edvpt

KLEEMANN, I am planning on ordering one of your pulley kits for my new C230 coupe and having a local German Auto shop install since none of your authorized dealers are local or within a few hours drive.

Would you recommend also changing to a lower restrictive Air Filter like the K&N at the same time?

Previous posts suggest that little is gained on the stock setup but I thought there might be value with the increased airflow created by the pulley change.

Also do you recommend any other changes when adding the pulleys? I know you mentioned that cooler plugs are no longer needed.

Thanks

young

^^

also, can you explain the installation differences between the steel and the alloy kits ($300 difference).

Vince

i don't think adding the K&N would hurt. The car would probably feel alot better too.

Lynn

The cheaper option is a steel ring which attaches to the factory pulley. The more expensive option is an alloy pulley which replaces the factory pulley.

Buellwinkle

Kleemann is one of the few kits without a special air filter. The Renntech, Wetteraur, Väth, and Carlson pullies come with a air filter. I don't know if H&S or Brabus do as there's no info on their website.

Don't know if it that means anything not, just what others provide with their pulley kits. Personally, for $40-60 it can't hurt and at least give you the placebo effect. Just beware that cleaning the K&N filter is a very messy job and requires that the filter not be used for a day while it dries. This is normal for me as I have dirt bikes and the process is similar and you have to do it every few hundred miles, not thousands of miles.

Brandon @ Kleemann

I have dyno tested our pullys with stock, aftermarket and NO air filters- the end result is the same power. While some are insinuating that I may somehow be padding my dyno results all I can sat is I cant see the difference so why include it? Its no problem to use whatever filter you like. BTW if any one doubts my results I will happily make my car available the next time Im in SoCal. We can fit all the pulleys and you can see for your selves.

I do not bull****, pad or otherwise sckew my results- what others get with thier cars I cannot explain as there are a HUGE number of variables I have no control over.

The ring (steel) pulley attaches to the original pulley, the alloy pulley (solid, no damper) is a complete replacement. Removing mass from the crank is like removing mass from the flywheel or crank itself. More power goes to the ground because the rotating components of the engine require less power to turn or bring to speed. This is as old as piston engines themselves- has no one heard of this before?????

A 4cyl engine is small, having lighter mass than say a V8. Removing 8lbs from a V8 pulley would not have the same effect as the total % of reciprocating mass would be much lower.

edvpt

KLEEMANN, Thanks for responding, sounds like I will stick with the stock filter. Does the Steel ring require removing the crank pulley to install or remove? Does the crank pulley just screw off or is some drilling required? (suggested on a earlier post).

sdcaclint

kleeman,
thankyou as always for your input, when do you plan to be in socal? i would really like to take you up on your offer to see your products vs. your competition. that is a great offer i hope many would like to see.

Buellwinkle

Yes Brandon, I would love to see a dyno done at sea level with pump gas, stock air filter, stock exhaust, stock ECU. When? Where? How many cars? Renncpe should come to do a shootout!

Brandon @ Kleemann

CL203 group:

I am trying to organize a trip to SoCal to get by a few magazines with the car. When I have a date Ill let you know.

Bwinkle:

Dynos at sealevel will always be higher. Higher air density at lower altitudes. Dynos at my elevation (5280 ft above) will be approx 14% lower.

Where is Mark Cummings through all this?? He has been running the ring for sometime now.

young

oh, please, let it be june 1!!! or around then...

Buellwinkle

Based on the problems on Mark Cummings car with the rings and information from other tuners I'm guessing that running on SoCal pump gas (91 Octane, down from 92-93 last year) you'll be running lean, under octaned and pinging is possible. Also California fuels have much higher levels of oxygenates than other states and oxygenated fuels put out less energy. Also the higher the altitude, the lower the octane requirements (straight from Chevrons website). Yes, you generate much less HP in the mile high city but the dyno compensates for that. What the dyno can't compensate for is the effects of altitude on engine behaviour and the effects of cooler weather on the intercooler. I'm not saying this any fault of yours (actually I'll blame Gov. Davis) as all pullies pretty much would have the same problem. I'm just not expecting the great numbers you posted in Denver in the winter.

I hope I'm wrong because I would really like to have 200hp at the rear wheel no matter who's pulley ends up on my car.

BTW, I hear that Mark is anxious to try your alloy pulley.

SoCal240/6

Yet another data point showing that K&N will do nothing on a modern, well engineered car, and that MB is smart enough to put on a large enough airbox and filter to not choke the engine in any way. This is shown time and time again on MBs, BMWs, Porsches, etc. that are dyno tested.

Yet, people still buy K&N, and many still actually believe they can "feel" a power increase. LOL! Even if it gave 10 hp, no one could feel that, unless maybe his name is Michael Schumacher.

K&N, its all about marketing.

Brandon @ Kleemann

Mark is running the UpSolute chip- too much timing for the pulley with the "standard" program. UpSolute is making changes for use with the pulley. I am unaware of any other problems with his car, perhaps you are privy to info that I am not.

Octane has nothing to do with running lean or rich. Lean/Rich is quantified as a ratio of air to fuel EX: 12:1. This ratio exists regardless of octane rating. Octane will of course effect knocking, power produced etc.

If you take a look at the dynos I posted they were done at 60F- not exactly arctic conditions. I would agree that it is not a perfect comparison between Denver and LA- however these results have been duplicated in countless other cities in similar geography around the world.

Buellwinkle

On a stock, unmodified vehicle running premium gasoline would you guaranttee those numbers, either as HP/Torque attained or as the improvement over a stock Dyno?

Brandon @ Kleemann

No one can assure you that every single car with the same mods will produce the same power. Brand new engines can vary +/- 5% in power produced, forget all the variables on any given car: miles, comp, ambient T, fuel, etc.

There is always an explination for why a certain car behaves the way it does. Take a car that puts 190hp to the rear wheels with our pulley, if you put another pulley from a different manufacturer on that is the same size and approx mass the result will be the same.

The pulley increases boost levels, power increase as seen is a result of higher pressure in the intake manifold. This increased pressure comes at the expense of power required to drive the SC, higher inlet temps and pumping losses through out the inlet system. Every single pulley out there should provide the same nominal result. SPECIFICALLY what that is on your car can vary substantially.

The increase in boost is approx 27%- forgetting everything I just mentioned- the power increase could be as much as 27%.