedan
So is the rumble/diesel sound normal when it lasts for 1-2 seconds on cold start, but not normal if it continues longer than that as in LILBENZ's first video? Or is any rumble sound such as that bad no matter how short a time it lasts for?
Mine typically makes that noise for about 2 seconds on the first start of the day but I don't hear anything that sounds like chain sliding along metal. Mine has 95,000 miles on it so this thread definitely has my attention. I've owned the car a year and it has made the sound the whole time.
Mine typically makes that noise for about 2 seconds on the first start of the day but I don't hear anything that sounds like chain sliding along metal. Mine has 95,000 miles on it so this thread definitely has my attention. I've owned the car a year and it has made the sound the whole time.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Oh he definitely knows what he is doing. Whether or not he's done the job on an M271 or not, I don't know. He looked up the procedure and then quoted me.
I'm just trying to get together a list of everything I need to give him to do the job. I didn't know the valve cover had to come off.
I'm just trying to get together a list of everything I need to give him to do the job. I didn't know the valve cover had to come off.
Thread Starter
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
That video sounds like there may already be some internal damage. The rattling should only last a second, then quit. And it sounds like shaking a spoon in an empty soup can.
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Z71Man, like Glyn said, there should be no rattle. Can you tell where it is coming from?
My 05 rattled on cold start at 31,000 miles. Turned out to be the camshaft adjusters or something like that, but sounded more like it was coming from the back of the engine. Dealer replaced under warranty. It's been more than 100,000 miles since then and the car has never done it again.
My 05 rattled on cold start at 31,000 miles. Turned out to be the camshaft adjusters or something like that, but sounded more like it was coming from the back of the engine. Dealer replaced under warranty. It's been more than 100,000 miles since then and the car has never done it again.
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From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
"
Hello
In my C200 Kompressor camshaft sprockets worn out and timing chain skipped. Thats why in description is timing system failure. Valves weren't bent, but anyway it was costly repair. It needed both cam advancers, timing chain and tensioner replacement. It's rather well known fault in M271 engines... But I wish you good luck and no problems with your car
Greetings from Poland"
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'05 C230 Sedan, '10 C300 Sedan
Well I am interested in replacing the chain in my car, but I'm unsure about the camshaft adjusters. Each adjuster looks to cost ~$650 just for the part alone. I can certainly live with the noise, but if they get worse and fail, will they take the rest of the valvetrain with them as is the case with the chain? Or will they just lose their ability to advance/retard the shafts??
I will try to have someone else start the car in the near future to see if I can hear whether it's coming from the front or back of the engine. I understand that some other cars make a similar noise due to an emissions control related function?
As for the chain replacement, does anyone know about the DIY breaking and reattaching of the chain master link? I saw that the chain break tool runs around $250, which will probably be similar to the labor for having an indy shop do the job. I feel like I can get the engine open easily enough and handle the orientation of the shafts, but I don't know if I'm up to getting the chain linked together reliably.
I will try to have someone else start the car in the near future to see if I can hear whether it's coming from the front or back of the engine. I understand that some other cars make a similar noise due to an emissions control related function?
As for the chain replacement, does anyone know about the DIY breaking and reattaching of the chain master link? I saw that the chain break tool runs around $250, which will probably be similar to the labor for having an indy shop do the job. I feel like I can get the engine open easily enough and handle the orientation of the shafts, but I don't know if I'm up to getting the chain linked together reliably.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
There are multiple issues here.
If the camshaft adjusters rattle there is a deburring proceedure that can help but they don't fail.
If a worn chain wears out the camshaft adjuster sprockets then you need new adjusters.
So the moral of the story is the minute your chain starts making a noise replace it so that it does not wear the sprockets.
If the camshaft adjusters rattle there is a deburring proceedure that can help but they don't fail.
If a worn chain wears out the camshaft adjuster sprockets then you need new adjusters.
So the moral of the story is the minute your chain starts making a noise replace it so that it does not wear the sprockets.
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From: Raleigh, NC
2005 C230K, 2019 Honda CR-V, '74 Lotus Europa
Good luck on your Grand Adventure, Hogger! Although in my mind, you're already started!
I'm sure Glyn has a map for you. Have you thought about getting the DVD workshop/parts manual?
I forgot to ask - Won't you have to have your valves and seats ground? Or do they do that for you with a new head now a days?
I'm sure Glyn has a map for you. Have you thought about getting the DVD workshop/parts manual?
I forgot to ask - Won't you have to have your valves and seats ground? Or do they do that for you with a new head now a days?
Last edited by ncmudbug; Mar 31, 2012 at 03:29 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
Thanks!
I did subscribe to AllDataDIY. It has been really helpful. Well worth the $20 for a year.
