WallaceLau

Hi guys,

Needed help again! Some of you may remember me from a while ago... on this thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...n-problem.html

Summary: Basically Girlfriend's C230k had transmission problem. Dealer said $7000 rebuild. I changed ATF and everything back to 100% normal. Had drove it for about 1,400 miles, everything silky smooth. Plan to replace the radiator at some point just to be safe.

So, yesterday the girlfriend decided to take the car to the dealership and get a quote... (after all my work to fix it, she now wants to sell it...) she got a price, picked the car back up, and less than 30 miles later the engine started having this painful whining sound. She asked me to look into it, and as soon as I pull the the car into the garage a big puddle of ATF fluid formed on the floor. It's not dripping, it's pouring out. Something is definitely wrong. Stopped the vehicle, jacked it up, remove panel, and found this. (see attached images.)

Couple other observations:

1. ATF level suddenly seems ridiculously high... I've checked it a few times since I changed the ATF, it has always been a tag high but within the "80c" block. Tonight, it was WAY over... The level actually got pass the plastic part of the dipstick, into the metal coil portion. And I am pretty sure the fluid isn't anywhere near 80c... All I did was drive to the next block and come back. Like 200 yards if that. The engine might had ran for 3-4 minutes.

2. Coolant level seems normal; can't remember exactly where it was but there was no "drastic" change.

3. Whining noise seems to be synchronous with engine speed, tested with the tranny at neutral.

4. No leak around the Tranny pan gasket. Double checked it.

5. This is the same dealership that told us we need a transmission rebuild. She originally thought the quote would be quick, but was told the service department need to give it a "thorough inspection". They had her vehicle for close to an hour.

So... what's that rubber cap with a small hole that her ATF is gushing out? Any recommendation what to check first? I hate to be wearing tin-foil hats but this just feels too much of a coincident...

Thanks!!



Wallace

hanson7

Could it be the the 2 o-rings on the transmission socket? Mine is an 02 C240 and when the undercarriage got wet, the culprit were those 2 o-rings. Replaced them with new ones, and until now is nice and dry.

I used this as my guide : http://www.installuniversity.com/mb/...ans_oring.html

I believe you did too

Glyn M Ruck

Sounds like you have suffered torque converter failure. High whine that is engine speed related & leak from bell housing plug. If you pull out the plastic plug it should be dripping with fluid. It's the bearings that fail that take out the seal & finally the oil pump.

Hang ten - I will find you a sound clip.

Glyn M Ruck

Does it sound like this.

WallaceLau

Yes... exactly like that...

Glyn M Ruck

Sorry for the bad news. If you caught it early enough you might get away with a complete transmission cleaning. Replacement of TC, bushes, bearings seals & possibly oil pump.
Good luck!

SunnyRayToronto

Wouldn't leaking coolant in the transmission also cause foaming? But then again, it certainly wouldn't have the sound effects.

This transmission seems cursed.

I'll play devil's advocate,... when you did the partial transmission oil change,... and had the transmission pan down,... did you clean the inside of the transmission pan or underside of the conductor plate with a cotton towel or paper towel? Was there anyway any lint or hair or even dust could have gotten in there?

Question: Could torque convertor damage be caused by lint, hair or dust in the transmission oil?

Glyn M Ruck

It's the bearings that fail first. Oil flow through the converter is substantial to keep it cool. It's unlikely that minor lint was the problem. Lack of servicing is more likely. Bearings take a while to wear. There might be some coolant leak. It does not take much coolant to ruin the lubricating qualities of the fluid.

WallaceLau

She said the noise appears about 1 mile from home, and I've had the engine on thereafter for maybe a few minutes. Is it early enough and if not, what else do we need to replace? In fact, what are we looking at (cost wise) for a torque converter replacement? The vehicle is only worth $4k...

Negative, but I did clean the magnet with a shop towel (the red one) but I did spray the hack out of it with brake fluid and let it completely dry before putting it back into the pan.

Well, Mercedes originally said the ATF is fill for life, and the dealership never told us to do a fluid change (we did most of the service there). So when the transmission first starting to act up, it was over 75,000 mile on the original ATF. At that point I did a ATF change and everything went completely back to normal (no more "limp home mode"). Blackstone said iron content is through the roof (8000+ when we should be looking at about 80 - see my other thread) and there are "traces" of coolant. Maybe we should've dump the vehicle at the dealership back then... but I was planning to change the radiator as soon as I get time and keep doing regular maintenance, hoping the vehicle will last at least another 50,000 mile... It's worth maybe $5000 retail (if that), so it may not worth sinking more money into it.

