W203 M271 Ultimate Timing Chain DIY
#126
Super Member
Once you start pulling the new timing chain ends towards each other, that will lock the position of position of all of the sprockets into some alignment.
Therefore, you need to lock/hold the cams when you install the timing chain. You can have 2 people bite down on the cams, holding them, if that's your thing. But, the cams must be aligned when the timing chain is installed. If the cams are rolling around playing footsie when you're installing the master link into the chain, then who knows what the alignment will be.
Good Luck.
#127
Just a tip to anyone who is planning on doing this job and doesn't have access to the chain riveting tool. Febi Bilstein and Swag supply these links to Mercedes m271 timing chains. Part number is; febi 34729
#128
Super Member
WHEN, *not if*, those STUPID clips fall off, the timing chain is broken, and NOTHING OF THAT ENGINE WILL BE SALVAGEABLE - NOTHING! The engine will immediately die. And, for the ~1% of the people that have manual trannys, their rear wheels lock, any vehicle behind them will soon likely be "very intimate" with the car.
I don't know what Bilstein has been doing since the early 2000's. It's hard enough keeping track of the American mergers/etc.
Fwiw, spend the SUPER MASSIVE $100, and DO IT CORRECTLY!! Or, don't waste your time and money. Buy a Honda.
As you know, most companies will gladly sell cr*p to people.
Fwiw, I do not give a flying ****ck if someone used those cr*p product, and their engine "still works". Show me photo proof of when they were installed, the mileage at the time, and the mileage now. Or, take your ricer cr*p and shove it.
Last edited by RedGray; 06-06-2021 at 09:06 PM.
#129
MBWorld Fanatic!
Red, don't motorcycles use master links like that? (the clips are different TBF) - the torque on the mc chain has got to be greater than on a timing chain...
#130
Fwiw, that has to be one of STUPIDEST Moronic Ricer products that I've ever seen.
WHEN, *not if*, those STUPID clips fall off, the timing chain is broken, and NOTHING OF THAT ENGINE WILL BE SALVAGEABLE - NOTHING! The engine will immediately die. And, for the ~1% of the people that have manual trannys, their rear wheels lock, any vehicle behind them will soon likely be "very intimate" with the car.
I don't know what Bilstein has been doing since the early 2000's. It's hard enough keeping track of the American mergers/etc.
Fwiw, spend the SUPER MASSIVE $100, and DO IT CORRECTLY!! Or, don't waste your time and money. Buy a Honda.
As you know, most companies will gladly sell cr*p to people.
Fwiw, I do not give a flying ****ck if someone used those cr*p product, and their engine "still works". Show me photo proof of when they were installed, the mileage at the time, and the mileage now. Or, take your ricer cr*p and shove it.
WHEN, *not if*, those STUPID clips fall off, the timing chain is broken, and NOTHING OF THAT ENGINE WILL BE SALVAGEABLE - NOTHING! The engine will immediately die. And, for the ~1% of the people that have manual trannys, their rear wheels lock, any vehicle behind them will soon likely be "very intimate" with the car.
I don't know what Bilstein has been doing since the early 2000's. It's hard enough keeping track of the American mergers/etc.
Fwiw, spend the SUPER MASSIVE $100, and DO IT CORRECTLY!! Or, don't waste your time and money. Buy a Honda.
As you know, most companies will gladly sell cr*p to people.
Fwiw, I do not give a flying ****ck if someone used those cr*p product, and their engine "still works". Show me photo proof of when they were installed, the mileage at the time, and the mileage now. Or, take your ricer cr*p and shove it.
(Similar chain links have been used for ages in many different applications)
#131
Yeah. Mercedes used them in the past also, on the W116 for one. Alfa Romeo have them in their timing chains, Cadillac have them. It seems pretty common. Just install the closed end in the direction of travel and it should be fine.
#132
Another one bites the dust. 236000 kilometers, I think it's the original chain. Sprockets seem in good condition. Chain tensioner is very tight, almost can't lift it at all.
New chain on it's way.
#133
Just a question before the new chain arrives. Is the chain the length of an even number of turns on the crank? When feeding the new chain through, I guess I have to turn the crank an even number of rotations so I don't end up being 180 degrees out. I other words, I'll end up connecting the new chain together at the same spot where I took the old chain apart, with an even amounts of turns on the crank? Do anyone understand what I'm talking about? 😆
#134
MBWorld Fanatic!
I wonder, though, if it's possible to just drag the chain without turning the crank? Some valves would be open when one piston is at TDC...
You do need to turn an even # rotations, there have been a couple reports where folks ended up 180 degrees out of phase (I think due to their harmonic balancers slipping and them eventually losing count)
Did it blow up or..?
Might just be in a lucky spot where it seems tight, but could start skipping as you rotate the crank.
You do need to turn an even # rotations, there have been a couple reports where folks ended up 180 degrees out of phase (I think due to their harmonic balancers slipping and them eventually losing count)
Might just be in a lucky spot where it seems tight, but could start skipping as you rotate the crank.
Last edited by VVF; 06-17-2021 at 05:27 PM.
