Horrible mileage after oil change

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Oct 28, 2012 | 07:48 PM

#51

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink2

Status update?

.

Haven't gone to the dealer yet, will be going tomorrow. I'm going to ask them if they carry the Castrol Edge, if not I'll get some and then ask them for the Service A.

I thought 300 was a complete rip off, but it turns out that they are even worse in other countries. I'll just suck it up and call it a day.

Thanks for all your help, I'll report if my mileage improves. Also, will I have a problem using the 0w-30 during summer? It won't get hotter than 40 Celsius in the summer, which is 104 Fahrenheit.

Oct 29, 2012 | 07:30 AM

#52

Big Daddy

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From: Australia

C220 CDI SLK 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

What in heavens name do two mechanics do servicing a C Class? It's a one man job. There is very little to do even at a B service.

Got to pay for their expensive coffee machines in the customer service loung somehow. Also their loaners tend to cop a horrible thrashing which also has to be paid for

Oct 29, 2012 | 12:33 PM

#53

kevink2

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

You will not find it at the dealer's, need to bring it in. If you look in the latest owner's manual at the oil selection chart based on temperatures, you will find that 0W30 and 0W40 have the same upper range. The 08 C300 4MATIC has had the Castrol for 35K miles, and it boosted mpg's vs M1 0W40, and the car doesn't burn a drop of oil in ~7K oil changes. We see peaks of 100F, but usual max is 96F.

.

Last edited by kevink2; Oct 29, 2012 at 12:38 PM.

Oct 29, 2012 | 12:43 PM

#54

kevink2

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

.... Very few vehicles are starting at -35 deg.....

The OP's car starts at -40C

@OP "Weather hasn't really changed since I got the oil change, but it'll get really damn cold soon. Like -40 (Celsius) around here. "

Perhaps an oil preheater?

.

Last edited by kevink2; Oct 29, 2012 at 12:47 PM.

Oct 29, 2012 | 01:01 PM

#55

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink2

The OP's car starts at -40C

@OP "Weather hasn't really changed since I got the oil change, but it'll get really damn cold soon. Like -40 (Celsius) around here. "

Perhaps an oil preheater?

.

Don't worry, the car will stay plugged every night. I don't think it'll ever actually start at -35.

I talked to the dealer today, and they quoted me 350 for the Service A, which is 50 more than what they told me last week

I don't even want to do an oil change anymore at the dealer anymore, they won't get a dime from me. I talked to a independent European service shop today, and they told me that they have 229.5 oil, and not 229.51. They use Motul, I think I'm gonna go there instead. I forgot to ask for the price, but I doubt they're gonna charge 80 bucks for labor like MB for a freaking oil change.

Oct 29, 2012 | 03:43 PM

#56

Carsy

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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia

2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan

Careful ,can't see Motul here :-

MB sheet 229.5 approved oils; "MB Longlife Service Oils" for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving, first oils introduced summer 2002. ACEA A3 B4. For gas engines of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters). 229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils.
AGIP Formula LL DC 5W-30 (I) Aral SuperTronic G 0W-30 (D) Castrol DCO TOPUP 0W-30 (D) Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30 (USA) Elf Excellium 229.5 5W-30 (F) FormulaShell Ultra AB 5W-30 (GB) Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL MB 5W-30 (D) Labo MB 229.5 5W-30 (F) Liqui Moly Longtime High Tech 5W-30 (D) Mobil 1 SuperSyn European Car Formula 0W-40 (USA) Mobil 1 Turbodiesel 0W-40 Mobil SHC Formula MB 5W-30 Motorex Profil M-XL 5W-30 (CH) OMV full syn MB 5W-30 (A) Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA) Premium Synthetik Motorenöl 5W-30 (DaimlerChrysler, D) Quaker State European Formula Ultra 5W-30 (USA) Shell Helix Ultra AB 5W-30 (Mercedes-Benz) (GB) Shell Helix Ultra DC 229.5 (GB) Total Quartz 229.5 5W-30 (F) Valvoline SynPower MB 5W-30 (NL) Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 Valvoline SynPower 20W-50.

Don't forget to use the approved filter.I buy mine 10 at a time from MB .

Oct 29, 2012 | 05:48 PM

#57

Glyn M Ruck

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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa

late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink2

The OP's car starts at -40C

@OP "Weather hasn't really changed since I got the oil change, but it'll get really damn cold soon. Like -40 (Celsius) around here. "

Perhaps an oil preheater?

.

Ouch ~ He must use a block heater. I started a C200 in Harbin NE China a few years back at -50C outdoors. The car was not as cold as that but it sounded awful until it warmed up.

