BMW650i

Crash tests are are based on predetermined scenarios, which in my opinion the Volvo scenario in the article bears little resemblance to many real world situations. The test "experts" assume many factors and all test rating criterias are judged based on their predetermined criterias (who knows if they have any sponsors behind the scenes).

I think a more effective ranking of car safety should just be based on collecting real world crash scenario data and analysing that. How well did occupants survive in all real world crashes by car type, given the cars' technology? That would be objective because the crashes are real and the occupants, if they survived, can also be assessed.

Lets remind ourselves, BMWs are in general a lot safer than other tin cans on the road. Getting into a car is an calculated risk we take every day.

See note from BMW:

I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. We really appreciate that so many of you care about BMW. We would like to answer your questions on “Is the BMW 5 Series safe, and why were the 5 Series results “Marginal” in the IIHS test?”

Since its launch in 2004, the 5 Series has performed exceptionally well in safety tests. BMW prides itself on benchmark levels of active safety (crash avoidance) with numerous standard features working to help customers avoid accidents – by far the best way to survive an accident is to avoid it in the first place. In fact, the 2008 5 Series is the first vehicle in the world available with optional Lane Departure Warning designed to provide a subtle physical steering wheel feedback to alert drivers when leaving a lane without signaling. This system, coupled with standard Enhanced DSC, available Head Up Display and ACC Stop and Go with radar braking, ensures that the 5 Series has state-of-the-art crash avoidance technology.

This does not mean, however, that BMW neglects Passive Safety. The 5 Series has an exceptionally strong and rigid body structure and a full compliment of airbags designed to protect all occupants in the event of a front, side, or rear crash, or even in the event of a complete roll-over. Side impact bars and a strong passenger cell also work to reduce vehicle intrusion in the event of a side crash. In addition, should a crash occur, intelligent engineering ensures that as much impact force as possible is channeled throughout the body structure and away from occupants.

In the case of the 5 Series crash test, the IIHS “Marginal” result was due to one specific area of contact that the dummy recorded at the IIHS defined seat position; the car that was tested missed a better result by a fractional amount. It is our opinion that the results of the IIHS crash test could have been much more positive depending on the location of the seat, slight positioning of the dummy, or normal test tolerances. It is important to note that BMW does computer simulations as well as multiple physical crash tests to ensure each vehicle model achieves the highest levels of crash safety.

The IIHS test was a single, standardized test, subject to tolerances, and is not a pass-fail test for vehicle safety on the road. In other words, it was one test on one day on one car in one laboratory. A slight variation in seating position would have produced a different and better result.

As the only one vehicle manufacturer that has the autonomy to pursue innovative ideas, safety, performance and agility are the number one priorities for BMW and the carmaker is always looking to the newest technology to offer to its customers. We initiated an Accident Research Project. The goal is to determine the cause of injuries in real-world crashes beyond the crash testing. Their findings will be used to develop new safety features in the design of all future BMW vehicles. BMW has been conducting research in Germany for more than 30 years.

In the US, BMW has been taking a multi-disciplinary approach pairing BMW’s engineering prowess with the medical trauma expertise of the University of Miami/Jackson Ryder Trauma Center. BMW and the Trauma Center will dispatch a team to inspect damaged vehicles after an accident and then through an accident reconstruction and a bio-mechanic evaluation of the injuries, the real-world performance of the vehicle will be discussed. The results are constantly fed to various development departments for further enhancements in BMW design and safety aspects.

Fact is more powerful than anything else. We are confident that, on-the-road in the real world, BMW vehicles are among the safest. This conclusion is supported by real-world crash data not only in the US, but worldwide. If you would like to get further information regarding BMW or need our assistance, please feel free to call us at (800) 831-1117, visit http://www.bmwusa.com or email us at CustomerRelations@bmwusa.com.
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BMW NA Customer Relations


With all the fricken drivers these days and their cell phones strapped to their ear (get a damn BT at least) Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

I agree but unfortunately no everyone's cell phone has BT.

RLE

[<<Hmm why did you need to pay extra for a cd player with the P2 package? The P2 package has the multimedia package right? So that already includes the cd player.>>

Wrong. P2 and MM are separate options. MM, not P2, does include a single slot 6 disc CD changer and well it should for $2950.

P2 is a paltry $2750. Gasp!

RLE

I had to read this tome from BMW public relations several times and I would say if this is the best answer BMW can come up with, they may need some new excuse composers.

<<I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. We really appreciate that so many of you care about BMW. We would like to answer your questions on “Is the BMW 5 Series safe, and why were the 5 Series results “Marginal” in the IIHS test?”>>

Since its launch in 2004, the 5 Series has performed exceptionally well in safety tests. BMW prides itself on benchmark levels of active safety (crash avoidance) with numerous standard features working to help customers avoid accidents – by far the best way to survive an accident is to avoid it in the first place.>>

This idea is hardly new since those of us with smaller cars having been saying this for decades. "Get out of the way."

