Steering rack "clunk" ... and can I use a zip-tie for the rack boot?
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 968
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
Steering rack "clunk" ... and can I use a zip-tie for the rack boot?
I'm in the process of chasing down a "clunk" in my steering rack. I can hear it when wiggling the steering wheel left and right with the car parked and engine turned off (key in, steering wheel lock off). The noise feels loudest right around the gearbox, but with the rack boot on I can't rule out the inner tie rod ball joint. There doesn't appear to be any slack in the steering column, rack housing, bushings or tie rods -- just the "clunk".
So I would like to remove the boot to check the inner tie rod joint. Question is, do I have to use a metal band when I put the boot back on, or will a plastic zip-tie suffice?
And, if there are any other troubleshooting ideas for this problem, I'm all ears. It's hard to tell if the pinion gear has perpendicular or axial play in it -- but I don't know if those can be adjusted anyway. I'll replace the rack as last resort but would like to exhaust all other possibilities first.
Thanks. John
So I would like to remove the boot to check the inner tie rod joint. Question is, do I have to use a metal band when I put the boot back on, or will a plastic zip-tie suffice?
And, if there are any other troubleshooting ideas for this problem, I'm all ears. It's hard to tell if the pinion gear has perpendicular or axial play in it -- but I don't know if those can be adjusted anyway. I'll replace the rack as last resort but would like to exhaust all other possibilities first.
Thanks. John
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Joined: Dec 2010
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From: chicago
2005 c230 kompressor 2003 s500 94 wrangler
werent u goin to replace the bushings before?
i've had the same thing for awhile now...my mechanic has a p71 which does the same thing
the noise is coming right from the drivers inner tie rod
my car has been to 2 different alignment shops, 3 mechanics 1 a mb factory trained technician...i told 1 of them to check the steering rack bushings when turning the wheel and he said they dont "dance"
biggest question now is does it affect your alignment? mine doesnt
i've had the same thing for awhile now...my mechanic has a p71 which does the same thing
the noise is coming right from the drivers inner tie rod
my car has been to 2 different alignment shops, 3 mechanics 1 a mb factory trained technician...i told 1 of them to check the steering rack bushings when turning the wheel and he said they dont "dance"
biggest question now is does it affect your alignment? mine doesnt
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
I was preparing to replace the bushings if they were the problem, but I pulled off the retaining plate yesterday to get a good look at the bushings, and they still look fresh and solid, no movement, and the noise clearly isn't coming from them.
I would be very happy if it's a bad inner tie rod. That is why I asked the question of the boot band. I could pull the boot back today and check it out -- but I can't find a DIY anywhere that says if the inner metal band can be reused or not. I'm assuming not which means I have to replace it. But I only have zip-ties on me. Will plastic zip ties suffice?
Or, should I be able to feel the bad inner tie rod ball joint through the boot without taking it off?
I think it does a bit. It seems like my alignment has two "positions" ... one pulls slightly to the right, and the other does not. Which to me would point to the inner tie rod having a bit of play in it.
Or, should I be able to feel the bad inner tie rod ball joint through the boot without taking it off?
I think it does a bit. It seems like my alignment has two "positions" ... one pulls slightly to the right, and the other does not. Which to me would point to the inner tie rod having a bit of play in it.
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From: Orange County
2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
The metal band is there for a reason. Replace it.
Plastic ties could do in an emergency, but most are made of less than durable materials and few are UV stabilized. They will quickly fail. There is nothing good that can come from exposing the end of the rack to dirt and debris.
Plastic ties could do in an emergency, but most are made of less than durable materials and few are UV stabilized. They will quickly fail. There is nothing good that can come from exposing the end of the rack to dirt and debris.
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From: Columbus, OH
2002 E55 AMG, 06 C55 AMG, 72 350SL
I wouldn't recommend a zip-tie, it's not strong enough. Would be a huge safety issue.
Think about it from this perspective.............If you took your car to a repair shop and paid to have the work done, and found out they used a plastic, store bought zip tie to hold a couple of parts together on your vehicle. Would you be happy?
Think about it from this perspective.............If you took your car to a repair shop and paid to have the work done, and found out they used a plastic, store bought zip tie to hold a couple of parts together on your vehicle. Would you be happy?
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
I wouldn't recommend a zip-tie, it's not strong enough. Would be a huge safety issue.
Think about it from this perspective.............If you took your car to a repair shop and paid to have the work done, and found out they used a plastic, store bought zip tie to hold a couple of parts together on your vehicle. Would you be happy?
Think about it from this perspective.............If you took your car to a repair shop and paid to have the work done, and found out they used a plastic, store bought zip tie to hold a couple of parts together on your vehicle. Would you be happy?
I don't want to be argumentative ... but it is just a steering boot, not a fan belt or flex disk. A stretchy accordian rubber tube that extends the full length of the rack movement and then some, whose primary purpose is to keep out dust and dirt. And it's further protected by the bottom engine cover. The boots on my son's Honda Accord are held on by plastic zip ties. When I changed out one boot it was hard enough to stretch the new one onto the lip of the rack (there is a lip) ... I would be hard pressed to ever see that thing pop off, band or no band.
On the C230 struts, the brake hose holder is "locked" onto the strut with a plastic zip-tie. So evidently no concern about stress or heat in that area. So one would naturally think, would the steering boot also be okay with a zip-tie?
But enough concern voiced -- since the bands are only a couple bucks I'll pick one up on my next parts purchase ... I'll just put off this inspection until then.
Thanks. John
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
Sorry, I still haven't gotten to it ... I intend to this Spring.
