JamesKim

I changed my oil at an oil change franchise (decided to avoid MB since they were charging 180). I checked the approved engine oil sheet and found out that Volvoline synpower was on the approved list for my engine (M272). So I went to this shop that was offering it for a great price, only to find out that they no longer offered it. Then they told me to use an engine oil called Advant by Irving, and that it's approved for MB as well as other premium European cars. I wasn't so sure at first, but they were pretty adamant about it being great and that their computer showed it matches with my car.... now my mileage has gone down the gutter. Went from like 12.4 l/km to like 15-16l/km. Any thoughts on why this would be?

The oil code for that engine is 229.51. I found out that the oil required for my car is 229.5. But then after some research, apparently 229.51 used to be on the approved list for Petro cars until the U.S. started adding ethanol to their cars, and the only reason why 229.51 isn't accepted is because of the ethanol causing some kind of blockage?

The premium gas in the gas station I go to says there is 0 ethanol in it's premium gas.

Should I get the oil changed?

Glyn M Ruck

229.51 products are for diesel models only with Cat & particulate filter. It is a low SAPs product with low additive treat. It is the wrong oil for your car & I would get it out of there. Inadequate cam & tappet protection. You require a 229.5 approved product. ONLY use products actually listed.

It, however, can't possibly be the cause of your huge consumption swing.

JamesKim

Thanks, I wonder if the oil change place will refund me. I'm gonna try and complain.

Carsy

How may miles since the oil change ?

I wonder whether they over filled which may cause the poor consumption by increasing foaming & friction ?.Best to check the level.

A heavier grade oil would increase consumpton also. They may have put the diesel Heavy Duty oil in ? http://www.coastalbp.com/irving_news

Have the oil changed then see if the consumption improves.

Glyn M Ruck

Thicker or overfull oil will affect consumption but the reported swing is large. I'm talking in the range of 2 to 7% and only really when cold.

Carsy

Good info.

A couple of other reasons for the perceived higher mileage could be :-

Inaccurate consumption figures because of different driving conditions ?.

Coincidential failure of another component.ie blocked Cat,Air flow meter ect.

Fung63

dont forget lead footitis...

JamesKim

I've noticed nothing really different about the car, except the mileage is just poor. It doesn't even feel like I lost power, which is really weird. I checked the oil levels today and its good. They put 7 liters like they were supposed to for the 4matic version. I'll get the oil changed and post again.

dol4er

According to my manual, the 1.8 liter engine needs 5.5l engine oil... not 7l.

RuskiBenz

Where does it mention 1.8l engine? he said m272 is what he has

Glyn M Ruck

He actually has a M271 Evo Turbo unless Canada used the 250 nomenclature for the little V6 that never came to the US? Certainly possible.

EDIT ~ just looked at Canada & it is the 2.5l V6 M272.

dol4er

RuskiBenz, there is only one 250 CGI engine since 2011 and it is 1.8 liter. Mine is C250 and it is 1.8l, 204hp...

Overfilling with oil can lead to higher fuel consumption...

EDIT - I just saw the EDIT of the previous post... I haven't heard of C250 with 2.5 V6 or at least there is no such engine in Europe and US. If that is the case, then 7l may be good enough. Currently, they don't offer it on the Canadian website, only the 1.8l, so I guess it is discontinued.

Glyn M Ruck

Nah! thats for US. The 2.5 litre V6 was called a 230 in the W203 in the US. In some markets the W204 2.5 V6 was called a 250 until the I4 Turbo engine took over that moniker. All done to confuse us. We had no C250 V6 W204 in SA. Only C280 (3litre) & C350.

The US is really the one that breaks the MB global naming. MBUSA likes the badge to match the capacity but I'll bet that now that capacities are being reduced they will keep the higher number.

Maggy

not sure if this could be a factor, but if the technician knew what he was doing with Benz's and reset the shift programme and throttle as part of the oil change, could it be that the car is relearning your driving style and shifting differently, thus creating the loss in gas mileage?

just a guess!

JamesKim

No, I reset the service indicator myself. This guy admitted to me that he rarely ever gets European Luxery cars.

He even tried to convince me that 229.51 must be the newer designation for 229.5. I printed a bunch of sources as well as the official listing of approved oils stating 229.5 and 229.51 as independent oils, and that 229.51 is only for diesel. I will go and complain tomorrow, hopefully they give me my money back. They can't advertise "warranty approved oils" without giving warranty approved oils I'm sure if they're reasonable people, they should admit the mistake.

Thanks guys, I'll update whether or not they give me a refund.

