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New DI Engines -- Excessive Carbon Buildup ??

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New DI Engines -- Excessive Carbon Buildup ??

 
Old 02-18-2012, 05:17 PM
  #101  
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The MBCA has a tech guy who writes a column in the magazine each month, seems fairly knowledgeable, I could write him an email and ask about this - maybe he has some contact at MB who has some technical information on this issue. Luckily my trusty EFI engined car will be in my hands at least another 2 years!
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nyca View Post
The MBCA has a tech guy who writes a column in the magazine each month, seems fairly knowledgeable, I could write him an email and ask about this - maybe he has some contact at MB who has some technical information on this issue. Luckily my trusty EFI engined car will be in my hands at least another 2 years!
Good idea! Please give it a shot!
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kevink2 View Post
... The compitition manual was written by Eng'g chief Mike Barrett, who later led the Monster Nissans in that wild and open Prototype class that included the unbeatable 2.2L Toyota turbo's managed by Dan Gurney, another great guy to talk with.
Actually that was Kas Kastner.

On the Webers, I think I spent as much $ on rejetting and reducing the choke size, vs the base cost of the carbs .... each changed part was quantity of 6 . But once set, they were perfect from idle to max rpms, other than persistant gas leaks at the "sprung" manifold seal.

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Old 02-19-2012, 10:56 AM
  #104  
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Gotta love the good old side draught Webers. A lot easier to tune & balance than the Dell'Orto "equivalent."

Reminds me of my days of modifying Alfa's
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kevink2 View Post
Actually that was Kas Kastner.

On the Webers, I think I spent as much $ on rejetting and reducing the choke size, vs the base cost of the carbs .... each changed part was quantity of 6 . But once set, they were perfect from idle to max rpms, other than persistant gas leaks at the "sprung" manifold seal.

.
...that's for sure! But even though I loved the power and the look....



... I finally converted to ITB's and everything changed...



You guys took me

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Old 02-20-2012, 12:22 AM
  #106  
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Question new 2011 or 2012???

I was really sold on a 2012 E class Wagon DI V6 with the increased horespower AND substantially better mileage and improved tranny.
Now, the DI seems scarey for a long term vehicle.

If you were shopping E class, would you buy a new 2012 or new 2011??

I had pretty much written off the 2011's but now this info has me wondering.

Appreciate any opinions.

Last edited by MinnBobber; 02-20-2012 at 11:35 PM. Reason: add
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:14 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by MinnBobber View Post
I was really sold on a 2012 E class DI V6 with the increased horespower AND substantially better mileage and improved tranny.
Now, the DI seems scarey for a long term vehicle.

If you were shopping E class, would you buy a new 2012 or new 2011??

I had pretty much written off the 2011's but now this info has me wondering.

Appreciate any opinions.
Wait for the 2013 Diesel model.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MinnBobber View Post
I was really sold on a 2012 E class DI V6 with the increased horespower AND substantially better mileage and improved tranny.
Now, the DI seems scarey for a long term vehicle.

If you were shopping E class, would you buy a new 2012 or new 2011??

I had pretty much written off the 2011's but now this info has me wondering.

Appreciate any opinions.
Call Mercedes Benz Customer Support Hotline (1-800-367-6372) and demand (REAL TECHNICAL) answers from them on how they either addressed the carbon build-up problems inherited in all Direct Injected engines, or better yet, how they SOLVED it!

If you learn something, please post it here!... but I remain pessimistic.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:42 PM
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2013??

Originally Posted by RLE View Post
Wait for the 2013 Diesel model.
RLE,
do you think (know?) if there will be a 2013 E WAGON diesel??
That would be the ultimate missle for me. Except, posts about MB diesels with bad fuel/water ingestion / big non-warranty repairs have me concerned about going to a diesel. Here in the US, our quality of fuel regarding contamination can be suspect.
Clean fuel seems much more important in a diesel.

Comments??

Last edited by MinnBobber; 02-20-2012 at 09:04 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:34 PM
  #110  
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Any modern diesel running a >2000bar injection system with amplifier injectors requires sqeaky clean uncontaminated fuel. Benz sells a bucket full of diesels in Europe & they are pretty well protected but some care is required.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnBobber View Post
RLE,
do you think (know?) if there will be a 2013 E WAGON diesel??
That would be the ultimate missle for me. Except, posts about MB diesels with bad fuel/water ingestion / big non-warranty repairs have me concerned about going to a diesel. Here in the US, our quality of fuel regarding contamination can be suspect.
Clean fuel seems much more important in a diesel.

Comments??
I have no idea if a wagon version will be sold here or not. I would think the US market wouldn't justify certifying that model. What I DO know is that a friend is taking factory delivery of a 2013 E diesel in September or thereabouts. Whether it will be the new 3.5 V-6 or the 4-cylinder (bah!) is unknown to me.

