I NEVER said that, read my post again.

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Listen jerk ... woops that's me.

The above can be clearly seen in pics of the typical H&R Spring options:

http://www.hrsprings.com/products/springs/

Sport Springs, Black

The standing springs have mostly a wide coil spacing, with a few close ones at the bottom. These are the desireable type c springs described above.

The ones ready to roll on the table also have mostly widely spaced active coils. All the very close coils to the left will loose their gaps when installed in the car, and are considered just like a spacer made of inactive coils.

Super Sport Springs, Blue

The standing ones have about an equal number of close and wide spaced coils ( type a above ) and will have a sharp 2X rate increase at moderately high compressive loads. The coils flat on the table appear to be the same way. "These high tech progressive springs retain superior ride comfort" ... well that's debatable !

Race Springs, Red

These are somewhat unusual, in that they are very high rate springs that don't require a coilover set-up, but do require race shocks like koni sports. The coil spacing is constant, for a linear constant rate.

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Cutting right to the point and through all the BS in this thread. You want stock comfort? Stay stock. Aftermarket springs are going to diminish ride quality period. Shorter travel shocks arent going to do **** to help in this area either. Coilovers would be the best option for you, but you're still gonna feel the bumps more than stock.

PS if you think the SuperSports are too harsh, keep it stock. Theses springs are barely worse than the stock sport suspension. Im willing to bet the Spring rates are probably the same, just a shorter spring.

 

you said "some people report the ride better than stock", which is why I assume that this would mean more comfort.... didn't mean to upset you, sorry....

Well, I'll wait till knightmare69 gets his and then possibly based off his results I will add those to my h&R ss springs if it ends up being a good combo

 

not with me...lovin the ride with my H&R SS......

 

1) what size wheels ? 19s right now (have 5 sets 18s,19s)
2) did you change shocks from oem ? No cant I have dynamic handling
3) did you change shocks, if yes was it before, during, or after spring install ? N/A
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed ? 10500
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions ? rear
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions ? Front stock rear 5mm
7) dealer installed or who else ? self installed I part own a shop
8) did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stops on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield ) ? No, didnt need to fit perfect
9) at final assembly, was the car put in an "as driven" condition when the rear lower shock mounts were torqued ? Yes. All fasteners were torqued to MB spec



On your custom springs, did you go linear, were the oem's linear? OEMs were linear, the SS were dual rate coils, the customs are linear with one dual rate turn 2/3 of the way up
When you installed the SS's, did you get most of the full drop right away? Yes, they settled another 25% in 2k miles
With the SS's, do you think the car sat without coil binding the closely spaced coils? Initial install they were almost touching, the plastic outside barrier was slightly touching in spots but there was space. after settling the dual rate section is touching limiting travel

With dual rate springs like these, you are supposed to ride w/o coil bind in the closely spaced coils, for a slightly stiffer ride with all coils "active", vs oem rate. Yup, thats not the case w the SS, I did another install on a w204 last year and his settled and hes riding touching. I think best install would be to take sports and cut a half coil off them, they have proper spacing and a much better ride when settled.

 

Damn I like your reasoning here... I shoulda just kept my normal springs or bought sport springs instead of super sport, and then just cut a coil....

I wonder if H&R actually planned for coils to touch or if this is a defect and you I can return them for credit towards coils under warranty

PS- do you have to remove your wheels to see if coils are touching or can you just look from under your car if it is on a lift?

 

Sorry I barked, but you still misquoted me here! You snipped out 8 words in a paragraph, then took it out of context:

some people report the ride better than stock ...... Better meaning it gave them the stiffer ride needed for cornering and braking, but delivered in a strait forward way ... not dual rate springs, bump stop worries, etc.


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Great useful info from someone who knows what he's talking about!

I'd conclude that most of the cars, esp the C350's, with H&R SS's installed are just riding on the stiff coils, like you experienced. This would be especially true for the C350, that uses the same SS spring as the C300. It also reflects a design error on H&R's part.

