Buellwinkle

What about the waterpump pulley, I would think that would have a high draw on power if overspun with a larger crank pulley.

Outland

Your post is crap because it just discourages interest in a project like this. I have the M111 engine, and there's a pulley sitting in my garage until the car gets parked for winter- So I don't have any personal interest in this particular project. I dislike the attitude that "this car is a finely tuned system and anychanges will destroy it". Nonsense. Look, no one is going to force you to put this on your car- and these aren't your kids, or your insurance business clientel. Right now, people are going to sit back , and take a wait and see approach- if Sauceman's results are promising, Evosport is going to make some dollars and probably earn some respect back on this board. And if it doesn't work out, or if something breaks, I hope Evosport supports Sauceman and makes it right again. ASP did when the infamous ASP Alloy Pulleys had issues. So, don't be poo-poo'ing this for these guys. Its up to them. Obviously, when you tinker with a proven system- there will be some risks. There may be none. There may side effects- that can be managed. Perhaps a better intercooler, or a sprayer system will be employed to help the current one do a better job of reducing the charge temp. So, please refrain from the gloom and doom and freezing supercharger type posts. It will discourage others, and eventually the tuner. That, along with the "I want 300HP for $2.99" grousing(often from the same people that worried about crazy frozen superchargers) is what killed Brandon's Lysholm conversion.

So, I appreciate you following up without saying" F*ck off, I can say what I want" and actually trying to explain your position, I'd ask you to just relax and let this take its course. These folks have waited long enough for some real mods. If the risk is too great, let them decide to say no.

Outland

What's the stock boost on the Cooper S? I thought it was significantly lower than the M271?

If you go with a supercharger pulley, I think you'll have either make it with thinner material on the portion where the belt rides, or shave the cone under the pulley. I had this argument with Kleeman one time, and he insists that the cone intrudes under the pulley, and no clearance exists for a smaller nose pulley. Looking at the pics, its obvious the MB engineers went to great lengths to make more boost difficult. Foolish thinking on a car that they market to this crowd...you gotta build in somereasonably easily attainable HP thru modding, or the car will just die in the aftermarket.

vadim

Yes, Carl - that's exactly what MB wants! And look - you are already out of your ("entry-level") coupe, with a later year sedan...

On a serious note - they better offer more stick across the board... Including AMG, of course!!

Sauceboy01

yes, i missed the water pump pulley.. Sorry!

-Danny

CitronC230K_03

a stick was a major reason for me not getting the CLK. lease vs. finance was one, but a huge factor was no stick with the CLK. i mean, why not have it as a no cost option? whatever. ill just mod my coupe until i get it to where i want.

i would love to see alot more stick hit our shores.

aries palmiotto

Wow, you have some serious issues! My post to you is crap, but your immature attitude to me is something I don't even want to start describing. If you do not like what you read out of my posts, then you should just keep your reservations to yourself.

This is a public board with a wealth of information, but that wealth of information should not be limited to one sided stories or knowledge.

In any scenario, readers must be entitled to know both the upside and downside, if one or more exists. It's not intended to discourage or badmouth anyone just so you know.

Buellwinkle

Sure, maybe they don't have a stick on the Maybach but it did come with a speedometer for the back seat, how many cars have that? Reminds me of when I flew aerobatic aircraft and the front and rear had speedometers (actually air speed indicators).

breastroker

"The whole point is the M271 is near the maximum RPM limit of the supercharger. It is already turning over 2000 RPM more at 6000 engine RPM than the supercharger on the M111 engine.

That is why I suggest starting at only 10 %, 10 % of 16,000 RPM is another 1600! That would mean the supercharger would be turning over 17,600 when the crank is turning 6,000!!!!

I was reading Mercedes Enthusiast, Carlsson talks about the CK20 kit that raises boost pressure 0.1 bar with a smaller pulley and remapped ECU.

Many other cars with superchargers are machining the supercharger snout so that a smaller pulley can be installed. Far less problems than with the larger crank pulley. It seems only the Mercedes crowd uses crank pulleys.

This could be done with one core supercharger, send in your snout and get a pre machned one with a smaller pulley installed. I doubt even a MB mechanic would spot the difference if the smaller supercharger pulley was black.

Below is a machined supercharger snout!

Outland

No I don't. I just been thru this so many times, and it really doesn't help when someone starts off with all the alarmist nonsense. He's hoping to drum up interest. When there's interest, the tuner listens. When someone pops off with the gloom and doom, interest twindles, mods may not happen at all because the tuner sees his dollars blowing away.

I hardly think this this was being childish to you:

But I spoke to soon, and now youre at the "I can say whatever I want" stage. So, lets leave it at that. If you want to continue to pound sand, there's always PM's. Back to the discussion.

Outland

Ever flown on a corporate Jet? Ours has instruments in the cabin, as well as GPS to get your true land speed, current position, and eta...all displayed on two large flat panel TFT's fore an aft. Its pretty neat watching the speed climb to 565mph.

aries palmiotto

I now see your point but I also don't intend to discuss nonsense any further.

FWIW to those wondering how to remove the pulley:

There are 2 common pulley removal tools from MB... one is the 3-stud, and a 5-stud. The 1.8L motor needs the 5-stud, OR...

a compact 3/8 impact gun with at least 260 ft-lbs of torque @ 90psi in reverse (IngersollRand IR2112), with a 27mm socket. This requires removal of most intake plumbing and plastics between the radiator and the front of the engine.

