05 C230 sedan or Acura TL
#151
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C32
Originally Posted by fasteddie
Soooo....first of all read the header, it's sedan against sedan.
Second - is it the fact that your front and rear bumper skin's paint doesn't match the rest of the car (they are about 2 shades different on most of the Acurii that I have seen) that leads you to believe the paint is better on the Acura?
Third - The platform on the Acura just is not there. There is just too much missing from it to compare. Ex. rear air bags, the junky gas cap release, the lack of an external trunk opener, etc, etc, etc. See my previous posts for more details.
I disagree with this comparison entirely ..... this is like comparing a sophisticated degreed sexy woman against sexy trailer trash. Guess which one can perform better, and which one is going to make more people smile dinner party.
I think a much better comparison is a well equipped Pontiac Grand Am against the Acura. They will end up in the same price range, and both have the same level of deficiencies.
By the way, has the Acura Transmission been recalled yet? You did hear about the recall?
Ed.
Second - is it the fact that your front and rear bumper skin's paint doesn't match the rest of the car (they are about 2 shades different on most of the Acurii that I have seen) that leads you to believe the paint is better on the Acura?
Third - The platform on the Acura just is not there. There is just too much missing from it to compare. Ex. rear air bags, the junky gas cap release, the lack of an external trunk opener, etc, etc, etc. See my previous posts for more details.
I disagree with this comparison entirely ..... this is like comparing a sophisticated degreed sexy woman against sexy trailer trash. Guess which one can perform better, and which one is going to make more people smile dinner party.
I think a much better comparison is a well equipped Pontiac Grand Am against the Acura. They will end up in the same price range, and both have the same level of deficiencies.
By the way, has the Acura Transmission been recalled yet? You did hear about the recall?
Ed.
I seriously don't know if any car manufacturer has perfected the shading between the paint on metal and the paint on the bumpers. At a specific angle and lighting I observed that the shades of my 04 silver MB c32 and 03 e320 to be slightly different from their respective metal portions.
Last that I recall when my old 00 Lude was side by side with the MB, the difference was just as pronounced.
#152
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2001 ML320 E, 2003 C230K Sport Sedan
Originally Posted by ultraseven
I seriously don't know if any car manufacturer has perfected the shading between the paint on metal and the paint on the bumpers. At a specific angle and lighting I observed that the shades of my 04 silver MB c32 and 03 e320 to be slightly different from their respective metal portions.
Last that I recall when my old 00 Lude was side by side with the MB, the difference was just as pronounced.
Last that I recall when my old 00 Lude was side by side with the MB, the difference was just as pronounced.
Seems that in about year 2000, when Mercedes was having problems with the W202 speedometer dials fading, they purchased an ex-Trabant facility near Chernobyl. The plan was to make use of the abundance of long-half-life luminous materials in the area, for their vehicle's speedometers, and produce the full line of S, E, and C for Russia.
Anyway, to make a long story short, they started to notice problems with paint on bumpers last year, and traced the problem back to 2H20 contamination in the water-soluble paint. They were about to bring some old Daimler engineers out of retirement from Norway (who used to bottle spring water for the ***** during WW2) to solve the problem. However, they were able to secure some locals who actually knew how to filter the heavy water from normal water. Problem solved.
However the Trabant facility had an over-production and a few of those cars made it to the ‘States.
You can take the car to the dealer and let him know you have a Chernobyl car. I'm sure he will fix the bumper free of charge.
Or, if you have been in an accident and had the bumper repaired, take it back to the bodyshop.
Yes, I agree, there may be some small differences on the Merc but they are -from what I have seen - small. They are anything but small differences on the Acura – drop by a dealership and take a look for yourself.
At least here, that is the case. I don’t know about your area. Your Acurii may come from a different plant!
Ed.
#153
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C32
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Originally Posted by fasteddie
Generally, I look for crap like this, and have seen very little difference on the Mercs, especially compared to some other vehicles. However you may have a couple of Chernobyl cars.
Seems that in about year 2000, when Mercedes was having problems with the W202 speedometer dials fading, they purchased an ex-Trabant facility near Chernobyl. The plan was to make use of the abundance of long-half-life luminous materials in the area, for their vehicle's speedometers, and produce the full line of S, E, and C for Russia.
Anyway, to make a long story short, they started to notice problems with paint on bumpers last year, and traced the problem back to 2H20 contamination in the water-soluble paint. They were about to bring some old Daimler engineers out of retirement from Norway (who used to bottle spring water for the ***** during WW2) to solve the problem. However, they were able to secure some locals who actually knew how to filter the heavy water from normal water. Problem solved.
However the Trabant facility had an over-production and a few of those cars made it to the ‘States.
