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CAR TOO BOUNCY! H&R SS Springs & 5mm pads on Stock 18" AMG Wheels & Nitto Motivo Tire
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C350
Agreed - those posts are exactly the reason I sent the Sports back and ordered the Super Sports.
NOTICE TO ANYONE ELSE ON THE FENCE ABOUT THIS: Don't do it - your car will ride like ***. Go with a mild drop or coilovers. The people saying it's as good as stock are high.
Senior Member
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2010 C300
the ride also depends on where you're from also. I recall reading something about you driving on la roads and there's no way it is going to ride like stock on our roads. however, I notice most highways on the east coast are much smoother than here so there probably wont be much of a difference
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C350
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
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'08 Mercedes C300
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Another round of ICE
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LOADED 08' C350 & 14' GLK-350 Diamond White (P1, MM, AMG Pkg, Ln Trkng, Htd Sts, Keylss Go)
Agreed - those posts are exactly the reason I sent the Sports back and ordered the Super Sports.
NOTICE TO ANYONE ELSE ON THE FENCE ABOUT THIS: Don't do it - your car will ride like ***. Go with a mild drop or coilovers. The people saying it's as good as stock are high.
NOTICE TO ANYONE ELSE ON THE FENCE ABOUT THIS: Don't do it - your car will ride like ***. Go with a mild drop or coilovers. The people saying it's as good as stock are high.
would have never done it if i didn't hear so many "go with the Super Sport!!! You won't regret it!!" type responses...
figured coil overs would only give better performance and not really much more comfort....
whatever. I always get it right in the end... just another setback/learning experience
Last edited by rb23lb; Jun 29, 2012 at 06:07 PM.
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2008 Mercedes C300
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Originally Posted by kevink2 (Black)
Reply by rb23lb (Red)
Reply2 by kevink2 (Blue)
I think the problem is either:
1) running out of downward shock travel, or
How do I run out of downward shock travel if I am doing what others did and using SS on stock shocks? Do you mean that the installation was botched and this is not normal?
You CAN run out of downward shock travel, as oem shocks have the total travel about centered on the installed shock. When you install low-rider/drop-springs, the oem shock is now centered about 1.5" lower than before, taking up some/most of the downward motion capacity oft the oem shock. Bilsteins are designed to allow 30mm lower ride height, and are made for drop-springs.
2) riding too hard on the bump stops.
How do I not "ride hard"? Do you mean put back the 13mm instead of the 8mm?
The 13mm helps a bit. You ride hard on the rubber stops if they are compressed during normal running, instead of having the normal gap that delays contact until the springs are compressed about an inch or so.
Both have been mentioned before by others, I recall. Adding spacers would help both problems, sacraficing some drop but keeping the very stiff springs.
How do "spacers" sacrafice drop? Don't spacers just widen the wheel base? I was thinking about adding 5mm spacers to the rear just so they sit more flush...
My bad. By spacers, I meant the upper contoured cushion that the spring is seated into (and not wheel spacers). These come in various thicknesses, and by increasing the thickness, you are effectively "lifting" the car a bit, based on the added thickness.
Also, check with H&R if they have a suggested method of shortening (cutting) the bump cushions. They may be mounted on the body, or on top of the struts. Before you dropped it, there was a gap to these rubber, cylindrical cushions during normal ride. But if you rode over a dip or mild pothole, these cushions had a soft initial spring rate to work with the springs (in parallel) to absorb the bump.
I watched my friend put the new REAR H&R spring right back into the new bump stop 5mm cushion, right where the old one was... What do you mean, before it was dropped, there was a "gap"???
Actually, it would be impossible to see this gap, since the bump cushion is located on the rear shock shaft, which is covered by the upper sleeve of the shock. See related parts in this link, and bumper #2 is inside of shield #3.
>> http://www.mercedespartscenter.com/p...iagram=5777384
Same pic of front suspension (bump cusion also not visible) :
>> http://www.mercedespartscenter.com/p...iagram=5777184
Official DIY install thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...g-springs.html
H&R Spring Listings for C300, C350 (same sets)
>> http://www.hrsprings.com/scripts/app...ind3&MakeID=25
A quick way to see how close you are to overloading these bump cushings due to loss of upward wheel motion:
1) make four stacks of three or four 1"x6" x 10" boards.
2) use a floor jack to place each stack under each wheel
3) using a floor jack and a 2X4" x 8" pine board, gently lift under the lower control arms as close to the ball joint(s) as possible. If you can't get much higher than normal ride height before it lifts at another wheel, then you are crushing the bump cushions too soon.
.
Reply by rb23lb (Red)
Reply2 by kevink2 (Blue)
I think the problem is either:
1) running out of downward shock travel, or
How do I run out of downward shock travel if I am doing what others did and using SS on stock shocks? Do you mean that the installation was botched and this is not normal?
You CAN run out of downward shock travel, as oem shocks have the total travel about centered on the installed shock. When you install low-rider/drop-springs, the oem shock is now centered about 1.5" lower than before, taking up some/most of the downward motion capacity oft the oem shock. Bilsteins are designed to allow 30mm lower ride height, and are made for drop-springs.