#135
I wonder, though, if it's possible to just drag the chain without turning the crank? Some valves would be open when one piston is at TDC...
You do need to turn an even # rotations, there have been a couple reports where folks ended up 180 degrees out of phase (I think due to their harmonic balancers slipping and them eventually losing count)
You do need to turn an even # rotations, there have been a couple reports where folks ended up 180 degrees out of phase (I think due to their harmonic balancers slipping and them eventually losing count)
So I guess the chain is the specific length of an even number of rotations on the crank? So that you're able to connect the ends of the new chain without being 180 degrees out.
Edit; I've now checked how it's possible that no valves hit the piston when you rotate crank without cams turning. The m271 has a special design on the crank. When piston 1 is at tdc, so is piston 4. And #2&3 are at bottom dead center (BDC), then the valves are only open a fraction, so little that the piston doesn't hit. The m271 also uses hyudraulic lifters so the valves does not open as much with no oil pressure turning by hand, as they do when car is running.
Last edited by Pexen; 06-17-2021 at 06:07 PM.
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tkid (05-17-2022)
#136
Super Member
Edit; I've now checked how it's possible that no valves hit the piston when you rotate crank without cams turning. The m271 has a special design on the crank. When piston 1 is at tdc, so is piston 4. And #2&3 are at bottom dead center (BDC), then the valves are only open a fraction, so little that the piston doesn't hit.
Imho, it'd help you a lot if you understood the basics of how a 4-cycle engine works.
There are plenty of books that describe engine theory, operation, and design - both for 2-cycle and 4-cycle engines.
Good luck.
I have neither the time, nor desire, to argue against doing things that go against the factory, and/or the factory service manual.
Last edited by RedGray; 06-18-2021 at 12:45 AM.
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drb930 (06-19-2021)
#137
Super Member
A bowling ball (without the finger holes drilled in it), a pool/billiard ball, and a roller bearing ball are all "*****".
However, they differ greatly in their design and their properties.
There are real life considerations in the design of anything.
To greatly over simplify things, the M271 timing chain was not designed to use that type of "snap together" Master Link.
Imho, for more detailed reasons, it gets easily into graduate-level Mechanical Engineering.
Last edited by RedGray; 06-18-2021 at 12:50 AM.
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BF_JC230 (06-17-2021)
#138
Actually, the first thing I thought was "WTF, this isn't some motorcycle chain"!
A bowling ball (without the finger holes drilled in it), a pool/billiard ball, and a roller bearing ball are all "*****".
However, they differ greatly in their design and their properties.
There are real life considerations in the design of anything.
To greatly over simplify things, the M271 timing chain was not designed to use that type of "snap together" Master Link.
Imho, for more detailed reasons, it gets easily into graduate-level Mechanical Engineering.
A bowling ball (without the finger holes drilled in it), a pool/billiard ball, and a roller bearing ball are all "*****".
However, they differ greatly in their design and their properties.
There are real life considerations in the design of anything.
To greatly over simplify things, the M271 timing chain was not designed to use that type of "snap together" Master Link.
Imho, for more detailed reasons, it gets easily into graduate-level Mechanical Engineering.
Mercedes has used these circlips on other cars timing chains, from factory. So does Cadillac and other brands, still today.
You obviously didn't know about it, and that's fine. But chill.
And it's humorous that you say my explanation of how it's possible to turn the engine without the cams turning is incorrect, when you yourself give the exakt same explanation in this post;
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ml#post7536052
I don't have any interest in beefing with you over this matter. Have a nice life.
Last edited by Pexen; 06-18-2021 at 07:00 PM.
#139
Super Member
Timing Chain Video
This looks like it may be a helpful video series. He is working on the timing chain on an M271, but it is in a W204.
This looks like it may be a helpful video series. He is working on the timing chain on an M271, but it is in a W204.
#140
Timing Chain Video
This looks like it may be a helpful video series. He is working on the timing chain on an M271, but it is in a W204.
This looks like it may be a helpful video series. He is working on the timing chain on an M271, but it is in a W204.
#143
Member
Interesting failure on that pulley!.
It might be worth marking a line on the pulley between the keyway and the O/T mark, so any movement of the elastomer section can be picked up?..
#144
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2003 C230K Coupe Orion Blue
The solution is to either installed updated senrsors (I heard they updated the gaskets in recent years), or simply open up the metal casings and add a circular ring of RTV on both sides of the brown donut. Knowing what I know now, I would've gone the latter route. The latter fix costs 2% as much as the former and does the same job.
Last edited by slammer111; 05-17-2022 at 08:33 PM.
#145
Member
Hi, for anyone that has done the timing chain replacement. How well do the inlet ('B') and exhaust cam adjuster markings line-up with the TDC mark on the harmonic balancer, with the new chain?
I have inspected mine, and the inlet side and TDC mark line-up perfectly, but the exhaust side is very slightly (~1mm) to the left of the marking. Just wondering whether this is anything to worry about?
I noticed the MB picture shown, they only show the inlet side as lining up, curious why they didn't bother to show the exhaust side cam adjuster?.. TIA..