<<In fact, the 2008 5 Series is the first vehicle in the world available with optional Lane Departure Warning designed to provide a subtle physical steering wheel feedback to alert drivers when leaving a lane without signaling. This system, coupled with standard Enhanced DSC, available Head Up Display and ACC Stop and Go with radar braking, ensures that the 5 Series has state-of-the-art crash avoidance technology.>>

Now he is injecting the Fog Factor, attempting to confuse and distract with non-relevant discussion. What does this have to do with side-impact collisions?

<<This does not mean, however, that BMW neglects Passive Safety. The 5 Series has an exceptionally strong and rigid body structure and a full compliment of airbags designed to protect all occupants in the event of a front, side, or rear crash, or even in the event of a complete roll-over. Side impact bars and a strong passenger cell also work to reduce vehicle intrusion in the event of a side crash. In addition, should a crash occur, intelligent engineering ensures that as much impact force as possible is channeled throughout the body structure and away from occupants.>>

Precisely what MB says, and surely many others.

<<In the case of the 5 Series crash test, the IIHS “Marginal” result was due to one specific area of contact that the dummy recorded at the IIHS defined seat position; the car that was tested missed a better result by a fractional amount. It is our opinion that the results of the IIHS crash test could have been much more positive depending on the location of the seat, slight positioning of the dummy, or normal test tolerances.>>

So then, unless I am sitting in just the right place with the seat just so, I can kiss my a** goodbye?

<<It is important to note that BMW does computer simulations as well as multiple physical crash tests to ensure each vehicle model achieves the highest levels of crash safety.>>

Blah blah blah, just like all the others. More smoke.

<<The IIHS test was a single, standardized test, subject to tolerances, and is not a pass-fail test for vehicle safety on the road. In other words, it was one test on one day on one car in one laboratory. A slight variation in seating position would have produced a different and better result.>>

Said before and the same answer applies. If I'm an inch off, one way or another, all bets are off?

<<As the only one vehicle manufacturer that has the autonomy to pursue innovative ideas, safety, performance and agility are the number one priorities for BMW and the carmaker is always looking to the newest technology to offer to its customers.>>

The ONLY manufacturer? What about Porsche, as one glowing example? And what does he mean, "one vehicle"? Looks to me like BMWs all the way from the new one series to the X-5 and the God-awful 7 are very different from each other requiring different structural approaches to crushability.

<<We initiated an Accident Research Project. The goal is to determine the cause of injuries in real-world crashes beyond the crash testing. Their findings will be used to develop new safety features in the design of all future BMW vehicles. BMW has been conducting research in Germany for more than 30 years.>>

Late to the party, I would say. Mercedes in Germany has had a Go-Team for years that investigates MB-involved accidents on-site before the wreckage is cleared away in cooperation with the German police.

<<In the US, BMW has been taking a multi-disciplinary approach pairing BMW’s engineering prowess with the medical trauma expertise of the University of Miami/Jackson Ryder Trauma Center. BMW and the Trauma Center will dispatch a team to inspect damaged vehicles after an accident and then through an accident reconstruction and a bio-mechanic evaluation of the injuries, the real-world performance of the vehicle will be discussed.>>

If I were involved, I would hope that I would be headed for the nearest Trauma Center long before the BMW guys showed up in their white lab coats and clipboards.


BMW NA Customer Relations
__________________


I've seen a lot of these manufacturer's responses to less-than-great test results by various entities and they have a common thread. Dazzle them with BS and say nothing substantive. This is a shining example of that approach.

rmd714

2008 C300 Lux, 4Matic, Premium 1, Palladium Silver, Multimedia Package = $39,000. ($1,500 under MSRP)

S420merc

I ordered a C350 P2 MM with 18 inch AMGs, Steel Silver.
MSRP $43.285.00 got $1500.00 off sticker.

pmb600

That's probably a good thing, these new C-Class are leasing like s***!

maytag

Just got back from the dealership and added the Panorama Sunroof for another $930, you would figure they already got us as a customer that they could knock off a bit more than $70 from the MSRP price. One great perk I did find out about our dealership is complimentary free car washes Mon-Sat 9am-2pm, great bonus considering that we ordered the C350 in Black.

pmb600

I'd be careful about that free carwash from the dealer. Probably an automatic car wash that might be good to put some swirl marks in your black paint.

MBTex

That may be true...my dealership actually gave me a tour of everything, including the car wash (not automatic). I'd say it is a safe question to ask, but for me I know it'll be hand washed.

maytag

Our salesman walked me through the inventory (not many W204s) in the back to demo the Pano Roof so we can make a final decision on the option. He then mentioned the car washing perk as we walked pass the detailing area, a car just left the hand washing area (suds still all over it) and was being driven through a rinsing booth which looked like a mechanical car washing stall but this contraption did not spin as fast as the typical Chevron washing stalls. I questioned the possibility of scratches or swirl marks and his reply was "do you think we'd put our $100k vehicles through there if we thought it could cause scratches?). I was welcomed to have a good inspection of all the cars because they all went through the same process due to the recent rains. I'll probably ask for another tour just to watch a few cars go through the entire wash process, so far the detailing and service areas look top notch.

MBTex

That's a good point. Most MB dealerships wash every car that comes in for service. It doesn't make sense that they would put a $130,000 S into something that could damage it in any way.

