silversx

so after i put on the HR super sports and my rims/tires.. i had a weird pull even after an alignment.. car drifts to the right when i let go of the wheel.. and it seems to easier to the right and more effort needed to turn to the left

im no noob to alignment and tuning.. so i thought ok caster is off and uneven causing the car to pull.. but dam my alignment guy put it on the rack and showed me it was 11.2 left 11.0 right.. camber was even and toe dialed perfect..

but still had this drift.. i bought some adjustable bolts from dealer.. had another alignment shop put it on.. on another machine.. they didn't seem like they knew wtf to do with the bolts.. but they got it on.. everything perfectly dialed according to their machine..

car still drifts..

today i said **** it.. let me take it to the dealer and see what they find.. ran into the alignment guy as i was dropping of the car and told him what my problem and yada yada.. he was like.. oh.. ok.. let me try..

picked up the car just now.. no more drift.. checked out spec sheet.. dayam!!!!!! there are adjustments and measurements i never heard of..

pressed toe? setback? .. setback was what was making me drift.. caused by uneven caster.. which he fixed..

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm#Set%20Back

cost? $169... not to mention the money wasted on the other 2 alignments that didn't wtf is what... ouch.. but im pretty **** about my alignments..

scottsc350

I had the dealer do my alignment too. I have eibach springs and they installed the camber bolts on mine as well. I had it done at the same time my service b was being completed. It also helped that I get a dealer discount, since my mother-in-law works there. Mine wasn't pulling like yours was, but it was off a bit.

agedog2gt

Hey bro, thanks for the info. actually need an alignment right now and am really debating on taking her to a MB dealer to have it done after reading your story. Take it easy

splinter

Received your PMs. Kindly forgive my late (heretofore nonexistent) follow-up reply.
Some wacky RF “before correction” toe/camber/’setback’ you’ve now squared away.

I use a jerry-rigged laser, string, and digital protractor method to ballpark suspension tweaks at home before driving onto a friend’s sophisticated Hunter machine.
Although they’re often close, there’s no substitute for modern equipment.

Yours illustrates yet another instance of a competent and dedicated technician making all the difference. A $169 properly invested imho.

Carsy

Silversx, Thanks for the alignment figures.

I see your Toe figures are in degrees & minutes.

Does any know why my figures on my sheet are in millimeters?.

Is there a conversion figure for 205 55 16 tyres?

Thanks.

silversx

toe should always be in degrees.. looking at your car from above like a bird.. it's the degree it turns inward or outward..

i can't understand how that can be measured in mm... how can you measure angle with distances measurement... that sounds weird.. maybe it's the type of machine..

silversx

splinter.. you're right about a competent tech.. this guy told me the previous guy that installed the adjustable bolts had no idea what he was doing.. he messed up the bolts so he tossed it all out.. used new bolts to do my alignment..

i think if it's just adjustments with stock parts.. regular shop may be fine.. but if you need corrections based on very specific parts such as bolts in our case.. it's best to have some one that knows wtf is what..

Carsy

As usual Google comes to the rescue !!

'Toe is measured as a distance or as an angle. When measuring toe as a distance, it
is found by measuring the difference between the center of the front of the tire and the
center of the rear of the tire at spindle height. The difference between the distances
is Total Toe.
When measured as an angle, the center line of the vehicle is zero degrees (0o, 0.00 o,
or 0o 00') and the angle of a line drawn through the center of the tire and wheel, as
viewed from the top, is the Toe angle for the individual wheel.'

Here is the link :- http://maxima.theowensfamily.com/tsb/NTB91-049.pdf

In the Maxima's case 1mm equals about 6 minutes.

So it seems that alignment machines measure either or both mm & degrees.

kevink2

Both Total and Individual Toe-(in) can be expressed in degrees ( decimal or deg'-min") , or mm. If mm, they use a standard tire OD, not the actual one.

I like to take the degrees, and use the tangent x [actual OD] to visualise the toe-in using inches ("). This is based on when I set my own toe-in fro my tracked cars. All the following is discussed in inches (") :

In this case, total front toe-in was .13" at tire OD, vs target of 0.0" to .14" at tire. Not sure why they called it out of spec, as it looks like in tolerance range. But it's outside my usual spec of 0.0" to .03" total toe-in. Final reading was .013" at tire od.

Other major correction was camber, where previous shop was trying to create camber thrust ... the wrong way to tackle steering pull problems.

The "setback" is not a direct adjustment. It is the result of adjusting camver and/or castor.

.

kevink2

Silversc, what year and model is your car? Spec's are different for each one.


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.

silversx

2012

splinter

+1
Doing so removes the variable of tire OD from the measurements.

Apologies to kevink2…a decent cheat sheet since I’m not an engineer:

Carsy

Good one. Thanks Splinter. JC