Already got the balance chain on, and going for the lower guide and tensioner. The thing that has been the most work is getting all the surfaces clean for re-assembly.
The new head came with new updated valves and springs. Apparently in 2005 there were some changes made to the valves on the M271. It also comes with new guides and seals. Pressure tested, cut valve seats, lapped valves, and new exhaust manifold studs.
Should be just plug and play
Jordan
I did subscribe to AllDataDIY. It has been really helpful. Well worth the $20 for a year.
Already got the balance chain on, and going for the lower guide and tensioner. The thing that has been the most work is getting all the surfaces clean for re-assembly.
The new head came with new updated valves and springs. Apparently in 2005 there were some changes made to the valves on the M271. It also comes with new guides and seals. Pressure tested, cut valve seats, lapped valves, and new exhaust manifold studs.
Should be just plug and play
Jordan
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From: Raleigh, NC
2005 C230K, 2019 Honda CR-V, '74 Lotus Europa
Thanks!
I did subscribe to AllDataDIY. It has been really helpful. Well worth the $20 for a year.
Already got the balance chain on, and going for the lower guide and tensioner. The thing that has been the most work is getting all the surfaces clean for re-assembly.
The new head came with new updated valves and springs. Apparently in 2005 there were some changes made to the valves on the M271. It also comes with new guides and seals. Pressure tested, cut valve seats, lapped valves, and new exhaust manifold studs.
Should be just plug and play
Jordan
I did subscribe to AllDataDIY. It has been really helpful. Well worth the $20 for a year.
Already got the balance chain on, and going for the lower guide and tensioner. The thing that has been the most work is getting all the surfaces clean for re-assembly.
The new head came with new updated valves and springs. Apparently in 2005 there were some changes made to the valves on the M271. It also comes with new guides and seals. Pressure tested, cut valve seats, lapped valves, and new exhaust manifold studs.
Should be just plug and play
Jordan
Thread Starter
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
OK, so the new tensioner(right) has a shorter spring shaft compared to the old one(left). I was reading that on an M111 you are supposed to take it apart, and move a pin and springs. Here is a link Tensioner install. But on my tensioners, there is no way to unscrew it and open it up. The brass part is all one piece.
So, I'm wondering if something happened to the old one, and over time pressed on the guide beyond where it should be, resulting in a stretched chain????
Just an idea, but should I just install my new tensioner as is?
EDIT, just found an M111 tensioner, they are much different than an M271 so you can disregard the link. The old tensioner has a light spring load, and gradually get harder as you press it in. When it gets to the same length as the new one, they both feel like the same tension.
So, I'm wondering if something happened to the old one, and over time pressed on the guide beyond where it should be, resulting in a stretched chain????
Just an idea, but should I just install my new tensioner as is?
EDIT, just found an M111 tensioner, they are much different than an M271 so you can disregard the link. The old tensioner has a light spring load, and gradually get harder as you press it in. When it gets to the same length as the new one, they both feel like the same tension.
Last edited by Hogger; Mar 31, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
My understanding is that the tensioner is use once & only release on fitment. Let me check. It partially depends on oil pressure.
Thread Starter
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
That's what I'm finding. Everything I've found just says pull the old one, and install the new one.
I was thinking oil pressure may play a part too.
Too late anyways, it's in with the front timing cover installed.
I was thinking oil pressure may play a part too.
Too late anyways, it's in with the front timing cover installed.
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'05 C230 Sedan, '10 C300 Sedan
Is it possible to replace the chain tensioner on this engine without removing the timing chain cover? I saw a video on youtube of a guy removing his tensioner from a w202 without having to open up the engine any. From the pictures I've seen, I can't see whether that's possible with this engine.
The WIS method that Glyn posted doesn't say anything about the timing chain cover needing to be removed...
The WIS method that Glyn posted doesn't say anything about the timing chain cover needing to be removed...
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I saw that too, and also some stuff about damage to the chain guide from messing with
the tensioner and not doing it properly, but no idea what properly is vs. not properly.
the tensioner and not doing it properly, but no idea what properly is vs. not properly.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 264
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From: Lumberton, TX
2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
For the M271, if you just want to change the tensioner, you have to remove the alternator to access a red plug in the block. Pull out the plug, and insert a socket to unscrew the tensioner.
A 17mm socket fits perfect. I'm not certain, but a deep socket would probably be best.
The M111 and M271 tensioners are very different.
A 17mm socket fits perfect. I'm not certain, but a deep socket would probably be best.
The M111 and M271 tensioners are very different.
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'05 C230 Sedan, '10 C300 Sedan
Thanks, that's some great information. I'm gathering up the courage to attempt a chain and tensioner replacement myself. I'll probably get an indy estimate then decide what my pain threshold is!
