Objection to Group Buy
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Objection to Group Buy
Although i understand that it conflicts with the interest of the paying sponsors, we cant deny that some of the prices the sponsors are offering are just not attractive enough.
I think that a group buy is "ok" if our sponsors does not meet the GB price, or if it is a special item that our sponsors does not offer.
any comments?
I think that a group buy is "ok" if our sponsors does not meet the GB price, or if it is a special item that our sponsors does not offer.
any comments?
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From: New Castle, IN
C230Kompressor
Originally posted by tifosiv122
I agree when it is a product that a sponsor offers, but what if it is a product that no sponser offers, is that ok?
Erik
I agree when it is a product that a sponsor offers, but what if it is a product that no sponser offers, is that ok?
Erik
I also think they they (the sponsors) have learned to be hesitant about trying to put together a group buy-I've only seen a couple of successful ones happen, and it takes a lot of time & energy to even announce one, let alone answer the questions, make it happen, and then follow through with delivery. Unfortunately, I think our community here lacks the size to make very many Group Buys be profitable for the seller and advantageous to the buyer (which is the whole point!)
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From: New Jersey
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Originally posted by KOMPRESSORnSC
Agreed as well. But I don't think there are a lot of products not offered by the current group of sponsors. Maybe some custom pieces such as cf and stuff like that, but with Steve, Harris, Evosport, Eurorev, Kleemann and others, I think the majority of things are covered. I have looked into becoming a sponsor, and I'll tell you-you would have to move a fair amount of product to cover just the advertising costs. Because of this, I think it's important that we support the advertisers.
I also think they they (the sponsors) have learned to be hesitant about trying to put together a group buy-I've only seen a couple of successful ones happen, and it takes a lot of time & energy to even announce one, let alone answer the questions, make it happen, and then follow through with delivery. Unfortunately, I think our community here lacks the size to make very many Group Buys be profitable for the seller and advantageous to the buyer (which is the whole point!)
Agreed as well. But I don't think there are a lot of products not offered by the current group of sponsors. Maybe some custom pieces such as cf and stuff like that, but with Steve, Harris, Evosport, Eurorev, Kleemann and others, I think the majority of things are covered. I have looked into becoming a sponsor, and I'll tell you-you would have to move a fair amount of product to cover just the advertising costs. Because of this, I think it's important that we support the advertisers.
I also think they they (the sponsors) have learned to be hesitant about trying to put together a group buy-I've only seen a couple of successful ones happen, and it takes a lot of time & energy to even announce one, let alone answer the questions, make it happen, and then follow through with delivery. Unfortunately, I think our community here lacks the size to make very many Group Buys be profitable for the seller and advantageous to the buyer (which is the whole point!)
I also think there should be a "Group Buy" forum where people can ask and offer Group Buys in a specific area this way the chance of a group buy actually working might be higher.
Just my opinion...
Erik
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From: SoCal
2002 C230 : 2007 C230
I think they should allow GBs on this forums as long as one of the member is running it, not a non-paying vendor. That way the member is free to find the vendor with the best value, sponsor or not. The current rule really doesn't make sense when the item or brand is something the sponsors don't sell.
As for the difficulty, I have run a few GBs in the past and did not have any problems. Everything went smooth, well most things. It did take a while to get one set of shocks.
To try and keep GBs as fair to the sponsors as possible, I'm willing to be the designated MBworld GB facilitator.
As for the difficulty, I have run a few GBs in the past and did not have any problems. Everything went smooth, well most things. It did take a while to get one set of shocks.
To try and keep GBs as fair to the sponsors as possible, I'm willing to be the designated MBworld GB facilitator.
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From: New Jersey
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Originally posted by KWiK
I think they should allow GBs on this forums as long as one of the member is running it, not a non-paying vendor. That way the member is free to find the vendor with the best value, sponsor or not.
