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Spacers???

 
Old 05-31-2011, 10:19 PM
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Spacers???

Why is it that people hate wheel spacers? Is there a difference in ride/feel or is it just a piece of mind thing??
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fefo25 View Post
Why is it that people hate wheel spacers? Is there a difference in ride/feel or is it just a piece of mind thing??
LOL...it's a piece of metal thing!!

More unsprung weight does all the wrong things...slower acceleration, longer braking, more fuel consumption, ride deterioration...the goal is to find the lightest wheels you can.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:36 PM
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^none of those symptoms listed you will notice at all...I have had them on several cars, never noticed any of that one bit (before and after) and I'm sure others who run them will say the same. Unless you have ever ran them yourself, than there really is nothing to say but you have just been given over-exaggerated info from others who more than likely never ran them to experience any of that themselves

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Old 05-31-2011, 10:38 PM
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Also, the goal is to buy wheels with the proper fitment to begn with. You're spending the money, so why not get the correct setup from the get go?
Spacers are fine to use though and are an easy way to fiddle with the look of your car.
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx View Post
^none of those symptoms listed you will notice at all...I have had them on several cars, never noticed any of that one bit (before and after) and I'm sure others who run them will say the same. Unless you have ever ran them yourself, than there really is nothing to say but you have just been given over-exaggerated info from others who more than likely never ran them to experience any of that themselves
The physics is the physics, but driver sensitivity varies. I can feel the difference from just switching different weight models of same size wheels. By the time one moves from 17" to larger (heavier) wheels, which usually precedes using spacers, the incremental weight stack-up becomes more noticeable...if you are sensitive to such things. However, I will not accuse you of "under-exaggerating", but just assume you are satisfied with the actions you selected.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:15 PM
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Changing wheel sizes/and or weights are one thing, especially when there are 3-5+ lbs difference for each wheel, but wheel spacers, you wont notice a thing.

Last edited by xXHotelCrazyXx; 05-31-2011 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx View Post
^none of those symptoms listed you will notice at all...I have had them on several cars, never noticed any of that one bit (before and after) and I'm sure others who run them will say the same. Unless you have ever ran them yourself, than there really is nothing to say but you have just been given over-exaggerated info from others who more than likely never ran them to experience any of that themselves
Figured that. Just wondered why people dont like it. Thought there was a good reason.
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Old 06-01-2011, 01:13 AM
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There really is no "good" reason. People just think that everyone need to spend loads of $$$ to spend on custom offsets or you will "destroy your cars engineering lol" or finding a wheel that looks good with the perfect offset which rarely happens. Spacers are a good, cheap, effective mod that enhance the look of the car and marginally improve handling by widening the track of the car.

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Old 06-01-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
LOL...it's a piece of metal thing!!

More unsprung weight does all the wrong things...slower acceleration, longer braking, more fuel consumption, ride deterioration...the goal is to find the lightest wheels you can.
Four 8 ounce spacers adds weight worth posting about?

Ok then, OP lose two lbs of body fat and you've got cake and are eating it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:14 AM
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the big thing with spacers is fitment. MB wheels are hubcentric and seat a certain way, the hub takes alot of the pressure of the road, and most spacers are just rings and pressure the bolts directly, not the hub. If your racing or rough on ur car, u want quality lugs, and hubcentric spacers for MB. Im not a fan of them, I think ur better off with proper hubcentric wheels, unless ur trying to push ur stock wheels out a little, then its a different story, u have no choice
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Richie999 View Post
Four 8 ounce spacers adds weight worth posting about?

Ok then, OP lose two lbs of body fat and you've got cake and are eating it.
The goal in most good engineering is to take out weight, not add it. I have not weighed a spacer, but 2 pounds here, a larger/heavier wheel there, and this stuff adds up. Sometimes, it is avoidable, sometimes not, so the goal is always to get rid of as much weight as possible where one can, doing a cost/benefit analysis on each decision. I've sat with and learned from OE engineers who understand the systemic benefits of adding up "grains of sand" to improve the overall result. Adding weight is directionally incorrect and a wide range of properly fitting great wheel choices exists which allows avoiding this type of weight band-aid approach for no other real benefit.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:37 AM
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^Do you drive around with a spare tire, jack, tool kit etc?
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx View Post
^Do you drive around with a spare tire, jack, tool kit etc?
I understand your point, and yes I do because the cost/benefit suggests having them in case of a need which would otherwise strand me. However, one of the reasons we all have minispares (and for BMW, no spare, but RFTs) is weight reduction versus a full size spare. But, my trunk is empty other than that. Each item is a decision as to the value versus the penalty, and my point was that one can get great wheels which fit without needing to add more parts which don't add offsetting (no pun intended) value.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:47 AM
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If i was that concerned about weight like you are, especially over something so tiny such as spacers, (which no calibrated butt can feel), i would just shed the spare, jack, tool kit etc than...phone a friend when you call someone. Do you really do that much spirited driving to car about a few extra pounds honestly Im just curious? The C300 is a pig and by no means a fast/great handling car.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx View Post
If i was that concerned about weight like you are, especially over something so tiny such as spacers, (which no calibrated butt can feel), i would just shed the spare, jack, tool kit etc than...phone a friend when you call someone. Do you really do that much spirited driving to car about a few extra pounds honestly Im just curious? The C300 is a pig and by no means a fast/great handling car.
It's partially for driving and partially for philosophy about shedding excess. As I also learn from my marathon-running wife, weight from "muscle" is good; weight from (too much) "fat" is not, so get rid of what doesn't help you.

