soflac

and I don't mean the kind of natural gas you get after taco bell!

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a few months and have really enjoyed this forum. People always argue about whether technology is a good or bad thing...forums are one of the greatest things to come out of the internet. Back in the 70's or 80's we would have to go to a freakin' library to get 1/3 of the information we get in forums.

Anyway, back to my post. What do you guys think about converting our vehicles to run on propane gas? My mom converted her 2002 Avalanche and has had zero problems with the car or the conversion.

I am considering a business venture involving vehicle conversions so kinda wanted to know what you think. I am actually considering converting my vehicle as an actual demo vehicle for the product. So it may be the first DIY of this sort. Their has been an increased awareness about this alternative fuel source lately. ....Thanks!

Sportstick

The issue with alternative fuels is not always the motivating technology, itself, as the infrastructure for refueling. I don't see an existing capability for drivers to pull up to refuel conveniently and predictably. The issue has a "chicken and egg" aspect, but without a strong distribution network for refueling, there will remain little interest.

soflac

Yep. Completely agree. Thanks for responding. The good news is that more and more are popping up. Here in florida there are a couple locations and many u-hauls offer filling services. The good news from what I understand is you can run on your regular gas between fillings if need be...

Carsy

Here in Australia LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) gas is a viable alternative in the built up areas & very much cheaper . The filling stations are not so common in the country.

What I would like to see is a lot more research going into ways to convert cars,buses, trucks & rail to run on Natural Gas.With the amount of off shore & coal gas deposits in Australia & USA ,there would be no need for imports from the unstable parts of the world.

sudhanshu3

In India this has been done since last decade. On my recent trip i learnt that now even the big name car companies(read Hyundai,suzuki, mitsu) provide cars with natural gas/LPG fitted kits.
I fail to understand if a country like India can do this why can't we do this in US. I think the main motivation over there is gas price. LPG/ natural gas is so much cheaper than petrol(what we call gas here in US).

I would be interested in this business venture.

haykf1

I visited Armenia and probably 50% of vehicles running on NG. Most of the devices are Italian. MB converts to NG pretty well. BMW are bad, always issues with running NG. All taxis, busses are running NG. it sucks, loss of power, cars blow up very often and carrying heavy tank in the trunk. I think electric or hybrids have better future than NG. The reason for NG is cheaper price and only, there are no benefits except for pollution. I would never convert my car to NG, rather drive pyrys or something.

Speedriven1

I think it's a good enough idea that we're pursuing it in this area. In addition to UHaul locations, RV campgrounds also tend to offer gas fill-up as well ... going a step further, any home that has city gas can be fitted with a filling station like this one: http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...ueling-photos/

Speedriven1

All of those things are just as true about cheap nitrous or meth injection kits - usually the guys with the Mercedes or the big OEMs selling to consumer will pay to do something right, while governments and fleets will cut corners and buy from the lowest bidder, so of COURSE it's going to be crap in those applications.

jctevere

Here you go:

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/locator/stations/

There are a lot more palces that sell than you think. Just click on details and it will let you know if it is available for public or private use.

I think that Natural gas has potential, but only in the liquified form, which is hard to maintain for right now.

In the short-term I think that biodiesel/hybrid vehicles will pave the way for the next 5 or so years.

soflac

Hey thanks for the replies. You all make some very interesting points. Thanks for the articles. I am going to drive my Mom's Avalanche for a bit and get a feel for it. It's been running this way for about 3 years. Last time I drove it, it was as simple as pushing a button on the fly. It just switches over without a hesitation or anything. And you can switch back on the fly too. I thought that was interesting. They haven't had any mechanical issues at all.

I think that if it became more readily available, there would be those folks that would convert just for the "Eco/Green" benefits as opposed to the cost savings.

I'm still doing my research in order to decide whether or not to install a kit in my car. If I do, we will document it.

Carsy

With more research these drawbacks can be overcome.

Just think of massive supplies of fuel in your own country that could be available for all transport at a reasonable cost, less pollution, full independence from OPEC & a much improved balance of payments. .

All that is required is the will to change .

Change will probably be brought on sooner or later anyway .

Acapulco Bill

Converting vehicles and running on LP or LNG is currently practical for local company fleets, taxis and service vehicles where fuel can be stored and dispatched from a central home office location. It is impractical and unrealistic to think of a massive migration to these fuels as it requires investing in yet another huge infrastructure of service stations to supply this energy to a small number of vehicles.

More practical (IMO) is the route of the chevy Volt et al, where about 85% of all commuters can provide, from their homes or parking facilities, their transportation energy needs for an estimated cost of around $1.50 a day. And electricity is already pretty much everywhere, requiring a minimum of investment to provide recharging stations, mostly in the home. Those needing further range before recharging will have a backup gasoline engine, the service station infrastructure already exists for this. The EPA combined estimate is around 60 MPG.

If this electricity can be provided by renewable or natural means (wind, ocean, solar, hydroelectric or geothermal) then this option is a truly ecological (not necessarily economical) solution.

By law in England new homes must be energy self-sufficient beginning soon (2013?). If cars in the US were required by law to obtain at least half their energy requirements via some adaptation of solar energy in the household, genuine sustainable ecological conservation would be a reality.

But definitely neither NG nor LP provide a viable solution.

Carsy

LNG for shipping .

vpdfan

Hi everyone. I have been reading a bunch on here about the different electric (Nissan Leaf), Parallel Hybrid (Toyota Prius, GM, Ford, everyone), and now Extended Range Electric (GM Volt). I figured I would jump in as I work in automotive and personally do a bit of work in this area. They all have different technologies driving them and are quite different:

1) Pure Electric - Pluses - No fuel, no combustion, runs off energy from grid. Negatives - Short range (30-50 miles total), long recharge times (8 hrs on 110V, 4 on 220V)

2) Hybrid (Parallel) Runs on either the electic motor or combustion engine (or both) - Pluses - Good gas mileage for city driving (stop and go), regen breaking, fewer emmissions. Negatives - Additional cost (generally break even is around 9 years+), Not any better on gas mileage for highway than traditional combustion, duriablity still unknown, batteries are hazardous when junked

3) Extended Range Electric (Volt only) - Electric vehicle with on-board (small) combustion generator. Only drives in electric mode. Combustion Generator powers up batteried when depeleted. Pluses - Range of combustion with benifits of electric. Plug-in option like pure electric Negatives - High cost (currently) ROI is around 18 years+ compared to a 4 cylinder gas car. (Chevy Cruze)

VPDFAN

Tiphereth

I'm from Armenia, here about 80% of cars run on CNG. I've converted my car to CNG month ago and I'm pretty happy with this. If you buy a good hardware kit and have a proper installation - there is no power loss and any trouble. Runs perfectly and is 3 times cheaper than petroleum (here). Power loss is an often problem, if you don't get an ignition timing adjuster with the kit (NG is mainly methane, which has octane of ~115-120 and burns slower than petroleum, so you need a corrector as STAG TAP or any other)