cracker123

Well the problem with me is that, I want to trade in my BMW, this dealer ship gave me the best offer so I only paying 7k more to get this car. but any way post what price you got this car for.

sqkev

i was told by the saleslady that the buyer can only choose either:
1. incentive/rebate/trunk money and go through another bank on financing (which could be more than what MB offers @ 2.9%)
or
2. get a loan through MB with ur apr of 2.9% but no rebate

is that true? (we've already made the purchase..so it doesnt really matter...we just wanted to clarify it for ourselves and maybe the potential buyers reading this thread)

another thing i heard was that cspot can only be used if you qualify for MB loan...is that true too?

so theres no way you could get 5k off MSRP + 2.9%apr + 1500 cspot rite??
otherwise...MB would be out of business

tyro

the c spot coupon can only be used with MB financing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so theres no way you could get 5k off MSRP + 2.9%apr + 1500 cspot rite??
otherwise...MB would be out of business
---------------------------------------------------
Correct. you won't get that.

Nuvolari

HI All,

I'm ready to negotiate a deal on a new 05 230 sport but am a little confused. I see people talking about buying below invoice. How is this possible? I mean how does the dealer sell for below invoice? Also if anyone has some pricing stats or negotiating tips I'd really appreciate it. I'll be buying cash so I figure this gives me a little leverage. I look forward to the tips. Thanks in advance.

GLisella

With me, I paid sticker price, however it was only to receive over $3200 in aftermarket accesories. To me, this is more important because my monthly payment will only differ about 25-50 dollars, whereas I do not want to shell out 3200 for nerf bars, floor mats, deflectors, etc.

dead_eye

You usually have to wait until the car is no a hot commodity. For example, you can easily get a good deal on an 04 model now at well below invoice. I got my '03 c230k sport coupe right before the '04 came out. Got a good deal But I guess it's different now since the '05 is a lot different than the '04 and you probably want those differences.

Buellwinkle

Don't know how they do business in Canada, but in the U.S. it's all supply side economics. Also you have to understand how business is done at a dealership and how much they really pay for a car. First off, invoice is price the dealer buys the car from MBUSA for. If that was then end of the story then in theory that's the cheapest you can buy a car for. But in reality, they get compensated for various things including flooring (financing the car while it's on the floor), various forms of advertising, dealer incentives to move certain models and demos, loaners, etc. The largest kickbackd they get is called holdback and dealer incentive. Dealer incentives can range from hundreds to thousands on a car like on the current 2004 models. Holdback is a percentage that varies from dealer to dealer based on volume and sometimes customer satisfaction and such. So if you go to the largest volume dealer you are likely to get a better deal. Holdback can run as much as profit from MSRP to invoice so paying invoice is not that great of a deal, they are still making about 5%. I've made offers on cars that I thought represented a small but decent profit to the dealer without any hassle to both sides through the internet for invoice less half holdback and some take it, some don't, it's your money. Last but not least, you have to know the dealer's cycle. For example, they'll do anything to make their numbers come month end, quarter end and year end. Dealers cheat and mark cars as sold that aren't just to make number but eventually that catches up with them and they get anxious to dump them, even break even on them (which can be thousands below invoice) and put them in ads as loss leaders to bring people in the showroom. Manfucturers co-op the loss in the form of advertising incentives furthering the bargain.

As an example, my car that I bought about 3 weeks ago was $32K on the sticker, invoice was around $30K yet I drove it home for $25K with the dealer and myself smiling. How was that possible, part was C-Spot for $1,500 off, MB threw in a $2,500 dealer incentive, the dealer sold the car at invoice less some of the holdback. Did they make money, absolutely, was it as much as they wanted, absolutely not. Can't have everything.

tyro

Marry the boss' daughter?

GLisella

Don't marry the boss' wife.

Wiedermann

Mr. Nuvolari:

There are many factors when buying cars... (there are even members on this board that have a LOT to say on the matter as they know the process better )...some factors to consider:

MSRP (Manufacturer sales Retail Price)
Also known as "sticker" price

"Markup"
Normally added by the dealer and it is solely based on a "buy and demand" wave

"Invoice Price"
Supposed to be the price the car was sold to the dealer

Actual price
Which is what the dealer really paid for a vehicle

There are websites out there that for a nominal fee (some even free) will let you know on a particular dealership, how much the paid vs how much the sell the cars for...