2) riding too hard on the bump stops.
How do I not "ride hard"? Do you mean put back the 13mm instead of the 8mm?
The 13mm helps a bit. You ride hard on the rubber stops if they are compressed during normal running, instead of having the normal gap that delays contact until the springs are compressed about an inch or so.
Both have been mentioned before by others, I recall. Adding spacers would help both problems, sacraficing some drop but keeping the very stiff springs.
How do "spacers" sacrafice drop? Don't spacers just widen the wheel base? I was thinking about adding 5mm spacers to the rear just so they sit more flush...
My bad. By spacers, I meant the upper contoured cushion that the spring is seated into (and not wheel spacers). These come in various thicknesses, and by increasing the thickness, you are effectively "lifting" the car a bit, based on the added thickness.
Also, check with H&R if they have a suggested method of shortening (cutting) the bump cushions. They may be mounted on the body, or on top of the struts. Before you dropped it, there was a gap to these rubber, cylindrical cushions during normal ride. But if you rode over a dip or mild pothole, these cushions had a soft initial spring rate to work with the springs (in parallel) to absorb the bump.
I watched my friend put the new REAR H&R spring right back into the new bump stop 5mm cushion, right where the old one was... What do you mean, before it was dropped, there was a "gap"???
Actually, it would be impossible to see this gap, since the bump cushion is located on the rear shock shaft, which is covered by the upper sleeve of the shock. See related parts in this link, and bumper #2 is inside of shield #3.
>> http://www.mercedespartscenter.com/p...iagram=5777384
Same pic of front suspension (bump cusion also not visible) :
>> http://www.mercedespartscenter.com/p...iagram=5777184
Official DIY install thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...g-springs.html
H&R Spring Listings for C300, C350 (same sets)
>> http://www.hrsprings.com/scripts/app...ind3&MakeID=25
A quick way to see how close you are to overloading these bump cushings due to loss of upward wheel motion:
1) make four stacks of three or four 1"x6" x 10" boards.
2) use a floor jack to place each stack under each wheel
3) using a floor jack and a 2X4" x 8" pine board, gently lift under the lower control arms as close to the ball joint(s) as possible. If you can't get much higher than normal ride height before it lifts at another wheel, then you are crushing the bump cushions too soon.
.
Last edited by kevink2; Jun 30, 2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Why do you diagnose this if he is complaining about ride harshness on relatively consistent surfaces (highways) without anything close to full jounce/rebound? Don't we need a root cause consistent with minimal suspension deflection? I think it seems more likely spring rate and tire sidewall stiffness are primary suspects.
I also think the installer did not let the suspension settle in the laden condition before torqueing rubber-bushed pivots, locking in torsional preload.
All this with dual rate springs (aka progressive), with a near oem rate before they bind into a much stiffer spring. Eibach has a nice video about sport drop vs super drop springs, similar to the H&R spring options:
http://performancesuspension.eibach....t_vs_sportline
.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,986
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From: SEATTLE WASHINGTON USA
'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
...How do "spacers" sacrafice drop? Don't spacers just widen the wheel base? I was thinking about adding 5mm spacers to the rear just so they sit more flush.....
We are having terminology problems here.
Spacers are mounted on the hub to widen the track which is the distance between the rear tire centers.
The rubber pads atop the rear springs are spring pads, not spacers.
The distance between the front and rear wheel centers is the wheelbase.
We are having terminology problems here.
Spacers are mounted on the hub to widen the track which is the distance between the rear tire centers.
The rubber pads atop the rear springs are spring pads, not spacers.
The distance between the front and rear wheel centers is the wheelbase.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,229
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From: Toronto
2022 E53 AMG
I have had springs installed with my of my cars. The last was my Mazda 6 and with many people lowering their cars I decided what I really wanted when it came to drive control and appearance.
That being said, I know that in the industry H&R springs are one of the lowest drop springs on the market for all cars. If you want to lower a car without pushing the limits of the stock components I would normally go with eibach
I did this for my 6 where I was on eibach pro kit and Koni yellow controlled dampers.
It seems that H&R is not a good fit for our cars (MB) ... who is running a eibach setup with stock shocks?
I know that in my 2012 C350 the dampers are self adjusting so I was wondering if putting on lower springs with cause any undue stress to the system?
I would like my ride to be lower as it does not look as low as others C350 that I have seen. :-(
As for ride comfort...you will have less shock travel and it will be a harder ride but you may only feel this harder ride when you hit surface bumps on the road.
If you are bouncing, you need to do an outside bounce test.
Stand outside your car, and bounce on it. See if it absorbs or if it continues to keep going. If after you bounce on it and it levels out after 2 returns then your suspension is fine.
All in all H&R are softer springs in the industry but also the lowest in the industry.
Eibach is by far a better quality spring with one of the best spring rates in the industry.
That being said, I know that in the industry H&R springs are one of the lowest drop springs on the market for all cars. If you want to lower a car without pushing the limits of the stock components I would normally go with eibach
I did this for my 6 where I was on eibach pro kit and Koni yellow controlled dampers.