Oct 30, 2012 | 12:49 AM

#58

JamesKim

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Joined: Jun 2012

Posts: 116

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carsy

I have the filter I bought before at Mercedes that was used during the wrong oil change, I will have them just use that filter since it's still new. Motul is on this list.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

Apparently it's a better engine oil than Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge from doing a little research on Google.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

Ouch ~ He must use a block heater. I started a C200 in Harbin NE China a few years back at -50C outdoors. The car was not as cold as that but it sounded awful until it warmed up.

Yeah, I'll have it plugged all throughout winter.

Oh well, this ordeal seems to be done with. I'll just make sure they have an approved oil, I'm going to just bring that approved oil list so there won't be any mistakes.

I still haven't gotten that refund that I was promised, and he promised he'd mail the Cheque overnight :/ Hopefully there won't be an issue there.

I'm still baffled that the service department decided to raise the Service A price on me right on the spot, they just make up the price it seems. Mercedes should really get on that and set a reasonable standard price. Even though the dealerships may be independently owned, it gives them a bad image.

Last edited by JamesKim; Oct 30, 2012 at 12:54 AM.

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Oct 30, 2012 | 02:16 PM

#59

kevink2

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Joined: Sep 2008

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

.... Apparently it's a better engine oil than Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge from doing a little research on Google.....

Motul is well known in race circles. They will use 5W-30 I hope, vs the 5W-40.

Just for my education, who said Motul 5W-30/40 is better than Castrol 0W-30 in your case? For the extreme cold winters, the 0W-30 should provide better cold starts (crutial to reduced wear) when you have left the car away from the heater at home .... like at work?

.

Oct 30, 2012 | 02:31 PM

#60

Big Daddy

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Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 197

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From: Australia

C220 CDI SLK 200

Mercedes Benz Approved oils

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/eu...Engine_oil.pdf

Last edited by Big Daddy; Oct 30, 2012 at 02:37 PM.

Oct 30, 2012 | 03:39 PM

#61

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Irving Advant emailed the original shop back and told him that their oil was compatible with both 229.5 and 229.51. My understanding is that this is impossible. Are there any documents I can use to prove them wrong?

Oct 30, 2012 | 03:41 PM

#62

Carsy

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Joined: Mar 2008

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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia

2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan

Read the above docs & print off Glyn's explanation .You have got them !!

Good luck.

Oct 30, 2012 | 04:13 PM

#63

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink2

I'm not sure about cold starting, Castrol Edge may be better for that

It's just some independent testing I've seen online, cars seem to be getting the most power out of using Motul on Dyno tests, even with the same viscosity.

Oct 30, 2012 | 04:24 PM

#64

JamesKim

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Joined: Jun 2012

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Mercedes Benz Approved oils

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/eu...Engine_oil.pdf

AWESOME! Thanks a lot. That last PDF is the nail in the coffin.

Oct 30, 2012 | 05:24 PM

#65

kevink2

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

I'm not sure about cold starting, Castrol Edge may be better for that

It's just some independent testing I've seen online, cars seem to be getting the most power out of using Motul on Dyno tests, even with the same viscosity.

Those tests usually show about 5 hp gain, which you would not feel. That's important for drag racers, not you in my opinion. If Motul had an approved 0W-30, I'd say go for it. But for your extreme cold winters, the less thick 0W oil has more benefit vs the 5 hp at redline.

.

Oct 30, 2012 | 05:42 PM

#66

kevink2

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

You can also mention their own product information, that states it's a 229.51 oil, for their motor oils: 5W-30 and 5W-40 .

Erving Advent Oils

This does not explain the difference in water temp and mpg's.

That's why it's so important to get the oil in your car tested. The oils are often delivered from big tanks via delivery hoses. It could be they put a thicker motor or trans oil in your engine, by hose or even jug.

Please get the oil tested.

.

Oct 30, 2012 | 06:05 PM

#67

Glyn M Ruck

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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa

late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires

James asked me to comment. Hope I'm commenting on the correct thing. 5W-30 & 0W-30 is fine for summer too. Benz DTM race cars run on a boosted 229.5 formulation 5W-30. (I know - we make it for them) & I ran my previous car on it for a while.

Engines can sound a little more clattery on the lighter viscosities but it's nothing to worry about. What matters is 229.5 approval.

Oct 30, 2012 | 06:55 PM

#68

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

Hi! Thanks for commenting, but I was actually talking about CoastalBP claiming that their ADVANT formula meets both 229.5 and 229.51 approval. Big Daddy posted a great PDF of an official document claiming that 229.51 is for diesels and diesels only. I hope this is enough to convince them, the owner seems like a nice guy and is just worried that he bought 5000 liters of this ADVANT stuff.