You can take the car to the dealer and let him know you have a Chernobyl car. I'm sure he will fix the bumper free of charge.
Or, if you have been in an accident and had the bumper repaired, take it back to the bodyshop.
Yes, I agree, there may be some small differences on the Merc but they are -from what I have seen - small. They are anything but small differences on the Acura – drop by a dealership and take a look for yourself.
At least here, that is the case. I don’t know about your area. Your Acurii may come from a different plant!
Ed.
Seems that in about year 2000, when Mercedes was having problems with the W202 speedometer dials fading, they purchased an ex-Trabant facility near Chernobyl. The plan was to make use of the abundance of long-half-life luminous materials in the area, for their vehicle's speedometers, and produce the full line of S, E, and C for Russia.
Anyway, to make a long story short, they started to notice problems with paint on bumpers last year, and traced the problem back to 2H20 contamination in the water-soluble paint. They were about to bring some old Daimler engineers out of retirement from Norway (who used to bottle spring water for the ***** during WW2) to solve the problem. However, they were able to secure some locals who actually knew how to filter the heavy water from normal water. Problem solved.
However the Trabant facility had an over-production and a few of those cars made it to the ‘States.
You can take the car to the dealer and let him know you have a Chernobyl car. I'm sure he will fix the bumper free of charge.
Or, if you have been in an accident and had the bumper repaired, take it back to the bodyshop.
Yes, I agree, there may be some small differences on the Merc but they are -from what I have seen - small. They are anything but small differences on the Acura – drop by a dealership and take a look for yourself.
At least here, that is the case. I don’t know about your area. Your Acurii may come from a different plant!
Ed.
#154
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its amazing all the idiots who believe the tl is a lesser car that the piece of **** c230. theres no way you fools have driven the tl so stop lying. I bought one which I recently traded for an incredible deal on a lexus ls 430 ultra otherwise I would still have it. the is no category aside from the tls ridiculous turning circle that the c class [ANY C CLASS] can beat the tl in. the tl is a very well built car early build models excepted. I could see if you were talking about an s class vs an rl but a C CLASS? all this proves it that the c class lovers are relatively broke and stupid. c class? hahahaahahaah.
#155
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Originally Posted by 03miamisnake
You had a typo in your post so I fixed it below...
"With my lack of taste, I oogle at a TL while I drive the E..."
"With my lack of taste, I oogle at a TL while I drive the E..."
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2002 996TT,2004 996 C2,2005 C230K
Originally Posted by digital_b
its amazing all the idiots who believe the tl is a lesser car that the piece of **** c230. theres no way you fools have driven the tl so stop lying. I bought one which I recently traded for an incredible deal on a lexus ls 430 ultra otherwise I would still have it. the is no category aside from the tls ridiculous turning circle that the c class [ANY C CLASS] can beat the tl in. the tl is a very well built car early build models excepted. I could see if you were talking about an s class vs an rl but a C CLASS? all this proves it that the c class lovers are relatively broke and stupid. c class? hahahaahahaah.
Regards,
Serg
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Originally Posted by digital_b
its amazing all the idiots who believe the tl is a lesser car that the piece of **** c230. theres no way you fools have driven the tl so stop lying. I bought one which I recently traded for an incredible deal on a lexus ls 430 ultra otherwise I would still have it. the is no category aside from the tls ridiculous turning circle that the c class [ANY C CLASS] can beat the tl in. the tl is a very well built car early build models excepted. I could see if you were talking about an s class vs an rl but a C CLASS? all this proves it that the c class lovers are relatively broke and stupid. c class? hahahaahahaah.
1. I do own an TLS....
2. I do NOT own an C-Class
Sure enough, compare to C230K, TL is a bargain..... And a fully loaded C230K is closing in on an RL in price..... But, if an old C280 can out-do TL in terms of structure rigidity, newer C is just gonna be that much better.....
And TL has its fair bit share of problems, and some of the problems are on EVERY TL.....So what you said makes me pondering if you really did own an TLS......
If you like fancy electronics @ bargain price, there's no better choice than Japanese makes.... But if you value structure rigidity, it's hard to beat a German car....
If I had the choice again, it would have been at least an Audi A4 1.8T.....
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2002 C32, 2011 VW GTI
Originally Posted by Samoan_Ridah
My sister was faced with the same decision (also add to that the G35) and she went with the 05 C240.
She like the handling better and also the look and feel. Oh and that three point star on the hood somehow hypnotized her during the test drive.
She like the handling better and also the look and feel. Oh and that three point star on the hood somehow hypnotized her during the test drive.
In reality, it's more fair to compare the TSX to the C230. The C230 is a superior car, and probably in acceleration too. As time goes on, I actually like the C230 more and more. It's comfortable, economical, quick, well built, good looking and fun to drive. No, it's not the rocket the TL is but who cares? It's quick enough for a family car.
