Luke_Geezy

dude im not saying a louder growl from under the hood means the car is going faster. im saying the louder sound is from higher air flow. like frank said, stock filters out filter, not out flow K&N high flow drop ins. if they outflowed K&N's and Greens, why would so many people immediately switch out the stock filters? for name brand? i dont think so buddy. K&N has proven results. they are not a huge name brand out of nowhere. their products work. as frank said again, eurocharged has sold millions of intake setups because they have proven HP gains. its not imaginary. im not trying to be a dick by any means, but come on..

ohlord

they advertise. Look up the certified testing of Oem vs K/n and others
K/N outflowed for 30 minutes then underflowed and also passed finer dirt that damages engines.And since both out flow what the engine can use makes no difference HP wise
Air Flow Sound? Laser temp gun at stand still is hardly an under closed hood at speed test.
The Op set up is sucking in heated under hood air put a probe in the engine compartment record the temps measure the difference between that and the outside ambient air. Air travels the path of least resistance those cones are going to pick up the hot air
The oem system picks up cold air
Before you decide about what to be get it on a dyno and prove what works

Your own dyno test not K/N's

Sprint booster sells a lot of units also and even they have the courage to admit it is merely a feeling of performance gain. Something k/N won't admit since they spend their dollars on wooing people that believe sound means power

Luke_Geezy

wooing people that believe sound means power? false. wooing people who believe sound means higher flow. which is true. if you heat shield the OP setup, he wont be sucking in hot air. as for your "finer dirt" that damages engines, K&N also sells PreCharger/DryCharger over-filter covers that block out that "Finer Dirt" that damages engines. do you honestly believe the stock setup out performs an aftermarket setup if done properly? also, are you one of those people who think modding a mercedes is destroying/ruining the car? it sounds like it.

ohlord

my profile? That is an E55 powered W210 wagon so modifying is not against my religion. Sticking a small block 383 into a fintail MB this winter.
The only way the op will get cold air is to link those filters into a closed system hooked to an inlet that leads outside. I.E. you know what system

Sound does not equal air flow or horsepower The sound is because you moved the source of air from outside the car and put it inside the hood closer to your ears.

Why don't you buy one of eurocharged cryogenic units?If you believe that for $135 you can drop intake temps 50 degrees you are just the guy they market to
That guy they always attribute the famous PT Barnum quote to has nothing on some people

mike_benzc300

i seem to have lost 3 miles per gallon today by installing the cone filters...

ohlord

are quoting frank you might look up the non certified test he pointed out and examine that k/n filtered less and in that test outflowed the stock filter by .14% not 14% .14%psi statistically zero
So you might want to take it with a grain of salt..The advice that is.

FrankW

duh as I already said. you seem to have problem reading and typing.

btw, those dyno I'm talking about are done by Eurocharged on their C32 and customer's C32s. NOT from K&N. plus the fact that you seem to fail to realize that the OP, me and other people who has changed the filters has the ECU tune which benefits from anything that has better flow.


and btw, \ your Avatar has a WALD kit and obviously NOT your car. which one do you claim to be a E55 powered wagon? pictures of the car and engine?

and like I've said, the intake does have a little more growl with the K&N. why? because it doesn't have a giant 1"x2" side slab blocking the airflow like the stock filter does on the M272.

jctevere

Lol, this thread makes me laugh. K&N does provide more flow than the stock oem setup, UNDER the right circumstances. Since it is mounted in the engine bay, it has a much greater surface area for capturing air (360 degrees). Where as the oem filter might potentially be capable of providing better flow if it was not restricted by the air box or by the two intake channels. Because of this, the K&N filters improve the airflow, and therefore, the loudness of the sound (at the exhaust).

If this air was cold however, the increased air flow would translate into power gains. But because it is pulling in hot engine bay air (especially at idle) these potential power increases are diminished (and in some cases, can have a negative impact on performance). Personally, I don't find it worth it to swap out the oem filters for K&N because of the upfront cost, and because the power gains are minimal at best and lastly, because of issues people have been having with oil from the filters messing up their MAF. If you find a way to modify the heat shield and get it installed, then maybe we will see some real benefit.

I wouldn't be surprised that you lost 3mpg on your average after the install. Not only because you were probably flooring it around town to hear the roar, but also because your probably pulling in a decent amount of hot air.

How do you know that both the oem and K&N filters themselves are the bottlneck in the air setup, and that they both outflow the m272 (c300) motor capability?

loungn14

Hey guys, I figured I would post up as I know probably more about what worked on the 32 then anyone as far as air flow.

My car had just about every possible combination of things you can try. Being as we have our own dyno, it was quite easy to test things and do pulls.

Frank is right

In the order or air flow and dyno numbers it was like this...

OEM filters < KN filters < Eurocharged Intake. Now add tuning on top of that and you really see gains like frank said.

Here is a sound clip when we first did the intake...

And yes the cryo intake system doesnt work....but there is something to be said about using the chiller for the heat exchanger and fuel rail.

delirium

Seems to make sense considering that most race teams use performance filters. If the OEM was better, I'm sure they would stick with those.

delirium

Hey Guys,

If i was to fashion a heat shield, would i want it to surround the cone 100% (360 degrees) or just on the side that faces the engine?

Luke_Geezy

just the side that faces the engine and then a little more. you can loook on google to see exactly what you would want it to look like. just a piece of SS with a few bends in it should do. should look something like this...

not the baby pitbull, the heat shield lol

jctevere

About the heat shield, Luke is right. Although it might be a little difficult to observe from the picture. It would be ideal having a ram air setup where the cone filter is completely isolated from the engine bay, (especially from the back and underneath) If you left the top open it would be fine (because the hood would close down and isolate 90% of the area, leaving just the front open for fresh air). Sick dog by the way... Haha, love the eye color.

delirium

some better pics, and the bad news is that its so tight with this size cone that there may not be any room for heat shields. The good news is that the factory ram air is pointed right into the cone.