It seems that H&R is not a good fit for our cars (MB) ... who is running a eibach setup with stock shocks?
I know that in my 2012 C350 the dampers are self adjusting so I was wondering if putting on lower springs with cause any undue stress to the system?
I would like my ride to be lower as it does not look as low as others C350 that I have seen. :-(
As for ride comfort...you will have less shock travel and it will be a harder ride but you may only feel this harder ride when you hit surface bumps on the road.
If you are bouncing, you need to do an outside bounce test.
Stand outside your car, and bounce on it. See if it absorbs or if it continues to keep going. If after you bounce on it and it levels out after 2 returns then your suspension is fine.
All in all H&R are softer springs in the industry but also the lowest in the industry.
Eibach is by far a better quality spring with one of the best spring rates in the industry.
Last edited by Cosworth2000; Jul 1, 2012 at 08:01 AM.
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Good to hear. A few Q's:
1) what's your full name and current place of residence <---- just a joke
1) what size wheels/tires
2) did you change shocks from oem
3) did you change shocks well before, during, or well after spring install
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed.
4) if oem shocks, did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stop bushings on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield )
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions
Just need to find out what a happy H&R SS rider had done. Thanx for your reply.
Also, at 424 posts, you and others on this thread (with even less posts) are considered "newbies", and need to clarify your situation so others know your point of reference:
______________ *** All Members, New and some Old *** _______________
please click on User CP at the top left of page, just below the thread title. Then add the following to either Profile and/or Signature , selecting buttons on the left side of that page:
year, model, if it's a diesel, Sport or Lux, 4MATIC or RWD, Location (city & state), and non-US country if applicable.
This helps others respond to issues, like tires, spring options, part sales, etc. Thanx
.
1) what's your full name and current place of residence <---- just a joke
1) what size wheels/tires
2) did you change shocks from oem
3) did you change shocks well before, during, or well after spring install
4) how many miles on odo when SS springs installed.
4) if oem shocks, did you modify/cut the rubber bump-stop bushings on the shocks ( hidden by front bellows and rear outer dust shield )
5) did you change thickness of front or rear spring top cushions
6) what installed thicknesses of F&R cushions
Just need to find out what a happy H&R SS rider had done. Thanx for your reply.
Also, at 424 posts, you and others on this thread (with even less posts) are considered "newbies", and need to clarify your situation so others know your point of reference:
______________ *** All Members, New and some Old *** _______________
please click on User CP at the top left of page, just below the thread title. Then add the following to either Profile and/or Signature , selecting buttons on the left side of that page:
year, model, if it's a diesel, Sport or Lux, 4MATIC or RWD, Location (city & state), and non-US country if applicable.
This helps others respond to issues, like tires, spring options, part sales, etc. Thanx
.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 534
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From: NJ
2008 C350 Sport
[QUOTE=ElJayBird;5262234]Honestly, I was blessed (cursed?) with an unreasonably sarcastic sense of humor...it doesn't always translate well in text.
...or in person for that matter.[/QUOTE
Maybe so, but he is a little turd, a majority of his posts are some sort of negative knock on someone...so you were right...
...or in person for that matter.[/QUOTE
Maybe so, but he is a little turd, a majority of his posts are some sort of negative knock on someone...so you were right...
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
[quote=Scat01;5263206]
Scat01: This is unacceptable language. Please do not repeat using derogatory names, no matter what you think of another poster. Further use of name calling will require an escalated response.
Honestly, I was blessed (cursed?) with an unreasonably sarcastic sense of humor...it doesn't always translate well in text.
...or in person for that matter.[/QUOTE
Maybe so, but he is a little turd, a majority of his posts are some sort of negative knock on someone...so you were right...
...or in person for that matter.[/QUOTE
Maybe so, but he is a little turd, a majority of his posts are some sort of negative knock on someone...so you were right...
Last edited by Sportstick; Jun 30, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
This is the drop-spring install details for a Mazdaspeed6, which has a similar strut front and remote shock rear suspension, including bump stops.
If the H&R Super Sport springs were not installed with extra travel shocks or modified bump stops, a nasty ride as described by the OP will follow.
http://forum.mazda6club.com/speed6-s...ml#post2838608
.
If the H&R Super Sport springs were not installed with extra travel shocks or modified bump stops, a nasty ride as described by the OP will follow.
http://forum.mazda6club.com/speed6-s...ml#post2838608
.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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Posts: 1,331
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Thread Starter
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LOADED 08' C350 & 14' GLK-350 Diamond White (P1, MM, AMG Pkg, Ln Trkng, Htd Sts, Keylss Go)
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...g-springs.html
Nowhere did this "trusted" DIY mention that you need to "cut any bump stops"
For all of you scores and scores of people that installed the H&R super sport springs.... Did you ALL cut your bump stops????
If this is really what needs to be done to fix the problem and everybody else did it... Then I will just do this instead of buying coil overs or new shocks....
Can anybody please verify or weigh in if the majority of people actually did cut their bump stops?? In all the threads I read, nowhere did I find anybody talking about this....