JamesKim

They've admitted they made a mistake, but wouldn't give me a refund . They gave me the number of the owner and told me to call him, and he won't pick up. I left a message, but I really doubt I'll be hearing back from him.

kevink2

1) Never, ever, go to a Quicky-Lube unless you know the people that work there.

2) Find out the viscosity of the oil they put in. Likely a 15W-40 diesel oil which is very thick, and would cause loss of milage, but not 20% ???

3) do you have a 2.5LV6 or I4-turbo ?? Given the drag in the floating sleeve bearings of the turbo, that could put drag on the turbine/compressor wheel, also making gas milage worse.

4) what are the coldest temps in the winter? Hottest in summer?

5) what did he charge in USD ?

6) did they overfill it ?


Recomendation:

If possible, use Castrol Edge 0W-30, which is 229.5 approved. If that is not around, find an approved ?W-30 synthetic oil. Note that 229.5 includes 60% ?W-40 oils, and 40% ?W-30 oils (break-in oil is 5W-30).

Depending what you had been running before Quicky-Lube, you should see a noticeably better milage. Also a better oil for cold starts, vs ?W-40 oils.

.

Carsy

James,

At least you will be able to change the incorrect oil out .

I would keep ringing the owner.Don't you have a auto consumer affairs body in Canada that can help you receive your money back?.

It might be time to find a knowledgable independant or DIY.

Pete7874

It's true that it's got a weaker ad pack (lower TBN), but I would not necessarily "get it out of there" for that reason alone. All it means is that he should probably not wait 10K miles or 1 year with the next oil change as the additives may not make it that long considering the quality of gasoline in north america. By the way it's not just ethanol, but also higher sulfur levels in our gasoline that lead companies like MB and BMW to advise against the use of 229.51 and LL-04 oils in gasoline engines outside of Europe. 5-7.5K miles should be OK on that oil though.

Agreed. Something else is up that just happened to coincide with his oil change. Maybe arrival of colder Autumn temps? Colder temps = engine takes longer to warm up = running rich longer = more fuel burned.

JamesKim

Hi! It's the 2.5l v6, only for Canada. It's before the facelift. They used 0w40, so I don't understand the consumption swing either. My engine temperature went from right at 80 to floating around 100 after this oil change. Weather hasn't really changed since I got the oil change, but it'll get really damn cold soon. Like -40 (Celsius) around here.

If Castrol Edge is better than Mobil 1, I might buy it and give it to the dealer. I'd love to DIY, but I live in an apartment and they've banned oil changes due to people spilling everywhere and never cleaning up. I should've known better than to trust franchise chains.

The owner actually called me back today and told me he'd refund me with a cheque. I'll get this oil out of here ASAP though, probably tomorrow. They're offering the Castrol Edge for $11.49 a liter here, and the Titanium for around $14. What is the better buy?

Mobile 0w40 vs Castrol Edge 0w30 vs Castrol Edge Titanium 0w30

Any significant differences amongst the three?

I just can't get over the fact that dealer wants $180 + taxes for a damn oil change here. Can they seriously charge so much labor for an oil change?

edit:

Now I'm confused. So I can just leave the stuff in there for a bit? Would you have any ideas on why my Engine temperature went from sitting right at middle on 80 to 100?

edit 2: Also, I get my gas from a gas station here that claim they don't put any ethanol in their premium gas.

JamesKim

Do you guys ever use Service A and B? Do you think it's worth it? I'm contemplating just doing that, seems like a lot of trouble saved.

Carsy

James,

Listen to Glyn ( above) as he is the the lubrication expert with many years of experience working in this field. You should not leave the oil in for any length of time.

Try to find a European independent mechanic to do the job.It is not rocket science . Just needs care & interest in the model.

Please find attached a list of more choice of oils.

Regarding your coolant temperature swings , it could be caused by a faulty thermostat.They are supposed to fail open so the temp should fall?.I wonder whether your instrumentation is at fault ? ie fuel & temp.

JamesKim

Will do. Thanks everyone. I think I might just bring the car to the dealer for Service A, seems like the easy cop out.

xXHotelCrazyXx

Glyn, we can't thank you enough!!! You are just a godsend!

kevink2

A thicker oil will run hotter, but a 20 deg difference is hard to account for. They more likely used 5W40. What was the oil viscosity you had prior to this diesel oil ??

Irving Advant 5W-40


If it's not on this global list, don't buy it: The Castrol Edge Titanium 0W-30 is NOT listed, not approved. For temps that get down to -40F(-40C), I still say the approved Castrol 0W-30. Mobil1 does not have an approved oil in this viscosity.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html --- Global Oil List


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