Some dealers don't make their profits as much as selling the vehicles... but moving inventory... that is based on volume discounts, Manufacturers "kick back" incentives based on the volume of sales, etc, etc.

Another HUGE factor is the demand.... the US is one of the few countries on this planet that grosses MORE sales than the actual economy can handle... since I am not an economics major, I don't have the skills to explain it... but basically, statistically, an average US consumer person will spend MORE than the person actually can afford.... ... MB world wide sales are 75% made in the US alone ... HOWEVER... recently all sales have taken a dive... especially the last past couple of months... that is based on statistics vs average nation wide as reported for the last quarter US consumer reports; so this is not my data... it is what has actually happened and reported.

Yesterday I made the "mistake" to stop by a MB dealer where I live "just" to "look around" and to my surprise the dealer was and IS willing to take a sale on a brand new SL500 for 10 thousand dollars below MSRP... I made the offer and they responded "are you buying the car today?"... I should add this dealer knows me already... lets say they have seen my "buying patterns"... though the offer and the response by the dealer were impressive... still to that adding the costs of ownership which are (not restricted to, listed in no particular order): insurance, extended warranty, "armor plate" as the dealer calls it, which are tratments of teflon based coatings on the paint, etc, etc still don't make up or justify the purchase for me ... yet .

The reason???... whelp???.. sales have been down and to a dealer is better to sell a car lower than what expected than keeping the item which does not produce any revenue.

In my experience, I have not purchased a car to date where I have paid over sticker (MSRP), infact to most of my vehicles purchased to date, I have always "made an offer" which is always below MSRP but when adding all the "extras" as I call it (some listed immediately in the above paragraph) I normally end up driving the vehicle off the lot for almost as much as the MSRP BUT including all the extras ... that for me has worked in the past and still works as everyone has to make some money.. otherwise dealers would not be in business... but shoving away more money "just because"... I let that to those members that have the "doe" and want to throw (give it) it out

If you (Mr. Nuvolari) want to purchase a car, then it all comes to what you are willing to do... and always, if you don't like what you hear, then you MUST be ready to walk away from the deal... you can always buy a car somewhere else... and/or there will always be another dealership willing to listen to your offer... (3 months ago I "had" to walk away literally while doing the paper work for another, back then 2004 AMG vehicle --another E55 which would have been my second one-- there was no problem on the MSRP sticker price sale... there was a problem with the "rest" of the costs....some other either "lucky" or "stupid" buyer ended up buying it for over than 20 thousand bucks over MSRP... --never knew who it was and WHY would something like that had happened.... again a supply and demand thing... --).. though I didn't get the car... still all the funds I had to purchased the vehicle are still with me under my control --or so I think...lol--.

Cheers!

Wiedermann

Saprissa

huh ?

victor20170

You just have to get used to the way Mr. Wiedermann responds
:p

CitronC230K_03

thats true, widermann has a way of putting a little extra flavor into the thread!

i find them quite enjoyable.

Brian_I.

I'm curious what dealership you go to. I've only had experience with MB or Long Beach and Fletcher Jones.

CitronC230K_03

there are several here in the So Cal region. go to owners online at mbusa.com if you are registered or do a general search. there is Van Nuys, Beverly Hills, West Covina, FJ, Laguna Niguel, Encino, Anahiem, Glendale, L.A., Newport Beach, Buena Park, Torrnece, Arcadia, and Santa Monica are a few.

personally i go to Penske in Claremont, used to go to Penske West Covina until they opened up the new service center.

Buellwinkle

Fletcher Jones uses high pressure sales tactics but they too will sell way below invoice. Don't call or go in there unless you are ready to buy, they will hound you. I must have received 10 phone calls from them on just an inquiry. I prefer MB of Laguna Niguel because they are easier to do business with. I've purchased 2 cars from each so I have a good idea. I don't believe one will sell it to you cheaper than the other though and both have excellent customer service. The only dealer I would stay away from is House of Imports. If you wander in MB of LN ask for John Maxwell, nice guy, low pressure.

Anaheim_Drew

Mr.Buellwinkle Mr.Wiedermann . Excellent explanation on the process of buying a car at a discount. And I have seen a lot since becoming an auto broker in 1986.
cheers

Wiedermann

Mr. Saprissa:
You have to listen to what Mr. victor20170 and Mr. CitronC230K_03 said...