What is you guy's opinion? Fix or scrap?



Wallace

Carsy

Hello Wallace, Here are a few thoughts :-

You could check what else may be needed to be done to prolong the cars economic life before making a decision.

I think your decision could depend on what it is going to cost you in the medium term to keep the MB Vs the cost of another car which you would like to own .

It is also depends on what mileage per year you expect from the car. ie is it the main commuter or second car. I think a car of this age should be driven lightly.

I think also it will depend on whether you have an attachment for the car. If it is a respected member of the family !!

You should find out the value of the car now when unserviceable, & when repaired & the cost of a replacement vehicle . This will help with the decision.

MB are not the cheapest cars to maintain at this age but if you can get another 3 or 4 years out of it for $3000- $4000 & enjoy the experience, it will be worth the repair.

A new car will depreciate a lot more than that but will include better safety features including airbags.

Good luck with it all & let us know of the outcome.

WallaceLau

Hello Carsy,

Lots of good points here, perhaps I can address them so that others can weight in.

I think that has been my biggest problem - budgeting the cost in the next few years. We've never owned another Mercedes before, I really don't know what else we should "expect" to break. This is what I can use the collective wisdom here. The vehicle is close to 80,000 mile, so are we going to expect some major bills shortly? We bought it new and every recommended maintenance has been done per-schedule. We can blame the transmission failure to MB's false advertising of "fill for life", but in the same token I don't knows what else would happen in the same light. Thus I am asking the members here.

If we keep this vehicle it will mainly be used as a back-up or loaner. But one word of caution - my girlfriend doesn't know the meaning of "driven lightly". She think every on-ramp is a race track.

Yes it is a respected member of the family... that I am willing to replace. Does it make sense? lol

As-is, the dealer will buy it for $1000. When running, the dealer will pay $4000. KBB value for private party is in the $5000 range last I looked, and retail ~$7000. But there are a few dents and the sunroof needs work, so take some deduction there.

I am kind'a with you here, although I am not sure how much a T/C replacement would cost. I think this comes up again and again as the "big question". Realistically how much I need to budget. Has anyone done a T/C replacement before, and what was the cost? (Dealer would not give me a straight answer - I have to take the car in and pay them $200 diagnostic fee before they will even give me an estimate.) As you said, having some numbers will truly help us decide.

Most likely not a new car but I kind'a want a older model Lotus Elise... Toyota engine = bullet proof, easy to maintain, and cheap to fix. Plus 30+ MPG... I think I can pick one up in the 20's... lol

Cheers,



Wallace

SunnyRayToronto

> Fix or scrap?

Actually, there's a third option,.... sort of like dumping it at a junkyard,.... but parting it out,... if you have the time,... and ebay-craiglist would be good for that. Why is it that everytime there's a possibility of a part-out,...I always start salivating????

But, first you need to determine how much it'll cost to fix it. DIY or take it to a Mercedes Indy for a quote.

As I recall, the car doesn't have very high mileage,... is regularly serviced except for the transmission. Thus, once the torque converter is fixed, radiator replaced and transmission fluid flushed,.... it should last a while,... question is, will the economics make sense.

Also, since it's your girlfriend's car,.... you should also consider what are your plans with her,.... I mean, are we talking marriage,... baby,... kids,... anytime soon,..... It's a bit of a pain getting a baby seat in and out of the backseat of the coupe since its 2-doors,.... but then again, if you get a Mercedes-Benz baby seat with the BabySmart system it'll deactivates the front passenger airbag when the baby seat is there. Oh wait, that's right, as I recall, you drive a more reliable Honda SUV,... so that would make a decent family car. Hmmmm,.....

Glyn M Ruck

The only way the car has any value is to fix it. I would go to an Indy & get a recon TC fitted with seals & check oil pump.

The 722.6 transmission is tough & will probably still give good service. Pity MBUSA crap advice on filled for life. Properly serviced this is a car capable of 1 million Km. The M111 engine is also tough - will easily = Totota on life.

Fix it at reasonable cost then evaluate replacement.

Lotus Elise is overpriced for what it is. Toyota engines are excellent but no longer cheap to fix like an old 21R was. In SA at least, Toyota spares now exceed Benz in cost for many parts.