'97 M3/4
'04.5 C230 Sport Sedan (6-speed)
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w203 C320,E46 323i,E36 325ist
It all depends on what type of car YOU want. If you want a Japanese car, with it's brand of styling and all, then get the TL. If you want to get a German car, with all of it's perks, then go with the Mercedes. For me, German cars are the only cars. I have owned Nissan's and Mitsubishi's and Toyota's before, but there is no comparison to a German-made car (MB, BMW, AUDI) IMHO. The styling, comfort, and touring performance of a German engineered car has more appeal to me than the everyday, plain, soccer-mom feel of many Japanese cars. They are in two different classes (and I am not saying one is better than the other, that is up to the individual), you just have to decide which is best for you.
#160
Acura TL: 270hp V6, extremely reliable, very high resale value, and a host of standard options.
MB C230: 189hp V4, average reliability, average-poor resale value, next-to-no standard options.
The MB looks a bit better both inside and out, but the prestige factor is questionable. Yes, it's a Mercedes... but it's also the cheapest Mercedes sold in the United States. I would rather have a mid-level Acura than a bottom-of-the-barrel Mercedes. Take a look at a used CLK for that price... you should be able to get a Starmark Certified 2000-2001.
MB C230: 189hp V4, average reliability, average-poor resale value, next-to-no standard options.
The MB looks a bit better both inside and out, but the prestige factor is questionable. Yes, it's a Mercedes... but it's also the cheapest Mercedes sold in the United States. I would rather have a mid-level Acura than a bottom-of-the-barrel Mercedes. Take a look at a used CLK for that price... you should be able to get a Starmark Certified 2000-2001.
#161
Originally Posted by Tandrek
Yes, it's a Mercedes... but it's also the cheapest Mercedes sold in the United States. I would rather have a mid-level Acura than a bottom-of-the-barrel Mercedes.
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Originally Posted by Tandrek
Acura TL: 270hp V6, extremely reliable, very high resale value, and a host of standard options.
MB C230: 189hp V4, average reliability, average-poor resale value, next-to-no standard options.
The MB looks a bit better both inside and out, but the prestige factor is questionable. Yes, it's a Mercedes... but it's also the cheapest Mercedes sold in the United States. I would rather have a mid-level Acura than a bottom-of-the-barrel Mercedes. Take a look at a used CLK for that price... you should be able to get a Starmark Certified 2000-2001.
MB C230: 189hp V4, average reliability, average-poor resale value, next-to-no standard options.
The MB looks a bit better both inside and out, but the prestige factor is questionable. Yes, it's a Mercedes... but it's also the cheapest Mercedes sold in the United States. I would rather have a mid-level Acura than a bottom-of-the-barrel Mercedes. Take a look at a used CLK for that price... you should be able to get a Starmark Certified 2000-2001.
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Originally Posted by mick1
i disagree with your reasoning. here's why: a porsche boxster is also the cheapest porsche sold in the united states but I would rather have it than a high end lexus coupe like the SC. your argument assumes that the cheapest offering is an inferior product but that can be proven to the contrary in many cases.
For those still looking/choosing, best advice is, go drive each and every one of the car and pick one that suits you the best.....
#164
Originally Posted by mick1
i disagree with your reasoning. here's why: a porsche boxster is also the cheapest porsche sold in the united states but I would rather have it than a high end lexus coupe like the SC.
Originally Posted by mick1
your argument assumes that the cheapest offering is an inferior product
Last edited by Tandrek; 08-24-2004 at 12:25 AM.
#166
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2002 996TT,2004 996 C2,2005 C230K
Originally Posted by Tandrek
Many would disagree with your rebuttal. There is a reason why the Porsche Boxster is often called a "fake Porsche", or a "poor-man's Porsche". Also, the SC430 and the Porsche Boxster are not in the same class. One is a luxury convertible, while the other is a roadster. SL vs SLK, etc.
The C-Class is, by far, inferior to every other sedan in the Mercedes lineup. It should be... it's the cheapest Sedan in the Mercedes lineup.
The C-Class is, by far, inferior to every other sedan in the Mercedes lineup. It should be... it's the cheapest Sedan in the Mercedes lineup.
Dont want to rain on your CLK320 parade, but it's not much different from C230 SS
Regards,
Serg
#167
Originally Posted by Tandrek
Many would disagree with your rebuttal. There is a reason why the Porsche Boxster is often called a "fake Porsche", or a "poor-man's Porsche". Also, the SC430 and the Porsche Boxster are not in the same class. One is a luxury convertible, while the other is a roadster. SL vs SLK, etc.