Mr. victor20170 and Mr. CitronC230K_03:

Thank you for your comments... I know I tend to wonder around and sometimes all over the thread with my replies....

The choices of my dealerships are as mentioned by Mr. CitronC230K_03:

As Mr Buellwinkle indicated, "some" (for not saying that MOST) dealers use a "high preasure" sales tactic... which though sometimes annoying... it doesn't matter if I get 1000 calls, I will only say once "NO" and after that there is no way to make me change my mind. Last year a delaersip from which I purcahsed cars before didn't want to negotiate a price, I ended buying from another dealer, you have to remember you are the consumer... if they don't want your money... there is always someone who will!.

Mr. Anaheim_Drew:

You are one lucky on of a gun!... that is if you get to test drive cars all the time!....lol... (sales brokers not always get to test drive cars... sometimes what they do is more paperwork oriented )

My wife keeps telling me that I should get a job as a car salesman... though I don't think I would be able to sell a single car... I would definitely test drives all the cars on the whole dam dealership!...lol... not to count "high pressure" sales... I have no patient... you either are "ready to buy" or not... (that doesn't go very well with sales practice these days...lol)

Mr. MarcusBenz:

Ooooouch!... lol.

I got the chance to meet in person Mr MarcusBenz last week... great guy... I think we spoke for 3 hours just about cars... (I "mainly" went down there to check out the C55...lol)... though I probably have to agree with Mr. Buellwinkle on his overall comment... when I tried calling Mr MarcusBenz at House of imports, the sales man that I got transferred to told me he (Mr MarcusBenz) didn't exist!!!; that so he would talk to me probably make a sell????...

Wiedermann

coconutpolito

Here's what I did,
I went to different dealerships and got quotes from all of them (total of 4). Went into fletcher jones and told them my lowest quote and asked if they could beat it. They,of course, didn't answer my question right away. They gave me some crap as to how the 05 C230k is new and that there really is no reason as to why a dealer would sell below invoice at this particular time. After about 15 minutes of this I told them that if they weren't willing to go below invoice that I would walk away and go to another dealer that would. Be prepared to walk away, also find out what other people have bought the car for, and be firm about what you want. Don't let them give you excuses as to why you should buy a car from them instead of the other guy. Remember it's your money! After everything was said and done I got my 05 C230k for $2250 below invoice with my C-Spot Coupon (if you have one of these don't mention until the deal is done and the paperwork is ready to be printed). Hope this helps.

Guest0001

Seems that MB is the only brand having problems selling there cars. BMW, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti you will have tough time getting invoice on these brands.

Buellwinkle

That's not true, when I checked on Lexus they discounted as much as MB and so did BMW, the problem was that they wouldn't take my C-Spot coupon. Let me give you a real world example, the Lexus IS300 is 31K stripped, invoice is $28K, you can have one for $26K, no coupon required. That's 2K off invoice, not too shabby. All brands sell, the question is did they make more than they can sell? If yes, then you get a deal. Doesn't mean the car is less worthy, less desireable, just means they made more than they can sell. That's the beauty of buying under that circumstance, a year later when they adjust their assembly lines and the prices go back up your resale value goes up with it.

Guest0001

Buell, im taking you with me next time i buy a car.

oggle

Don't. He will spill coffee and donut crumbs all over your car!

Guest0001

lol ill treat him to some krispy kreme afterward. :p

Anaheim_Drew

You were doing well until this last post Mr. Buellwinkle.
The deal a person gets on their car is based on
1. Dealer location. More dealers in an area more competition better price. California has over 40 MBZ dealerships. Better deals for us as opposed to other states. In OC there are 10 in a 30 mile radius.

2. Inventory... More product moved, more can be ordered thus making sales numbers higher. Better in the eyes of the auto maker.

3. Desireability... When the mazada miata came out there was a shortage of inventory. Thus dealers were selling this $20k car for $40k plus. Supply and demand
4. Ford has been the number 1 truck for years. If the maker slowed production, their cost would not increase, but the shortage would allow dealers to increase their price to what ever that market would allow.

5. A special car like a 2004 twin turbo porsche will never sell under invoice (invoice the price the dealer paid for the car.) Limited production, and those who want this car will pay what is asked.