I won't give up my own emergency capability of a spare...personal decision, but I have spent some time and effort to improve the chassis performance of the C. While the C300 is not a "fast" car, I think "pig" overstates it, and I am ok with the powertrain capability. For me, handling is a more "elegant" capability and far outranks sheer acceleration. Clearly, the C Class is no sports car, but I've gone through changing out front and rear antisway bars, bushings, and researching tires before choosing Pilot Sport A/S Plus (another cost/benefit choice in my climate versus a summer only higher performance tire, I realize). But, now I am happier with the chassis response, which is quite good and surprisingly more neutral with the new bars, although it's not yet my ideal and I will probably consider the F30 when the next gen 3 series launches (as well as for a manual trans). I have been known to spend some extra time looping traffic circles and finding great on/off ramps just for the fun of it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmythegreek View Post
the big thing with spacers is fitment. MB wheels are hubcentric and seat a certain way, the hub takes alot of the pressure of the road, and most spacers are just rings and pressure the bolts directly, not the hub. If your racing or rough on ur car, u want quality lugs, and hubcentric spacers for MB. Im not a fan of them, I think ur better off with proper hubcentric wheels, unless ur trying to push ur stock wheels out a little, then its a different story, u have no choice
Thats what I want to do is bring out the rear stocks with a drop until I decide on wheels. The spacers I have are hubcentric so I guess ill b ok. As far as weight goes, these things must weigh just a few ounces each so I doubt ill feel a difference.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:21 AM
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I agree with shedding weight on a car if your really going to use it at the track, but the reality of it is, 98% of us here, our cars will never see any kind of track. With a gross weight of around 4541 lbs, im sorry that is a pig. Its a heavy car and has very loose steering and doesnt give much feedback to the driver as far as "feeling the road goes".
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx View Post
I agree with shedding weight on a car if your really going to use it at the track, but the reality of it is, 98% of us here, our cars will never see any kind of track. With a gross weight of around 4541 lbs, im sorry that is a pig. Its a heavy car and has very loose steering and doesnt give much feedback to the driver as far as "feeling the road goes".
Sounds like you might enjoy the Eibach antisway bar kit! MB steering is a thing unto itself, but I've accommodated and the bars improve steering response noticeably. But, BMW steering is still the standard. BTW, C300 curb weight is 3527, so not sure what you are including in "gross". An S550 curb weight is 4455.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:33 AM
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Curb Weight is the actual weight of the vehicle without any passengers or cargo in it. It’s the base weight that is used in subtraction to calculate the total weight of the vehicle with passengers and cargo.

Gross Vehicle Weight is the total weight of the loaded vehicle. This includes the vehicle itself and the cargo that is loaded within that vehicle.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:34 AM
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Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings are the ratings that are calculated by the manufacturers as to be the amount of weight that the vehicle will be when the vehicle itself is weighed filled with gasoline and loaded according to manufacturer’s specifications.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:41 AM
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LOL....you are right, thank you, and I realize that, having worked for one of the 3 domestic OEs. I did not know you meant the term literally, as most folks don't know the difference and sometimes use the terms loosely. But, most comparisons are made at curb weight, as gross weight is at full capability, which is not the operating mode of most vehicles most of the time. In fairness, gross weight comparisons somewhat penalize a vehicle for its capability rather than measuring how efficient it may/may not be at the more typical unladen.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:42 AM
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This sounds like a professor vs. student debate - you decide which is which...
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Scat01 View Post
This sounds like a professor vs. student debate - you decide which is which...
Just two car guys talking...helpful comments always welcome!
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:47 AM
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Well the street can go both ways... Curb weight is a completely empty vehicle with no cargo, passengers or gasoline etc...The car physically cannot drive like that. So Gross weight fits better IMO because your always going to have atleast 1 person, gasoline to make it go and you figure gasoline weighs roughly about 7 lbs...either way....this is about wheel spacers and there just isnt enough physical rotational weight to possibly notice the addition of a wheel spacer.

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Old 06-01-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx View Post
Well the street can go both ways... Curb weight is a completely empty vehicle with no cargo, passengers or gasoline etc...The car physically cannot drive like that. So Gross weight fits better IMO because your always going to have atleast 1 person, gasoline to make it go and you figure gasoline weights roughly about 7 lbs...either way....this is about wheel spacers and there just isnt enough physical rotational weight to possibly notice the addition of a wheel spacer.
OK...I'll leave it with your comment on spacers. I haven't driven with them, but I gave my case for making/not making unnecessary additions. Interesting chat.
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