It seems like with the direction of the throttle body, someone should try removing the factory air box, attaching a cone or custom air box to the top top of the TB directly and make a custom hook with air scoop/intake that will push air directly to the filter. This would eliminate the entire factory airbox & "T" intersection restriction... anyone up for that DIY?

jctevere

What if you just fabricate a sheet of metal that goes from the inner (middle) edge of each air intake hole, to the inner side of the cone filter (closest to the engine, and then wrap it underneath. This way it is shielded from the engine and the air is truly directed into the filter. I am sure it could fit, just a thin sheet of metal. Even if you have to take the engine cover off to install it, and have it sit below the cover, and then put it back on. I am sure a local fabricator could do this for you.

EDIT:
Here is a crude mock-up of what I am talking about. The red would be metal that is showing, and the orange dotted line would be metal that is underneath the filter.


You could weld it to the actual cone filter and bend it around. Would be a very cheap solution, and you would only need a very thin sheet. Very capable of doing, and then you would still be able to remove it when needed. This is the cheapest and easiest solution I can think of...

delirium

jctevere: not a bad idea. I wonder if this can be a DIY. maybe some sheet metal or fiberglass.

I was hoping to make some sort of collar that can go around the velocity stack side of the cone to keep it in place instead of welding it.

btw the "chrome" parts of the cone are actually plastic.

BEEPbeepZIPtang

either way you slice it, your no longer in a ram air setup. its that simple.

the MB ram air is already a CAI and really can't be improved upon.

you think Brabus, Kleemann and other reputable aftermarket competitors haven't been barking up this tree for a long time...but 40 bucks worth of filters is going to do the trick?

you think they're developing boxes for AMG models that cost thousands of dollars and give minimal gains just because?

other than looks, its only depreciating performance...and the looks are suggestive anyway. whomever is cool with that, it's their car and they should be able to do with it what they want...but don't be naive about the functionality.

this isn't the 1990's and connecting a 2.5' inlet tube that touches the ground and attaching a filter to it on a civic doesn't cut it anymore. you shouldn't F with the technology unless your using the, I know it hurts performance but I like it anyway, argument.

EDIT: on the other side of the coin, if you had a vented hood, this setup "could" hypothetically improve airflow but it would look horrible as the vents would be at the very front of the hood.

delirium

Vented hood design, completely removing the factory airbox. The TB is at the back of the hood, but would not fit w/ the look of the MB anyway, more like a hot rod.

BEEPbeepZIPtang

i'm aware of where the TB is located and the angle it sits but what does it's location have to do with the position of the intake filters? the intakes could theoretically be located in the trunk...wouldn't matter. it would just take that much more pressure to force the air, albeit colder than under the hood, to travel that distance which would result in loss of power. but i bet dollars to donuts it wouldn't lose much more than the set up your currently running.

if you get a chance, look at the jim conforti heat shields for the e46's....minus the foam filter which I was never a fan of. that might help you with some design ideas. keep in mind there was a fair amount of usable space with the inline 6 motors...the 204's have it shoe horned in there.
also, save yourself the trouble of going down to the local arts and crafts shop, picking up some aluminum and metal shears cuz that ain't gonna help a lick unless you have it fab'd to the precise millimeter...and still prob not.

delirium

All im saying is that due to the location & angle of the TB it'd be cool if someone modded the Hood to have a hood scoop on the hood which direct air right to a filter which can be attached directly to the TB. Or have the Filter popping out of the hood like a hot rod. (joking... kinda)

Why even consider this? because the bottleneck in the OEM intake seems like its in the "T" junction to the TB, so that would be one way to get rid of that bottleneck.

BEEPbeepZIPtang

yeah, but with any V block your always going to get a T junction. 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, ect. I shouldn't say always but i can't think of a single V motor off the top of my head that doesn't.

back to the topic...you mean something like this?

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ered-hood.html

one of the only 10 second c63's out there. when your going as fast as Dadc63 enough cold dense air and enough traction are the things he needs/wants most...and of course the proper A/F mixture with the bottle...but that is a diff topic.

if he had two cones attached to his inlet tubes with that motor making that much power, waiting for the tree to turn green, he would already be a huge disadvantage. those guys know what their doing with that car and if cone filters were the way to go, he'd be using them.

jonmartin

Oh ya suck up all that hot air baby..

FrankW

actually tuners including Brabus, Kleemann, Carlsson, all recommend performance filters after getting the car tuned. Renntech also makes a larger airbox.

gauze type filters like the K&N, Green, and BMC all flows better than the paper filters. granted they may not filter as well.

AMG airbox are designed the way they are because of the space taken up by the M156 in the 63 cars. the C55/CLK55 203/209 airbox was not any different than the CLK500 airbox other than color and the AMG badge. M112k and M113k airbox are designed that way to go around the supercharger and they way they are designed did not maximize the performance. starts with the M112k's bottle neck T-pipe at the throttle body and M113k actually sees better gain with RENNtech airbox.

truth of the matter is when you increase the airflow you will gain performance especially on cars that are tuned.

with the cone filter up front or with the gauze filters inside the airbox either one of them eliminates the side slab of the paper filter that blocks 2/3 of the inlet of the airbox which ultimately improves the airflow.

ulovemybenzo

ur filters make me think of this guy

BEEPbeepZIPtang

Frank, why you quotin' me man? I'm not talking about the filter itself...just location. I've got K&N drop in's. I never disputed the airflow thing you guys were talking about earlier. I'm talking about heat soak problems only.

I know and wasn't arguing that the factory box is pretty close to perfect. the K&Ns or BMCs slightly improve flow.