A friend has been driving his 2007 E Bluetec since new with no fuel system problems of any kind. 36-37 mpg hwy is pretty normal.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:23 PM
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After reading this entire thread, what can we actually do. Does running her hard help, or do we need to tear the engine apart?
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Old 02-21-2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by acela11 View Post
After reading this entire thread, what can we actually do. Does running her hard help, or do we need to tear the engine apart?
Don't buy one, and take the wait and see approach.

Buy one and sell it off early

Buy one and keep your fingers crossed.

I'm (foolishly?) opting for #3. I keep cars for 10 years or more so my guess is that either there won't be an issue or I'll be removing the heads every few years. If there is a problem, I'm not expecting MB to stand behind addressing it with the current engines...but rather redesign new ones and hope they didn't p*ss off too many owners. Also, I don't know if MB has extendend warranties but this might be the first time I purchase one if it would cover this issue once it gets bad enough...
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:11 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by acela11 View Post
After reading this entire thread, what can we actually do. Does running her hard help, or do we need to tear the engine apart?
Running her hard will have no effect on the carbon issue like it once did because the gasoline never comes into contact with the valves any longer. If anything it will only produce more carbon as pushing the engine increases internal pressures and thus forces more oil through the valve guide seal.

Originally Posted by 2012c350 View Post
1) Don't buy one, and take the wait and see approach.

2) Buy one and sell it off early

3) Buy one and keep your fingers crossed.

4) Call and ask questions... over and over if need be until one of us gets a straight answer!

I'm (foolishly?) opting for #3. I keep cars for 10 years or more so my guess is that either there won't be an issue or I'll be removing the heads every few years. If there is a problem, I'm not expecting MB to stand behind addressing it with the current engines...but rather redesign new ones and hope they didn't p*ss off too many owners. Also, I don't know if MB has extendend warranties but this might be the first time I purchase one if it would cover this issue once it gets bad enough...
I would at least try #4 first... it couldn't hurt!
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:00 PM
  #115  
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One thing MB may have done with the DGI system is angle the injector so that it washes the opened intake valve.

Bosch FSI Video

Pic of Ford Eco-Boost Combustion Chamber

.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:43 PM
  #116  
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Good try, but no cigar!

Originally Posted by kevink2 View Post
One thing MB may have done with the DGI system is angle the injector so that it washes the opened intake valve.

Bosch FSI Video

Pic of Ford Eco-Boost Combustion Chamber

.
I know how you feel, it's nice to believe that there must be something, something that they did to help eliminate this issue, but the Bosch video is not an accurate rendition of the Mercedes DI system, nor is the wiki post. Besides, in both cases the down stroke of the piston vortex's and mixes the pulled in oxygen as the valves open along with the fuel. In other words, the injected fuel only partially hits the open valves as the majority is directed and pulled down into the cylinder during the intake stroke of the piston... thus missing the valves.... sorry but no cigar!

PS: Remember this is not a CIS system. In that case it might have worked!
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:53 AM
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"One thing MB may have done .... "

I did say may ...

I thought with ~2000 psi injector pressure, some part of the cone would be sufficent to reduce build-up, IF MB used this angled injection.

Mabe some day they will say something, but if Glyn can't find out, looks doubtful.

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Old 02-22-2012, 12:12 PM
  #118  
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Good point, but that would mean that the VW and Audi's that do incorporate the Bosch system would be cleaned and have no issues ... yet their DI appears to be the worst offender thus far... I guess we'll have to wait and see if the new MB DI engines develop issues to find out... too bad.

Last edited by MBRedux; 02-22-2012 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:20 PM
  #119  
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I think we should stop beating this drum until we have some real facts.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
I think we should stop beating this drum until we have some real facts.
I fully agree, everything is speculative at this point. However in light of the fact that Mercedes has refused to release any "real facts" on this issue, and probably never will, only hastens my resolve to seek the truth, to encourage others who may be impacted to do the same. I see no real harm (other than the fear that further discussion may impact sales) to discusses this issue until someone is able to extract these "real facts", since you said at first you would but have now rescinded for some strange reason.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:17 AM
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No strange reason. My heritage company asked me to stay out of it. I obliged.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
No strange reason. My heritage company asked me to stay out of it. I obliged.

That's highly suspicious unto itself!
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:57 PM
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You really are a conspiracy theorist. Better watch your mail for a bomb. You are asking all the wrong questions.
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Old 02-23-2012, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
No strange reason. My heritage company asked me to stay out of it. I obliged.
Retired?

Ned Nosy

.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:03 PM
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Yes! - still consulting.
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