bobinyelm

Last night when I opened my windows, the rear sections of the foam-backed cloth headliner in my otherwise mint '02 C320 wagon detached from their backing board and are now hanging low.

I've searched posts but non refer to the difficulty of removing the wagon headliner board.

I'd consider doing the job myself, because I was quoted $750 as they said the entire sunroof needs to be removed and it's a bear to adjust perfectly when it goes back in. They also said the back window must be removed, but they backed off and admitted they'd never SEEN or DONE a wagon.

Frankly, I don't SEE why the sun roof must come completely out, and $750 seems awfully expensive, but I do want new material to perfectly match the light beige of the OEM material.

Can shops even obtain the matching material?

Regards,
Bob

Borisrt

Sunroof doesnt need to come down. I redid the sunroof door with no issues. I also need to redo my headliner because my middle is coming down so i cant open my windows. But 750 is extremely expensive. I was quoted 400 to redo mine completely. And i doubt the window has to come out because you just open up the hatch and the window clears.

Borisrt

And pleasee post pictures of this. It'll help me out when i take it out.

bobinyelm

I will.

Monday I will get more quotes, and check w/ some online MB parts discounters and price a new one complete.

I imagine your interior is otherwise like new like mine. I am disappointed they chose to use components (foam) that disintegrates so fast.

Bob

Borisrt

Just go here. with $50 you got your whole head liner.
http://www.hancockfabrics.com/Automo...7VVviewcat.htm

My interior is 8/10 Flawless, just needs to get re tinted and the head liner. After 194,000 miles, not even my leather is ripped. I am completely satisfied just the head liner needs to be fixed, i hate driving with the a/c all day. It'll be nice to drive around with windows open and sunroof open

Glyn M Ruck

The wagon headliner is easier to replace than the sedan due to rear hatch access. Neither require the removal of front or rear windows to replace. The sedan is a fiddle.

bobinyelm

Thanks-I guess these headliner materials are foam backed like the originals?

The Doeskin (Hancock Fabrics) probably comes very close to what I have in my car (hard to tell on a computer screen).

Anyone ever actually REMOVED the headliner on a wagon that is listening on this thread? I'm not sure how to remove the "A" through "D" pillar coverings (no fasteners are visible-do they just pop-off?), and also the overhead panel (to the rear of the mirror that houses courtesy lights).

Before I start prying, I'd like to know I'm not going to break anything that will make a professional installation look cheap in comparison!

Thanks,
Bob

I watched a YouTube on re-covering the headliner board. It looks quite straight forward, actually. Just labor to remove and replace, and time intensive to remove all foam residue on board prior to spraying contact cement on it for new material.

Borisrt

All headliners have foam. Without the foam it wouldnt look smooth i thing there would be alot of creases and all. And i read other threads where you just pull them off. I know the room controls pop down same with the rear dome light. And im know the door pillars come off if you remove the door trim so more visibility. Just remove slowly since its your first time and try not breaking to much. Im sure those clips are replaceable.

bobinyelm

Many headliners are not mounted to hard-boards, but are sewn with panels, and pockets for metal rods that span the top and suspend the cloth or vinyl from the top.

I didn't know what kind Hancock sells. Since the instructions on their site for the material say:
Headliner Doeskin Fabric
Item# 3230844
Content: 100% Nylon
Width: 60"
Care Method: Machine wash warm, tumble dry and remove promptly.
Bolt Size Average: 10 Yards

I didn't think I could assume it had foam backing if you could machine-wash and tumble dry it, if it had delicate foam backing it.

It also says it's "100% Nylon," and foam backing isn't made from nylon.

That's why I asked.

Those old fabric-only suspended headliners used to last for DECADES, though some discolored over time. They lasted a LOT longer than these silly foam backed ones that seem to start disintegrating after only 10 years or so on many vehicles.

Bob

Borisrt

The foam can withstand machine wash warm and dry. This is the type of soft foam that you feel sometimes in a sneaker. And it doesnt have a delicate backing, it has a backing that actually holds. These headliners now last, some longers than others, Some just mess up and others dont. The only reason why mine came down was because one day my mom decided to clean the car and she used a Mr.Clean magic eraser on the head liner to remove a stain from it. Moisture+ oem foam in florida heat= headliner coming down.

Borisrt

This might help you out a bit.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...s-install.html

bobinyelm

That's good to know.

I've had a few headliners fall down like my C320 over the years and it sucks.

Glad to hear the new stuff is more durable.

My car spent its life in FL and TX (though always garaged), so maybe 35k miles outside in the Summer heat (half the 70k miles the car has were in hot weather) destroyed the bond between the material and the foam.

I DID have it cleaned and detailed once (last Summer). Maybe they used a harsh cleaner that weakened it?

I make it a point NEVER to even touch the headliner. When the foam is ready to fail, if you dimple the liner w/ a finger, it will stay dimpled. warning you of the impending disintegration. When new, it will pop right back after being compressed.

I think some adhesives have solvents that weaken the foam as well. I wonder what ones are the safest to use when covering a new headliner?

bobinyelm

Knowing what's in there really helps-Thanks.