Was the other W204 you worked on a C350 like yours?

I also like the idea of cutting a coil on the H&R sport springs. Not a problem if the spring end fits are suitable for a cut, and it's done carefully.

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I had several long talks with John, the H&R Tech Rep in Washington state. Having had a background in spring design as a consultant, it became clear that John's knowledge of the spring behaviour was limited to what is stated on the website.

John's position is that if it is sold by H&R (and designed in Germany) the product is good and as advertised. Also, he said complaints about this application were rare if any. When I brought up the point that, based on jimmythegreek's findings, the C350 rested on the stiff spring condition, and not on the soft condition, he went back to repeating his position.

He had initially prommised to email me pic's of these SS springs for MB cars, but was later told he could not do that. So, if anyone has pic's of the SS springs, or pics of the oem springs, both not installed, please post them.

Also, if you find that you don't like the springs because they don't ride as advertised, they would consider a refund on the springs only.

http://www.hrsprings.com/products/springs/


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why do you think the c350 sits harder on the coils than the c300?

thought the cars had the same suspension and shocks originally...?

 

Wow, I cannot express how BAD of an idea it is to cut coils. Springs are designed in a specific manner to work a certain way, there is a reason we pay the costs we do for what seems like a simple part.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving money when possible, ****, I've even got replica rear window and trunk spoilers, but those are exactly what it is, spoilers that serve no function and therefore corners can be cut (no pun intended) but now you guys are talking about cutting a coil off the H&R and I am just disappointed.

See now, here's where one COULD argue H&R's design. As he stated they were designed in Germany so it's very possible the springs were designed based off the road conditions there and not more general for international applications. I also think that it's possible that complaints are rare because most ppl probably don't know if their springs are riding the way they should be.

HOWEVER, lets be clear here, we are riding aftermarket springs on STOCK Shocks. I too am guilty of this and followed the boards incomplete feedback on this combo which is why I rethought my position and decided to order the bilstein shocks before launching complaints about the bad design of H&R springs. Until my bilsteins arrive and are installed, I hold my tongue on their true performance.

 

lol cutting spring??? we're talking about Mercedes not 67 Chevy's.

 

Nor are we Stanceworks

 

Right, and if you don't understand the basics of intuitive spring design, don't do it. I liked Jimmy's concept and expressed conditional agreement with him (I've done it several times). But, that was not a global recommendation for all. I always say if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it!

get a grip.

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the 350 is a bigger engine ....

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The 350 has larger displacement. Doesnt mean its heavier, thing called bore and stroke.

 

Wound up much?

 

Well yes and no, you're both correct to a certain point. Logic would dictate that the 350 (V8) is heavier than the 300 (V6). However, with new technology it is possible the weight gains from the extra 2 cylinders is minimal in affecting the weight balance of the car.

 

You would be right except the c350 is a 3.5 24V6

 

Ah, I stand corrected then.

 

Actually it does mean it's heavier in the following applicable case, and it includes a thing called crankshaft.

As I recall the difference between the C350 and C300 is the stroke. Going back to when the engines were similar and both port fuel injected:

1) the extra stroke requires a taller block = more weight

2a) the thing called crankshaft needs to be much bigger at the mains for the higher torque = more weight

2b) crankshaft also must have more offset to the rod bearings to create the extra stroke = more weight

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The difference is both bore and stroke.

C300-Bore is 88 mm and stroke is 82 mm.
C350-Bore is 92.6 mm and stroke is 86 mm.

Your above points are BS unless you can prove them.

 

Both engines fall under the 272 group. The larger bore makes little difference to comments 1 and 2 above. The crankshaft is the main reason for more weight. You're comments are useless unless you can explain fault in what I said.

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I also agree weight difference is minimal which makes me think it's not a c350 vs c300 thing

c350 weight: 3,615 pounds
c300 weight: 3,527 pounds

88 extra Pounds enough to compress coils into each other?