I think they should allow GBs on this forums as long as one of the member is running it, not a non-paying vendor. That way the member is free to find the vendor with the best value, sponsor or not.
I agree that this would be the best way, however, I just don't see how they can do it. If your a company you should pay to sell, if your an individual you should be allowed to set up group deals.
Erik
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From: SF
2007 VW GTI
Re: Objection to Group Buy
Originally posted by Xeon
I think that a group buy is "ok" if our sponsors does not meet the GB price
I think that a group buy is "ok" if our sponsors does not meet the GB price
The reason group buys compete with paying sponsors is precisely because they allow other vendors to advertise via proxy. Even though it may be an MBWorld member organizing the group buy, the vendor they are going through is getting free promotion while our official sponsors are paying for it. I hope everyone understands.
As far as group buys for products our sponsors do not offer, I'll talk with the other moderators about it.
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From: Louisiana
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Re: Re: Objection to Group Buy
Originally posted by session
The reason group buys compete with paying sponsors is precisely because they allow other vendors to advertise via proxy. Even though it may be an MBWorld member organizing the group buy, the vendor they are going through is getting free promotion while our official sponsors are paying for it. I hope everyone understands.
The reason group buys compete with paying sponsors is precisely because they allow other vendors to advertise via proxy. Even though it may be an MBWorld member organizing the group buy, the vendor they are going through is getting free promotion while our official sponsors are paying for it. I hope everyone understands.
Also, it can actually hurt a sponsor's reputation when people see a thread completely shut off and told to buy from sponsor X for a higher price instead.
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From: Chino Hills, CA
2008 C300 Sport
Re: Re: Re: Objection to Group Buy
Originally posted by oggle
Ok I understand this point, but there's just something not right when people are censored from spreading knowledge and trying to save some money. It's like there's a force behind the forum preventing us from buying from anyone but the sponsors here. The net effect is that the knowledge/info gained here will no longer be objective.
Also, it can actually hurt a sponsor's reputation when people see a thread completely shut off and told to buy from sponsor X for a higher price instead.
Ok I understand this point, but there's just something not right when people are censored from spreading knowledge and trying to save some money. It's like there's a force behind the forum preventing us from buying from anyone but the sponsors here. The net effect is that the knowledge/info gained here will no longer be objective.
Also, it can actually hurt a sponsor's reputation when people see a thread completely shut off and told to buy from sponsor X for a higher price instead.
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From: SoCal
2002 C230 : 2007 C230
Re: Re: Objection to Group Buy
Originally posted by session
...I hope everyone understands.
...I hope everyone understands.
If I need new shocks and decide I would like to run a GB to save me some money, I would start searching for a vendor to provide the shocks. The vendor I would choose would be the one offering the best value(sponsor or not). If I can get some very good pricing, but the vendor doesn't happen to be a sponsor, how is it a bad thing that I let everyone know & help save them money also?
This issue is why I offered to run MBworld GBs(but any selected member would do). With a GB facilitator, the sponsors would always have a chance to be the best value vendor and not every member would be trying to post GBs. A well run GB forum will start attracting more members, and that's a good thing for the sponsors.
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Re: Re: Re: Objection to Group Buy
Originally posted by oggle
It's like there's a force behind the forum preventing us from buying from anyone but the sponsors here. The net effect is that the knowledge/info gained here will no longer be objective.
Also, it can actually hurt a sponsor's reputation when people see a thread completely shut off and told to buy from sponsor X for a higher price instead.
It's like there's a force behind the forum preventing us from buying from anyone but the sponsors here. The net effect is that the knowledge/info gained here will no longer be objective.
Also, it can actually hurt a sponsor's reputation when people see a thread completely shut off and told to buy from sponsor X for a higher price instead.
This forum cannot operate in a vacuum, and its members cannot stick their heads up their asses and be naive to the environment here. There is no complete objectivity.