Borisrt

Mine has been in fl all its life. Barely ever garage kept. 194 thousand miles, 10 years, 90 degree weather. my headliner durable. I would never get the head liner cleaned because the moisture stays in there and windows closed plus heat will cause it to fall down. I wouldnt say they used a harsh cleaner, i would say it probably got soaked that the liquid went all the way to the board and the board stayed wet and humid. And if you want the best results, get the best brand. Buy the 3M adhesive contact spray

Glyn M Ruck

I know of no one on this forum that has done a wagon. Member laneshift did his sedan without window removal. Search for his thread.

bobinyelm

thanks-

Most of the things that must be removed or disassembled are probably much the same.

It should be easier to remove the headliner tray through the rear hatch than from a sedan, anyway.

glocati

Bob, i came at my wagon's headliner from the rear and did a partial " pull-down" of it to get to the roof to install my sat radio antenna. In short, the plastic panels at the back of the headliner ( d-pillar ) pop-off. I took a bunch of pictures and will try and post some tonight. They should definitely shed some light.

Thx Greg

bobinyelm

That would be REALLY helpful, and MUCH appreciated.

Part of my reluctance about tearing into is damaging components because I don't know where the clips are.

Today I bought a bunch of plastic and composite wedges and tools to take interiors apart. The trick is knowing where to stick them and what to pry on.

BF_JC230

I know it is kind of hard - if you want to do this NOW - but sometimes, if given the luxury of TIME, I will source a part (e.g. top middle dash vent / grille work for PTS) from ebay or a wrecking yard to reverse engineer...that way I don't destroy mine.

Operator's Manual states to use DRY SHAMPOO to clean headliner.

bobinyelm

I found a professional upholstery guy who recently closed his shop, but who says he will do the job complete for $200 if I don't want the sliding inner cover for my moon roof re-covered.

I figure this is a GOOD deal as they guy specialized in HIGH dollar hot rod interiors, but says he's done many dozens of hard-sided headliners.

The ONE caveat is that he will only do it for that price if I will assume any liability for Side Air Bag codes, since he did one where a side air bag in a B Post gave a SRS warning after he did the headliner, and the dealer charged him $400 to reset the light and "re-certify" the air bag as safe for the DOT.

I have not heard anyone mention side air bags (and to be honest I haven't looked to see what air bags the wagon has up/in there).

1) Are the air bags a known problem when doing headliners?

2) Is it ABSOLUTELY necessary to disconnect the battery ground, or if one is careful with the lights and other devices that mount in the headliner, is it safe to do w/o that step. I ask because I don't have the code for the radio, and MB couldn't tell me if there IS one, or if there is if they can get it for me. It didn't come up when they put my VIN # in their computer.

Thanks-
Bob

glocati

Bob, Not as great of photos as I thought i had. I seemed to have lost a batch. All the same, the cloth covered plastic panels that surrounds the back of the headliner merely pop/pry off. They do have a plastic guide tab that somewhat point towards the front of the car. There are two and it's split in the middle. I seem to remember the standard plastic slide in fasteners and one metal tension clip. Once those panels were off, the pot metal surrounds that the pull-up protection screen latches into come off with a torx screw head, the dome light is a pop out iitem as well. From there, there was a velco block about a foot in, right about where the SDARS antenna hole is in my roof pic. That pulls right apart. you can see it and the dome light in the pic that shows the antenna.

That's as far as I went, as I was able to pull the liner down enough to get in there and install the antenna.

Anyhow, hope this is a bit of help. I suspect the C, B and A pillars are similar as far as how the covers are attached.

The plastic intereior tools/pry bars were a big help and minimized any fastener damage when i did my portion, so you are definitely smart in using those.

Good luck on it, Greg

bobinyelm

Thanks-

Basically would you say as you worked yourself deeper that the fasteners and methods made themselves obvious to you so that no pre-knowledge of their type or location was essential to success?

Thanks-
Bob

glocati

Bob, I would say "yes" to that. I did kind of "get" how things may be attached and general location.

I also recently replaced the door latch assembly in the wife's X5 and relay a similar experience in how things are attached. Very similar.

Thanks, Greg

Borisrt

Good luck on the project. That $200 price seems like a steal! and you have a point about the airbags, i never came across that. I was going to pull the headliner down on my wagon this weekend but as usual, i fix one problem and another one occurs, so now its just sitting in the driveway.

bobinyelm

I hope you get your new problem fixed (mechanical?). Mine has only 70k so hope it will be relatively trouble-free for a few years yet-the first think I had to replace was a canister purge valve, but thanks to the MIL code and the group here, it was easy (though pricey for the valve*). I see you're pushing 200k-what kinds of expensive problems have you run into along the way?

I am meeting w/ the guy Sat morning (if he doesn't cancel again) and I'll see if he sticks at that price. I told him I had the MB procedure (thanks to you guys) printed out if he got into trouble.

He's bringing his head-liner sample kit to be sure he can closely match it (so I don't have to recover the sliding sunroof lid, the A,B,C,and D pillar covers as well).

I'll let you know, and if he'll let me, I might try to go photograph the procedure (showing the clips and stuff) for you and the Forum. He has work-space about 35mi from where I live, and he was going to take my car there (to save me 2 round trips to drop and pick it up), so we'll see.

Bob

*The dealer insisted I had to buy a $600 canister w/ the valve attached. I only got the valve alone ($250) when I brought the part in w/ the MB part number on it and they found they COULD get the individual part.