The C-Class is, by far, inferior to every other sedan in the Mercedes lineup. It should be... it's the cheapest Sedan in the Mercedes lineup.
The C-Class is, by far, inferior to every other sedan in the Mercedes lineup. It should be... it's the cheapest Sedan in the Mercedes lineup.
i guess we just have totally different views on things.
and i am typing this with an imac, the cheapest apple product but I still like it a whole lot and I don't consider it a fake mac
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#168
Originally Posted by SergC
Dont want to rain on your CLK320 parade, but it's not much different from C230 SS
I personally believe that the C-Class contains some fine vehicles, but the fact that it has a three-point star on it shouldn't outweigh all of the con's when compared with the Acura TL. The Acura TL is essentially unmatched for a combination of luxury, performance, reliability, and amenities in it's price range.
Originally Posted by mick1
whoa. you don't even like the boxster.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Originally Posted by mick1
and i am typing this with an imac, the cheapest apple product but I still like it a whole lot and I don't consider it a fake mac ![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Last edited by Tandrek; 08-24-2004 at 01:06 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tandrek
I was referring to general public opinion. It's quite common for the Porsche Boxster to be considered a fake Porsche. Unless you put an apple sticker on a Dell, nobody is going to use the term "fake Apple".
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Boxster987 C230KSS M3
Originally Posted by mick1
i disagree with your reasoning. here's why: a porsche boxster is also the cheapest porsche sold in the united states but I would rather have it than a high end lexus coupe like the SC. your argument assumes that the cheapest offering is an inferior product but that can be proven to the contrary in many cases.
![bow](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bowdown.gif)
OK, I'm the owner of the cheapest MB and the cheapest Porsche.
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
Someone just said...Fake Porsche? Some people who couldn't even drive or own Boxster can say anything that makes them feel better, but they don't have any clues why one of the Porsche experts admits Boxster is 'the' master piece Porsche ever produced and why sports car experts still pick Boxster as their best.
Cars have characters.
Some people just don't get it.
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Boxster987 C230KSS M3
Originally Posted by SergC
And again,that "common" usually comes from those people who has never owned the car...
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
...and those people who has never owned the car claim they know more than anybody else.
Last edited by jinijazz; 08-24-2004 at 01:30 AM.
#172
Originally Posted by jinijazz
OK, I'm the owner of the cheapest MB and the cheapest Porsche.
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#173
Originally Posted by jinijazz
OK, I'm the owner of the cheapest MB and the cheapest Porsche.
Originally Posted by jinijazz
Someone just said...Fake Porsche? Some people who couldn't even drive or own Boxster can say anything that makes them feel better
Originally Posted by jinijazz
but they don't have any clues why one of the Porsche experts admits Boxster is 'the' master piece Porsche ever produced
Originally Posted by jinijazz
and why sports car experts still pick Boxster as their best.
![wwf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/chairshot.gif)
Once again, for clarification: They're both fine cars, I simply believe that these facts (cheapest cars made by the company) hurt the "prestige" factor.
Last edited by Tandrek; 08-24-2004 at 01:41 AM.
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Boxster987 C230KSS M3
Originally Posted by Tandrek
Or someone who has driven the Porsche 911 and believes that the Boxster isn't in the same league.
Originally Posted by Tandrek
Only one?
Originally Posted by Tandrek
Which experts? Best what? Without specifics, these blanket statements mean nothing. Hell, it could be the "best Porsche under $60k" ![wwf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/chairshot.gif)
![wwf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/chairshot.gif)
------------------
Stuttgart. The Porsche roadster models Boxster and Boxster S have been named best sports cars by "Automobile Magazine" in the United States. In its All-Star Awards for 2004, "Automobile Magazine" - a monthly publication with a circulation of 500,000 copies - awarded the title of "Best Sports Car" to the roadster from Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. The awards were announced at the Detroit Motor Show.
Despite stiff competition, the Boxster received more than 50 per cent of the votes cast by employees of the magazine worldwide. This is the third time that the Boxster has received a prestigious All-Star Award from "Automobile Magazine".
The Detroit Motor Show is currently hosting the world première of the special edition Boxster S entitled "50 Years of 550 Spyder". With output increased by a further six bhp to 266 bhp, this limited edition anniversary model - with just 1,953 units produced - is the most powerful Boxster in Porsche’s history.
Since being launched in the autumn of 1996, more than 150,000 units of the Boxster have been sold worldwide. The roadster has far exceeded the company’s original expectations.
-----------------------------------
...and that's what people call 'common'.
Last edited by jinijazz; 08-24-2004 at 01:53 AM.
#175
Originally Posted by Tandrek
They're both fine cars, I simply believe that these facts (cheapest cars made by the company) hurt the "prestige" factor.