I see no harm in the owners of this forum/sponsors of same setting policies; who else has earned that right?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Objection to Group Buy
Originally posted by tommy
That's what's going on, though. This ain't a free forum, so sponsors have to recoup their fees somehow - they aren't in this solely for the helping out your fellow man part of the equation.
This forum cannot operate in a vacuum, and its members cannot stick their heads up their asses and be naive to the environment here. There is no complete objectivity.
I see no harm in the owners of this forum/sponsors of same setting policies; who else has earned that right?
That's what's going on, though. This ain't a free forum, so sponsors have to recoup their fees somehow - they aren't in this solely for the helping out your fellow man part of the equation.
This forum cannot operate in a vacuum, and its members cannot stick their heads up their asses and be naive to the environment here. There is no complete objectivity.
I see no harm in the owners of this forum/sponsors of same setting policies; who else has earned that right?
I myself have bought from the sponsors (Evosport, Steve, Harris) of this board, so I do believe I have some rights to voice my opinion no? How have others supported the sponsors lately?
Last edited by oggle; Jan 8, 2004 at 02:56 PM.
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From: Los Angeles, CA
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There are a lot of good points being made and I certainly expected my closing the Xenon thread to open a can of worms...you guys are so predictable 
With that in mind, I'm open to coming up with something to address this. This is obviously a sensitive issue, and many forums have experienced this challenge. Perhaps a separate GB forum is the answer, but the bottom line is our paying sponsors help keep this site running, so if GBs hurts their business, they will terminate their support and that's a bad thing. I can't expect everyone to have this holistic viewpoint, but as I said I'm willing to look into other options. I certainly see the benefits of GB. Most of the items being offered, however, including the Xenon lights, are also offered by our sponsors...so why not give them the opportunity? Perhaps they can be just as competitve. Trust me, if you do a group buy for pantyhose, you won't get complaints...unless L'Eggs became a forum sponsor
If we did create a GB forum, we would need to control where it gets posted and set some policies regarding it. I'd like to hear more input...including from our sponsors. Hey, how about a GB on an SL55???
With that in mind, I'm open to coming up with something to address this. This is obviously a sensitive issue, and many forums have experienced this challenge. Perhaps a separate GB forum is the answer, but the bottom line is our paying sponsors help keep this site running, so if GBs hurts their business, they will terminate their support and that's a bad thing. I can't expect everyone to have this holistic viewpoint, but as I said I'm willing to look into other options. I certainly see the benefits of GB. Most of the items being offered, however, including the Xenon lights, are also offered by our sponsors...so why not give them the opportunity? Perhaps they can be just as competitve. Trust me, if you do a group buy for pantyhose, you won't get complaints...unless L'Eggs became a forum sponsor
If we did create a GB forum, we would need to control where it gets posted and set some policies regarding it. I'd like to hear more input...including from our sponsors. Hey, how about a GB on an SL55???
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ok,
i just thought of a solution
In the event of a group buy
1) the organiser should declare the price
2) sponsors decide if they can match or beat the price
3) with everything being equal (price, brand, quality, turnover time), the opportunity should be given to a sponsors. [i personally would buy from a sponser if the price is the same, or a few % more, as i tend to trust them more]
4) if the sponsors cant meet the price, i think they should look at their own business plan...............
is that fair?
in the event of a special product, i guess the sponsors can try to copy it
i just thought of a solution
In the event of a group buy
1) the organiser should declare the price
2) sponsors decide if they can match or beat the price
3) with everything being equal (price, brand, quality, turnover time), the opportunity should be given to a sponsors. [i personally would buy from a sponser if the price is the same, or a few % more, as i tend to trust them more]
4) if the sponsors cant meet the price, i think they should look at their own business plan...............
is that fair?
in the event of a special product, i guess the sponsors can try to copy it
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Let me ask everyone a question. If the vendor supporting the group buy is making a profit through MBWorld, why should they not have to sponsor for that period of time? Otherwise, we are essentially saying that any non-sponsor can sell items as long as they are through group buys.