I still feel the looseness in the front, when backing out of my driveway at home or going over a speed bump, but otherwise the steering and alignment are good so I haven't been hard pressed to fix it yet.
It's a pretty small amount of play, but enough that you can sense it and it drives you nuts. I want a nice tight suspension, and I'm going to be willing to eventually replace the steering rack to get it.
I also have to pick up the pliers -- Lisle 30600 offset boot clamp pliers -- to crimp on the new band. (love those specialty tools ... $20-30 a pop ...!)
This thread is in my subscribed list so I'll be able to post later on when I finally get around to it.
I still feel the looseness in the front, when backing out of my driveway at home or going over a speed bump, but otherwise the steering and alignment are good so I haven't been hard pressed to fix it yet.
It's a pretty small amount of play, but enough that you can sense it and it drives you nuts. I want a nice tight suspension, and I'm going to be willing to eventually replace the steering rack to get it.
I also have to pick up the pliers -- Lisle 30600 offset boot clamp pliers -- to crimp on the new band. (love those specialty tools ... $20-30 a pop ...!)
This thread is in my subscribed list so I'll be able to post later on when I finally get around to it.
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From: Austin, TX
2005 C230K(sold), Mk7 Jetta
Ah, ok. No worries 
I am waiting for the warmer temps to do my sway bar. Apparently together with end links now, as I start to hear the clunk when turning and going over bumps.
I just found out that my LHS steering rack boot is torn in several places (need to check the right side still). So I guess while there, I might replace the tie rods if they are worn.
How do you check the inner rod for wear? Look for lateral play or what?
I am waiting for the warmer temps to do my sway bar. Apparently together with end links now, as I start to hear the clunk when turning and going over bumps.
I just found out that my LHS steering rack boot is torn in several places (need to check the right side still). So I guess while there, I might replace the tie rods if they are worn.
How do you check the inner rod for wear? Look for lateral play or what?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
I'm assuming axial (lengthwise) play. I drove the front wheel up on ramps, removed the engine cover, then (with ignition key in position #1 to release steering lock) had my son rock the steering wheel left and right enough to move the tires a bit to where I could hear the clunk. Then I just felt around everywhere -- tie rod end ball joints, ends of rack tube, on top worm gear housing, at mount bushings. The clunk felt loudest right somewhere between the worm gear housing and the end of the rack on that side. When he did not move the wheel I could not budge anything. I could only hear the knocking when he rocked the wheel.
I also tried to squeeze in on the boots enough to feel the inner tie rod ball joint, but I couldn't get my fingers right on the ball joint, so that's why I want to pull the boot off the rack end -- so I can see/feel the ball directly.
From what I've felt and heard, it almost sounds like it is the worm gear assembly that has some lateral play in it. I am assuming the rack itself is one long solid piece of metal between the inner tie rod ends, and there does not appear to be any movement in the rack itself, so I am assuming that is not the problem. If I could see a diagram of the interior of the worm gear housing assembly that would be helpful.
I also tried to squeeze in on the boots enough to feel the inner tie rod ball joint, but I couldn't get my fingers right on the ball joint, so that's why I want to pull the boot off the rack end -- so I can see/feel the ball directly.
From what I've felt and heard, it almost sounds like it is the worm gear assembly that has some lateral play in it. I am assuming the rack itself is one long solid piece of metal between the inner tie rod ends, and there does not appear to be any movement in the rack itself, so I am assuming that is not the problem. If I could see a diagram of the interior of the worm gear housing assembly that would be helpful.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
... and of course I'll be bummed if this is just "as designed" ...
https://mbworld.org/wiki/images/a/a2...ing_system.pdf
"When quickly turning the steering wheel left/right, especially with engine off (no power assist), a more or less loud clunking noise can be heard. This is also due to the steering system's construction and is in no way evidence of play in the steering system."
https://mbworld.org/wiki/images/a/a2...ing_system.pdf
"When quickly turning the steering wheel left/right, especially with engine off (no power assist), a more or less loud clunking noise can be heard. This is also due to the steering system's construction and is in no way evidence of play in the steering system."
Last edited by jkowtko; Jan 7, 2014 at 08:03 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: San Francisco, CA
2005 c230SS
Fyi this past week I found a long thread on a BMW forum with what sounded like this same issue:
Here: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=876523 ... it's a good read, and a good laugh as well!
Their solution was a redesigned rack from BMW ... evidently many people had the problem, tried replacing racks and various suspension parts, dealerships thought they had it solved many times with different parts replacements ... but always the clunk came back. Then supposedly BMW released a replacement rack that eliminates the noise.
Unfortunately I don't have any reference cars to compare against. I would think any suspension should have *no* looseness in it at all ... but when you buy a new car you generally are excited about the feel of it and not nitpicking for problems. So I wonder this clunk was always there and I'm just noticing it now because I have done my own DIY suspension work and become overly sensitive?
Here: http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=876523 ... it's a good read, and a good laugh as well!
Their solution was a redesigned rack from BMW ... evidently many people had the problem, tried replacing racks and various suspension parts, dealerships thought they had it solved many times with different parts replacements ... but always the clunk came back. Then supposedly BMW released a replacement rack that eliminates the noise.
Unfortunately I don't have any reference cars to compare against. I would think any suspension should have *no* looseness in it at all ... but when you buy a new car you generally are excited about the feel of it and not nitpicking for problems. So I wonder this clunk was always there and I'm just noticing it now because I have done my own DIY suspension work and become overly sensitive?
Last edited by jkowtko; Jan 25, 2016 at 02:44 PM.