Once the locking nut is removed, the pulley just slides out easily. Remember to reinstall the centering washer since this piece gets lost into the engine's splash liner as the pulley is removed.

vadim

Now, it there were steering wheel and pedals there, too - that would be something!! Also, boost gauge

Outland

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I was just saying that the Mini set up had more headroom than the M271, if the boost numbers I've got in my head are correct for a stock Cooper S.

What's the max rotor speed on the M45?

I read the same article. ME is great mag. I remember someone posting that all the new M271 type engines are all identical expect for boost and mapping. MB did this on the old C180/C200, didn't they? I was rather disappointed that they only got like what, 190HP from it? Granted, thats a nice jump from the 163, but if the motors are more or less identical, why not just bring it up to C230 specs, and then go from there?

Like I said, I had that argument with Kleeman, and he was adamant that the snout couldn't be turned down. I was never fully happy with the Crank pulley solution, and not because it over drove more than just the Supercharger. The Crank Pulley always had max dia, because of clearance issues. That meant that even though you got a nice jump in boost, you were still leaving something on the table, because the m45 still has more in it. Using an undersized SC pulley, you could gain a little more boost even on the M111, and that would be great.


That would eliminate the need for a puller as well, something a lot of people don't have, much less know how to use. A new gasket, and an adjustable torque wrench is all you'd need.
Below is a machined supercharger snout![/QUOTE]

Outstanding.

UStifosi

Word to the wise, whoever posted earlier that this mod won't void your warranty is out of there mind. Read your warranty documentation closely and you will see that this type of mod is NOT covered. Once MB puts your car on the analyzer and the fault history indicates that you were achieving higher boost than normal it's over. It amazes me how many owners are lining up to be part of this little science experiment. Now if you're off of warranty then that's a different matter. I've been tuning engines since most of you were in diapers. Keep in mind that whenever you add significant additional stress whether it be more power, more grip, more whatever on a vehicle something has to give unless you beef up every part involved and whole solution will only be as strong as the weakest link. Bolt on HP is cheap in the beginning and expensive in the end.

Good Luck.

czachari

How often do you rev to 6K? I want more boost in the 2.5-5K range. If I can have 15psi at 5K I'd be shifting there more often.


CZ

CitronC230K_03

im gunning it if i rev it up to 4000 rpm.

Sauceboy01

Alright, these are the Group Buy potentials so far. If you want to be added just post "I AM IN"

1.CitronC230k 03
2.Scottisha
3.JakeSnake
4.nlpamg
5.kiketron
6.breastroker
7.xxbenzc230kxx
8.mctwin2kman
9.tyro ??

mctwin2kman

I rev to redline quite often. Hit the limiter once in a blue moon as well. My wife on the other hand barely hits 5000.....

CitronC230K_03

im a grandma driver for the most part. i used to drive crazy, now i just cruise.

Saprissa

Yup, that pretty much sums it up !

Sauceboy01

Listen, for years now people have been modifying their cars. I did in my WRX and was pushing at least 100hp over stock! w/ 0 PROBLEMS! Now yes, inproper modification will cause issues regardless. But if you have a good tuner your chances for issues are reduced greatly! W/ Evosport i'm not worried. Vadim at Evosport is a great tuner, and i've seen numerous C32's w/ the boost pulley upgrade kits that are running 50k miles and still smooth and issueless.

It is again the users choice to mod or not, but please do not try to scare off other members that are willing to have more power in their cars.

You both still rock!

-Danny

C230 Sport Coup

They can tell what the boost level is?
Hmm...then everyone with an ASP on the 2.3 would already be busted.

breastroker

The M271 has been out almost two LONG years, with little USA development.
From what I can determine the follow mods gain some power:

K&N air filter ~ 2 HP

Renntech muffler ~ 3 HP without other mods up to 5 with ECU and same with pulley upgrade

ECU upgrade ~ 6 HP by self, up to 10 more with muffler upgrade and pulley

Crank pulley (Carlsson, MKB, etc) ~10 -15 HP by self

Crank pulley, ECU, sport muffler and air filter ~ 20-25 HP. The euro tuners charge about $2000, $2600 for that 20-25 HP!!

Stock HP about 157-162 to rear wheels.

We now know the ECU can be programed through the OBD2 port, don't even have to touch the ECU.

A quality steel smaller supercharger pulley should run less than $200, about $400 installed. Combine with a $60 K&N air filter and $600 muffler, another $300 for larger alternator pulley and PS pump pulley.

If Evosport could get us 25 rear wheel HP reliable, it would be worth a grand. Add a better $800 intercooler and perhaps we could have 30-35 HP for under $2000 installed.

Like the C32 AMG brakes, I think Evosport could get 25 cars to sign up for the $1000 kit gaining 25 HP. Maybe another 10 for the kit plus IC.

If we had to go to a crank pulley everything will go up $300-500! That is when all thr crank ballance, and oil seal problems occur.

Sauceboy01

Anyway, let's just wait for all the Dyno results then we can talk numbers etc.. Also I spoke to Vadim today about affordability, and EVOSPORT is going to make this kit VERY VERY affordable (hence we are afterall driving an entry level car)

In the sense of boost increase, he's look about 2 1/2 psi.. Anyway, all this will be proven in testing. Kit should be ready in about 6-8 weeks. I'll keep you all posted.

If you guys want in on the potential group buy (im just gauging interest) please say "I AM IN"

Thanks guys,

-Danny