Thanks,
Ben
Thanks,
Ben
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Originally posted by Mach430
Let me ask everyone a question. If the vendor supporting the group buy is making a profit through MBWorld, why should they not have to sponsor for that period of time?
The vendor may not even know that the GB is posted on MBworld.
If I approach some vendor about a GB, I'm asking him "what price" & "how many", not "where should I post". Also, if I am running a GB, you can bet that I will be telling as many people as I can on this forum & others. When an individual runs a GB, it is up to that individual to find enough buyers to get the GB pricing. If the vendor is involved more than taking payment at GB close, and shipping the items, or they are just offering x% off Brand-X, then it isn't really a GB on something, it's just some vendor having a sale. That is a big difference to me.
Otherwise, we are essentially saying that any non-sponsor can sell items as long as they are through group buys.
Not if you set up a GB facilitator(modorator?) like I suggested. Only the GB facilitator could post them. Members could suggest the items & even a vendor if they have one in mind, but it would be up to the GB facilitator to actually run the GB. The GB facilitator would first offer the sponsors a chance to supply the GB. If they decline, or are not the best value, then a non-sponsor would be the supplier.
If the GB is handled properly, the buyers wouldn't necessarily have to know who the supplier is until payment time. All that really matters is the price and if the minimum qty has been met. They would then make the payment directly to the supplier and not the GB facilitator. I have run GBs like this, & it worked just fine. PM me if you want more details...
Let me ask everyone a question. If the vendor supporting the group buy is making a profit through MBWorld, why should they not have to sponsor for that period of time?
The vendor may not even know that the GB is posted on MBworld.
If I approach some vendor about a GB, I'm asking him "what price" & "how many", not "where should I post". Also, if I am running a GB, you can bet that I will be telling as many people as I can on this forum & others. When an individual runs a GB, it is up to that individual to find enough buyers to get the GB pricing. If the vendor is involved more than taking payment at GB close, and shipping the items, or they are just offering x% off Brand-X, then it isn't really a GB on something, it's just some vendor having a sale. That is a big difference to me.
Otherwise, we are essentially saying that any non-sponsor can sell items as long as they are through group buys.
Not if you set up a GB facilitator(modorator?) like I suggested. Only the GB facilitator could post them. Members could suggest the items & even a vendor if they have one in mind, but it would be up to the GB facilitator to actually run the GB. The GB facilitator would first offer the sponsors a chance to supply the GB. If they decline, or are not the best value, then a non-sponsor would be the supplier.
If the GB is handled properly, the buyers wouldn't necessarily have to know who the supplier is until payment time. All that really matters is the price and if the minimum qty has been met. They would then make the payment directly to the supplier and not the GB facilitator. I have run GBs like this, & it worked just fine. PM me if you want more details...
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Originally posted by Mach430
Let me ask everyone a question. If the vendor supporting the group buy is making a profit through MBWorld, why should they not have to sponsor for that period of time? Otherwise, we are essentially saying that any non-sponsor can sell items as long as they are through group buys.
Thanks,
Ben
Let me ask everyone a question. If the vendor supporting the group buy is making a profit through MBWorld, why should they not have to sponsor for that period of time? Otherwise, we are essentially saying that any non-sponsor can sell items as long as they are through group buys.
Thanks,
Ben
I personally like Xeon's suggestion.
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Originally posted by oggle
I personally like Xeon's suggestion.
I personally like Xeon's suggestion.
mach, as for myself, i rather sponsors earn my my money than outside vendors. After all, they made this forum possible
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Thanks Chee.
As a forum administrator, but also a sponsor and vendor, I do not see why a vendor should not have to sponsor - even for a limited time - in order to host a group buy through our site. You asked, what if they do not know it will be posted on MBWorld, however I would encourage you to explain to them how much greater the group buy's success could be if they sponsored.
