Is there a way to check timing chain with tearing engine apart?
03-17-2012, 07:10 PM
#76
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2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
Good question, thanks for the info on the 2005 head.
Here is the old chain on the left, and new one on the right. Stretched basically a whole link. And yes, I took into account the master link.
Here is the old chain on the left, and new one on the right. Stretched basically a whole link. And yes, I took into account the master link.
03-18-2012, 10:47 AM
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2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
What has stretch bolts on this? I'm going to order all my parts, and want to be sure I have everything. I already got my valve cover gasket set, and it came with new bolts.
I know the head uses stretch bolts, but how about the front cover, the cam cradle/cage, the cam sprocket cover, intake manifold??? Etc...
I know the head uses stretch bolts, but how about the front cover, the cam cradle/cage, the cam sprocket cover, intake manifold??? Etc...
03-18-2012, 11:51 PM
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2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
How critical is it that I change the balance chain?
From AllDatadiy it shows that I need to remove the oil pan, which entails what looks like even more major work on the under carriage. It looks like I can at least replace the guide and tensioner from the top.
But to change the chain, is going to be a huge pain.
From AllDatadiy it shows that I need to remove the oil pan, which entails what looks like even more major work on the under carriage. It looks like I can at least replace the guide and tensioner from the top.
But to change the chain, is going to be a huge pain.
03-19-2012, 03:31 AM
#82
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At what point did Mercedes decide they just stopped caring about longevity or reliability?
I think Hunter S. Thompson said it best,
"How long can this blizzard of shame go on!"
When will you get back on the path, of building the
"Best engineered cars on earth"?
It seems FIAT builds more reliable cars these days.
m271 head and timing chain issues,
M272 balance shaft gear failures,
6.3L AMG engine with soft cams....
And of course there's the dreaded Valeo radiator, but at least Mercedes
didn't design it.
I pray every day, that nothing goes wrong with my car.
Man, do I have a thick file of parts and repairs!
Lately though, it seems to run great.
Knock on wood!!!!
Tomorrow, who knows.
I wonder if the 2 row M111 chain stretches?
Yours looks fine. Who would know without a new chain to set next to it?
Sadness.....
I think Hunter S. Thompson said it best,
"How long can this blizzard of shame go on!"
When will you get back on the path, of building the
"Best engineered cars on earth"?
It seems FIAT builds more reliable cars these days.
m271 head and timing chain issues,
M272 balance shaft gear failures,
6.3L AMG engine with soft cams....
And of course there's the dreaded Valeo radiator, but at least Mercedes
didn't design it.
I pray every day, that nothing goes wrong with my car.
Man, do I have a thick file of parts and repairs!
Lately though, it seems to run great.
Knock on wood!!!!
Tomorrow, who knows.
I wonder if the 2 row M111 chain stretches?
Yours looks fine. Who would know without a new chain to set next to it?
Sadness.....
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 03-19-2012 at 03:37 AM.
03-19-2012, 09:21 AM
#83
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How critical is it that I change the balance chain?
From AllDatadiy it shows that I need to remove the oil pan, which entails what looks like even more major work on the under carriage. It looks like I can at least replace the guide and tensioner from the top.
But to change the chain, is going to be a huge pain.
From AllDatadiy it shows that I need to remove the oil pan, which entails what looks like even more major work on the under carriage. It looks like I can at least replace the guide and tensioner from the top.
But to change the chain, is going to be a huge pain.
03-19-2012, 03:44 PM
#84
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2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
I can't tell how worn it is. It certainly feels much tighter than the timing chain was.
Access looks really difficult to get the chain off. I'll have to shop around to see if I can find a smaller chain breaker that I can fit in there. I could cut it, but will throw metal shavings all over.
I think once I get the chain cut, I shouldn't have much of an issue feeding it around.
BUT, will rotating those balance sprockets mess up the internals after it's all back together?
It almost needs to be done after the timing chain is on to keep everything in sync. Is this wrong?
Maybe I'll try and use some big snippers on the old timing chain, and see if I can cut it that way. Then I should be able to do the same on the balance chain.
Here is a bit of a close up to get a better idea of what I'm looking at.
Access looks really difficult to get the chain off. I'll have to shop around to see if I can find a smaller chain breaker that I can fit in there. I could cut it, but will throw metal shavings all over.
I think once I get the chain cut, I shouldn't have much of an issue feeding it around.
BUT, will rotating those balance sprockets mess up the internals after it's all back together?
It almost needs to be done after the timing chain is on to keep everything in sync. Is this wrong?
Maybe I'll try and use some big snippers on the old timing chain, and see if I can cut it that way. Then I should be able to do the same on the balance chain.
Here is a bit of a close up to get a better idea of what I'm looking at.
Last edited by Hogger; 03-19-2012 at 04:26 PM.
03-19-2012, 05:47 PM
#85
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I see the problem. A large pair of bolt cutting shears might cut the chain. Yes - you have to keep everything timed & in synch or the balance shafts will create vibration rather than damp it.
03-19-2012, 09:06 PM
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2009 ML350, 2007 GL450, 1963 GMC, BMW 325i
So, as long as I turn the crank with the balance shafts together I'll be fine?
I just don't want to for example, cut the chain, attach the new chain to the old chain, and then feed it around the balance shafts without also rotating the crank?