So, I'd say you're safe with the dealer car washes unless your dealer is smaller; or if you think they hand wash the S's but take the C's down the road to the gas station car wash...

oblu

I saw an SLR go through the touch car wash at our dealer. We've taken my wife's car (very light color) through there 2 times and it's got swirling from it.

Nothing that won't polish out, but it's there.

To a dealer, a car is just a commoditity. Doesn't matter if it's worth 20k or 120k. They could care less about the condition of the paint, as long as they can offer up the washes as a perk over their competition.

pmb600

Very good points. Also the dealer knows better than anyone that the majority of people lease their cars, so they really don't care that much since they turn it in after 2-3 years.

RLE

<<That's a good point. Most MB dealerships wash every car that comes in for service. It doesn't make sense that they would put a $130,000 S into something that could damage it in any way. So, I'd say you're safe with the dealer car washes unless your dealer is smaller; >>

Ohhh, boy.

Like a fool, I asked for a "courtesy wash" at my dealer (they are BIG) six months ago (first and last ever) and it was a huge mistake. I had the same idea, what could happen, after all? It wasn't the car wash itself, but the trained apes running the thing. I watched through an elevated window as my Obsidian Black C320 progressed toward the washer and watched as one of "them" picked up a long handled brush used for wheels and scrubbed across the roof and them across the tail end before it went into the washer. It was blown semi-dry and it wasn't until I got it home into the garage that I saw the scratches (not just swirls) all over the top and the back end.

Pause for top to blow off.

After that fateful day, I have spent perhaps twenty hours with my random-orbital buffer removing about 95% of the damage. I did have a word with the service manager later.

I will be going back to NO WASH at all future service visits.

Chaz00Blue

I ordered it with the multi media package and the metalic paint, palladium silver to be exact. I also ordered the grey black due to the high sun where I live. I think that I got a great deal by approching many dealers in the area. My MSRP comes to $41,710 with destination charge. I offered $39,350, and I did get 1 dealer to take it. I figured it was worth a 2 hour drive to save $2360. My local dealer wanted $1,000 to order and then they wanted full sticker. The other guy only asked for $500.

esb016

I got a 2008 Brand New E350 with the following:
1.) PII package
2.) Sports Option
3.) Designer Burl Walnut
4.) Side Shades
5.) IPOD Integration
6.) Metallic Paint Option
7.) Wood Leather Steering

MSRP = $58,900
Invoice = $54000

Paid = $53,00

I got it in Northern CA.

MBTex

I think you need to post that on the W211 board...this for for W204's...

Very nice deal though

Lakerz4sho

You have to be pimpin to get 48,700 off the price of a car. teach me your ways

mb_horseshoe

Tell us what you paid for your new W204 - the insight into the dealership car-wash was nice, but slightly off topic.

I just offered, through the internet, the following:

C300 Sport with

Metallic Paint
Multimedia Package
18" AMG Wheels

MSRP: $36,635

I offered 3% over invoice - $34,406 and it was accepted.

FINAL OTD PRICE, including TTL - $38,514

I haven't actually placed the order, still going to shop it a little more...

pmb600

What is it with the newbie's today?? There was another one in the MB Tex vs. Leather forum that had the nerve to get some attitude. Calm down mb horseshoe...sometimes things don't stay exactly on the subject of the thread, that is ok.

Smorris

Speaking of newbies! (first post)

C300 Sport w/4-Matic
Steel Gray Metallic
Gray/Black MB Tex interior
P2 package
C350 rear spoiler (we were ordering, so added spoiler at $394. Dealer found car in transit, and will add spoiler painted in house, so it should have cost ~$800)
Winter Floor Mats (no charge)
Cargo Area Tray (no charge)
M-B coffee mug (yes, they actually put it on the invoice at no charge. )

Build your own cost: $39,329
We paid: $38,675
Savings: $654 (1.66%)

Stiggs

Wow...you act like you were forced to be a car salesman. How about go get another job.

mike10980

If you hate the job so much, why don't you get another one?

I don't want to work with a salesman who has such a negative view of his customers. I guess some of YOUR kind made the profession less-than-noble for the consumers. Next time, don't be so quick to point the finger. You don't like dealing with the customer...trust me, dealing with the salesman at my local dealership isn't my ideal way of spending a Saturday. Moreover, if $300 is not a big deal, why don't you just deduct $300 from the price of the car when you sell it to the customer? Ah, it's all perspective.

-Mike

oblu

Somewhat agree, and somewhat disagree. Bottom line is, you either will or you won't. As a sales person you can't get "beat up" by a customer over a few hundred dollars unless you're willing or desperate. Just tell the customer it isn't going to happen and politely move them toward the door.

mb_horseshoe

What's with the veterans flexing their muscle on newbies? I simply asked for the thread to stay on-topic, there was no "attitude" as you suggested. I also had a post that was on-topic with information that I was hoping would help others, as is the point of these forums, unlike your worthless post that simply fosters negativity and confrontation.

What difference does it make if it comes from a newbie or a "supermember"? posts that ask for threads to stay on-topic are common, especially from moderators.

Your humble newbie,

horseshoe