Anyways, thanks for the help. I quoted what you've said on this thread in my emails to them, and I haven't heard back from them so I'm guessing I'm winning

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink2

It was from a two 5 liter jugs, not from a tank. And the label said 5w40. I have no idea why the temperature is off and why the mileage has gotten worse, but I'm going tomorrow to a European shop that will put an approved engine oil in. If it reverts to normal, I'll just blame the old oil and be done with it, if not, there might be something wrong. Too much of a coincident that this happened though, I think it's the oil somehow.

Last edited by JamesKim; Oct 30, 2012 at 06:58 PM.

Oct 30, 2012 | 08:39 PM

#69

kevink2

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

At least save a half quart of the old oil for later, just in case the change does make all things right again, then the old oil is not 5W-40

.

Oct 31, 2012 | 12:41 PM

#70

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

The shop I went to had the Motul 8100 x-cess, which is approved for 229.5. They were too busy so they turned me away until 2 hours later. I'll be going there later today. They quoted me 70 bucks for 7 liters. Much better price than the franchise (surprisingly) and of course the stealership. This will probably be my shop from now on. Only the 5w-40 is approved for 229.5, so I don't have a choice on that.

Oct 31, 2012 | 01:09 PM

#71

kevink2

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From: Delaware

2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

You could bring your own 0W30, which is the best viscosity for your area, in terms of cold starts and mpg's. Ran it 35000 miles in Delaware ... still doesn't burn a drop.

Good luck !

Oct 31, 2012 | 04:01 PM

#72

JamesKim

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From: Canada

2011 C250 4matic

Ok, I got the oil change done. When I got the receipt it showed 5w30, so I asked them why they put that one in. They told me that they didn't, and it was a mistake because they somehow add something to make the viscosity go from 5w40 to 5w30 to put into Volvo vehicles. They didn't use the diluted one for mine, but the computer automatically put 5w30. They corrected it, but that sounds kind of fishy. Can you really change viscosity from 5w40 to 5w30?

Oh well, my mileage returned to normal on my drive back. But it was only for 15 minutes, so I'll report if it goes bad again. My temperature reading is still kind of high, however, not at middle like it used to be. It's at 90 now instead of 100 like it was with the diesel stuff, so it's definitely improving. Should I be worried about this?

Also, what the shop quoted me as 70 bucks was for Oil only (plus 20 for labor). Which I think is a punk move from their part, cause I ended up paying 100 bucks anyways. Still 80 bucks less than the dealer though.

edit: Actually, with the filter, it's only 50 bucks less. I think I'm gonna just use my friends garage next time. I'll definitely use the 0w-30 Castrol Edge next time as well.

Last edited by JamesKim; Oct 31, 2012 at 04:17 PM.

Oct 31, 2012 | 08:15 PM

#73

Pete7874

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From: Illinois

'08 C300 4Matic Sport, '02 530i

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

They told me that they didn't, and it was a mistake because they somehow add something to make the viscosity go from 5w40 to 5w30 to put into Volvo vehicles. They didn't use the diluted one for mine, but the computer automatically put 5w30. They corrected it, but that sounds kind of fishy. Can you really change viscosity from 5w40 to 5w30?

This sounds like a shop full of crooks. Why would they go through the trouble of diluting 5w-40 for the Volvo when they could have just used 5w-30 instead? My advice is: stay far far away from this shop. Don't try to cheap out on service as it's going to cost you double in the end. If you want to save some money on oil changes, buy an oil extractor and do it yourself. It's very easy and at least you'll know that it was done right with the right kind of oil and filter. I've heard enough horror stories where shops claimed they performed the service, replaced this and that, but in reality they didn't do squat.

Quote:

My temperature reading is still kind of high, however, not at middle like it used to be. It's at 90 now instead of 100 like it was with the diesel stuff, so it's definitely improving. Should I be worried about this?

90 C is perfectly normal.

Last edited by Pete7874; Oct 31, 2012 at 08:18 PM.

Oct 31, 2012 | 09:54 PM

#74

Glyn M Ruck

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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa

late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKim

Shops diluting oil & messing with viscometrics is a big no no! They can't possibly get it correct & could unbalance the formulation. ~ idiots.

Anyway - 5W-40 will suffice for now as long as you use your block heater. For your ambient conditions 0W-30 or 0W- 40 would be more appropriate. Kevin is spot on.

Benz makes 2 thermostats for these cars. One that starts opening at 87 deg C & one that starts opening at 89 deg C (so called winter thermostat). 90 deg C is the correct operating temperature.

Oct 31, 2012 | 10:51 PM

#75

Carsy

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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia

2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan

James Lad,

This is quite a comedy of errors. For Christ Sake next time to do an oil change take the oil you want & filter with you & watch them put it in .

Better still find a spot to do it yourself.

It will save you an awful lot of grief.

John.

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