Pretty sure that's the case. If so, I might have an idea.....
I just don't want to for example, cut the chain, attach the new chain to the old chain, and then feed it around the balance shafts without also rotating the crank?
Pretty sure that's the case. If so, I might have an idea.....
03-20-2012, 03:42 AM
#87
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Mmmm...I'd be careful. Certainly wouldn't cut a timing chain with bolt cutters. Isn't there a special tool?
I know the guy who did the M111, said he didn't replace his since the special tool was $250.
http://www.kokes.net/slk/Engine_head...ead_remove.htm
"
I know the guy who did the M111, said he didn't replace his since the special tool was $250.
http://www.kokes.net/slk/Engine_head...ead_remove.htm
"
Replacement Notes
So, when I began this procedure, I thought it would be a good idea to replace the timing chain since I would already be knee-deep in engine parts. Bad plan. It turns out that the chain doesn't use a clip for its masterlink. Instead, you mushroom the heads on the link with a special tool, that, at the time of this writing, costs $250 from a discount-off-the-back-of-a-truck taiwaneese tool maker. Mercedes wanted more. I couldnt justify the price, and my chain was still in good shape, so I just used the original one." - Ben Kokes
Of course in your case the chain IS the problem.
Oh, nothing like a freshly machined head....mmmmmmm
Glyn, do you actually know someone who's used bolt cutters? Sounds sketchy.
Of course in your case the chain IS the problem.
Oh, nothing like a freshly machined head....mmmmmmm
Glyn, do you actually know someone who's used bolt cutters? Sounds sketchy.
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 03-20-2012 at 03:47 AM.
03-20-2012, 09:24 AM
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03-20-2012, 11:04 PM
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Got the balance chain guide removed, and cut the chain with bolt cutters. Just wrapped the spot to cut with duct tape to hold and loose pieces.
I would have just slid it out in tact, but there is a small groove in the oil pan underneath the guide pulley that the chain runs through. There just isn't enough room to slide it out. So I'll have to attach the new chain to it and pull it through the channel.
Interesting that on alldatadiy under the "pulling in timing chain of lanchester balancer". It shows pulling the new chain around without turning one of the balance sprockets. I'm surprised they aren't keeping them in sync. I've got mine marked at 3 points to be sure they stay in the same position as before I took the chain off.
Just ordered all my parts. And my new head is on its way. Hopefully I can start rebuilding by the weekend.
I would have just slid it out in tact, but there is a small groove in the oil pan underneath the guide pulley that the chain runs through. There just isn't enough room to slide it out. So I'll have to attach the new chain to it and pull it through the channel.
Interesting that on alldatadiy under the "pulling in timing chain of lanchester balancer". It shows pulling the new chain around without turning one of the balance sprockets. I'm surprised they aren't keeping them in sync. I've got mine marked at 3 points to be sure they stay in the same position as before I took the chain off.
Just ordered all my parts. And my new head is on its way. Hopefully I can start rebuilding by the weekend.
03-21-2012, 05:20 PM
#94
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We need to get you involved with a race team. Quick overnight rebuild of an engine between practice & the race! 
LOL - I would not do it these days. Now I like to take my time & get things as close to blueprint as possible. I've become slow but methodical at least.
LOL - I would not do it these days. Now I like to take my time & get things as close to blueprint as possible. I've become slow but methodical at least.
03-21-2012, 10:15 PM
#95
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Now that would be fun I love working on cars but am also scared of killing my car and causing a more expensive repair.
03-21-2012, 11:20 PM
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Thanks for the support guys!
Bring on the race team! That would be a blast.
I know now that I could do this a lot faster, now that I have stumbled through it with a bunch of help from you guys. But I'm not so sure I'd be fast enough for a race team... Maybe I'll just drive
Bring on the race team! That would be a blast.
I know now that I could do this a lot faster, now that I have stumbled through it with a bunch of help from you guys. But I'm not so sure I'd be fast enough for a race team... Maybe I'll just drive
03-21-2012, 11:37 PM
#97
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Wow - I shoulda looked at this thread earlier. Pretty epic stuff going on in here. Kudos for digging in and DIYing! Sounds like you're well on your way to a healthy motor in no time!
03-23-2012, 09:23 AM
#98
MBWorld Fanatic!
RMEuropean has the M271 timing chain for sale for $52 and the timing chain tensioner for $77. I am going to get a labor quote TODAY and possibly go forward with replacing the timing chain and tensioner on my 2005 even though it shows no symptoms.
Last edited by LILBENZ230; 03-23-2012 at 09:25 AM.
03-23-2012, 07:26 PM
#99
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Matt - If I owned a M271 with your mileage that is exactly what I would do for peace of mind for the next 150K miles.
Sensible preventive maintenance.
Sensible preventive maintenance.
03-24-2012, 01:02 AM
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2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
at how many miles or Km should I be looking at replacing as a preventative. Currently I have 111,000km and it does not exhibit any of the rattle noise posted.
Here I thought that finally I have a car with a timing chain and no longer have to worry about doing the timing belt thing...guess I am wrong. Another under-engineered component.
Here I thought that finally I have a car with a timing chain and no longer have to worry about doing the timing belt thing...guess I am wrong. Another under-engineered component.