I feel that both our members and our sponsors need to be taken care of. However, I must reiterate that I am against an outside vendor profitting off direct sales made on this board whether through their company or someone else hosting the group buy for them.
Thanks,
Ben
As a forum administrator, but also a sponsor and vendor, I do not see why a vendor should not have to sponsor - even for a limited time - in order to host a group buy through our site. You asked, what if they do not know it will be posted on MBWorld, however I would encourage you to explain to them how much greater the group buy's success could be if they sponsored.
I feel that both our members and our sponsors need to be taken care of. However, I must reiterate that I am against an outside vendor profitting off direct sales made on this board whether through their company or someone else hosting the group buy for them.
Thanks,
Ben
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the comment on vendors not knowing the existance of this forum is not posted by me =)
i think that all potential GB should file for application.
1) GB faciliator files for application to the moderators
2) moderators inform sponsors of the potential GB
3) If sponsors can match the price or is close enough ($100 difference is not close enough), sponsors will handle the group buy
4) if not, give us a valid reason as to why the GB application was turned down.
i think that all potential GB should file for application.
1) GB faciliator files for application to the moderators
2) moderators inform sponsors of the potential GB
3) If sponsors can match the price or is close enough ($100 difference is not close enough), sponsors will handle the group buy
4) if not, give us a valid reason as to why the GB application was turned down.
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From: So. Oregon Coast
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IMHO Thumbs down.
Woa!
Wow, I see what you guys are talking about!
Since when are the forums closed to discussing a best price senarios?
I've bought things from various vendor, not all advertisers because of the things I've found here and Mbworld.
I ordered the AMG brakes from Evosport BECAUSE of what I read here, AND they have the best price. Not because of a banner ad.
It's a great deal.
I have to say I disagree with this kind of thing. Then again, if it was me, and my advertisers threatened to pull their advertising, and that meant me having to further support a site that likely doesn't earn any money, well I guess I'd do the same thing.
But not without some serious reservations, and a real threat of losing income. I think the advertisers have to accept that they are advertisting on a open discussion forum, where people are going to discuss their cars, and the toys they buy for them, where they bought them, what they paid, and that people are going to help each other get the best deals.
If you start trying to censor people's discussions, based on whether they are planning to use an approved vendor, well, to me thats a bad thing. I mean they need to compete on the their merits, not rely on being protected by others.
Without competition in the marketplace, we'd all be driving
Trabants! (and speaking Russian perhaps)
I love this site, and I'd be happy to support it in the form of a membership....
Put together a little membership package, license plate frame,
club discount card and some stickers, charge 10-20 bucks a year or so, I'd be in and keep it free.
Wow, I see what you guys are talking about!
Since when are the forums closed to discussing a best price senarios?
I've bought things from various vendor, not all advertisers because of the things I've found here and Mbworld.
I ordered the AMG brakes from Evosport BECAUSE of what I read here, AND they have the best price. Not because of a banner ad.
It's a great deal.
I have to say I disagree with this kind of thing. Then again, if it was me, and my advertisers threatened to pull their advertising, and that meant me having to further support a site that likely doesn't earn any money, well I guess I'd do the same thing.
But not without some serious reservations, and a real threat of losing income. I think the advertisers have to accept that they are advertisting on a open discussion forum, where people are going to discuss their cars, and the toys they buy for them, where they bought them, what they paid, and that people are going to help each other get the best deals.
If you start trying to censor people's discussions, based on whether they are planning to use an approved vendor, well, to me thats a bad thing. I mean they need to compete on the their merits, not rely on being protected by others.
Without competition in the marketplace, we'd all be driving
Trabants! (and speaking Russian perhaps)
I love this site, and I'd be happy to support it in the form of a membership....
Put together a little membership package, license plate frame,
club discount card and some stickers, charge 10-20 bucks a year or so, I'd be in and keep it free.
