Poor acceleration and power 220 CDI 2008
11-21-2012, 08:39 AM
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220 CDI Touring 2008
Poor acceleration and power 220 CDI 2008
Hello everyone!
Been searching the forum the entire day to try solve my problem or at least get a deeper understanding to if anyone else has had the same issue.
My car, a 2008 220 CDI Estate/Touring - beautiful and great car.. performs like a 1980 fiat punto. Real ****ty.
To the problem then..
While accelerating, the car has virually no power until 2500 rpm, at 3000 rpm I'd say the car accelerates as it should. This makes driving boooooring and also annoying because on the highway i cant even use 6th gear because there is not enough power to keep the car in speed, I have to be in 5th tops. Blows.
Thats to give you an idea of the power of the car.
We have replaced the over flow oil/diesel hoses (dont know what they are called in reality), part number A6460702132 and A2048600269 because we found a malfunction in the hose. It was not tight and was letting out air, thus causing (we thought) the car to perform bad. However there is really no major difference.
After reading through the forums on similar issues people have cars that stop revving at 3000rpm (thats where mine really starts going, and pulls all the way) and/or having the car stop at 60mph (100kmh) and not going faster (mine will go as long as it has the turbo power - 200kmh + is no problem...
The problem is not having any power to speak of under 2500 rpm.
Please, please help me with this, my mechanic says that the car has no fault codes but seems to be delivering too little fuel (diesel) until it hits 2500-3000 rpm. We are going to try and bypass the particle filter and see if it makes a difference. Are we going in the right direction?
Any ideas? Cheers.
Ed
Been searching the forum the entire day to try solve my problem or at least get a deeper understanding to if anyone else has had the same issue.
My car, a 2008 220 CDI Estate/Touring - beautiful and great car.. performs like a 1980 fiat punto. Real ****ty.
To the problem then..
While accelerating, the car has virually no power until 2500 rpm, at 3000 rpm I'd say the car accelerates as it should. This makes driving boooooring and also annoying because on the highway i cant even use 6th gear because there is not enough power to keep the car in speed, I have to be in 5th tops. Blows.
Thats to give you an idea of the power of the car.
We have replaced the over flow oil/diesel hoses (dont know what they are called in reality), part number A6460702132 and A2048600269 because we found a malfunction in the hose. It was not tight and was letting out air, thus causing (we thought) the car to perform bad. However there is really no major difference.
After reading through the forums on similar issues people have cars that stop revving at 3000rpm (thats where mine really starts going, and pulls all the way) and/or having the car stop at 60mph (100kmh) and not going faster (mine will go as long as it has the turbo power - 200kmh + is no problem...
The problem is not having any power to speak of under 2500 rpm.
Please, please help me with this, my mechanic says that the car has no fault codes but seems to be delivering too little fuel (diesel) until it hits 2500-3000 rpm. We are going to try and bypass the particle filter and see if it makes a difference. Are we going in the right direction?
Any ideas? Cheers.
Ed
11-21-2012, 09:54 AM
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C220 W204
Sprint booster may be the option here to achieve better take-offs, though at the cost of higher fuel consumption. Otherwise there's the more expansive option of ECU modification, though u'd still have to cope with the turbo lag we're experiencing here.
11-21-2012, 10:17 AM
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This isn't the problem here, if under 2500 rpm the car will decelerate on a flat highway. There should be ample pickup from 1100 rpm under normal circumstances.
11-21-2012, 11:52 AM
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220 CDI Touring 2008
We've looked at the turbo and it seems fine. I first thought the same thing, but mechanic has double even triple checked i. feels good, spools nice and no black, white or blueish smoke out the pipes... The turbo also seems tight and fine.
Other suggestions welcome.
Thanks!
Other suggestions welcome.
Thanks!
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11-21-2012, 02:46 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Some going back to basic thoughts :-
A bad batch of fuel.
Fuel tank pump & strainer.
Fuel filter blocked.
Can you do a rail pressure check ?
Cats or DPF blockage . Has it been doing DPF Regens ? . Do you only drive short distances at a time ?.
Air cleaner blockage.
Air Flow meter fault.
I can't understand why you are not throwing codes.
How many KM has the car done ?
Have you done any engine mods?
No brake binding .
A job for our Ausmbtec .Here is his answer to a possible blocked cat :-
"Does it always have low power or is it fine then looses power after driving for a while?
Common issues are jammed turbo vanes, air flow sensors, EGR valve blocked, boost pressure sensor faults or vacuum leak to the turbo control valve or damaged intake manifold flaps.
Only having the fault code for low boost pressure and if there is never full power then I'd suspect the boost pressure sensor, vacuum leak or turbo vanes jammed.
Good power than loosing after extending driving (usually constant speeds) mostly jamming turbo vanes.
Cats usually give low power all the time, sometimes after changing the cats the air mass meter dies (it would already be failing, but the sudden increase in air flow takes it beyond it's useful range and trips a new code).
Cats on CDI2 engines (mostly ML270) regularly blocked up in Australia, CDI3 engines rarely block cats unless the driver is particularly gentle. This is due to fuel being more finely atomised/less soot on the CDI3 and later engines.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Ausmbtech; 01-26-2012 at 03:41 PM. "
Good luck & keep us posted.
Carsy John.
A bad batch of fuel.
Fuel tank pump & strainer.
Fuel filter blocked.
Can you do a rail pressure check ?
Cats or DPF blockage . Has it been doing DPF Regens ? . Do you only drive short distances at a time ?.
Air cleaner blockage.
Air Flow meter fault.
I can't understand why you are not throwing codes.
How many KM has the car done ?
Have you done any engine mods?
No brake binding .
A job for our Ausmbtec .Here is his answer to a possible blocked cat :-
"Does it always have low power or is it fine then looses power after driving for a while?
Common issues are jammed turbo vanes, air flow sensors, EGR valve blocked, boost pressure sensor faults or vacuum leak to the turbo control valve or damaged intake manifold flaps.
Only having the fault code for low boost pressure and if there is never full power then I'd suspect the boost pressure sensor, vacuum leak or turbo vanes jammed.
Good power than loosing after extending driving (usually constant speeds) mostly jamming turbo vanes.
Cats usually give low power all the time, sometimes after changing the cats the air mass meter dies (it would already be failing, but the sudden increase in air flow takes it beyond it's useful range and trips a new code).
Cats on CDI2 engines (mostly ML270) regularly blocked up in Australia, CDI3 engines rarely block cats unless the driver is particularly gentle. This is due to fuel being more finely atomised/less soot on the CDI3 and later engines.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Ausmbtech; 01-26-2012 at 03:41 PM. "
Good luck & keep us posted.
Carsy John.
11-22-2012, 03:39 AM
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220 CDI Touring 2008
Some going back to basic thoughts :-
A bad batch of fuel.
---Not likely, but my mechanic asked if maybe the car had been used with biodiesel, if maybe algae could have been growing in the tank?
Fuel tank pump & strainer.
---We are going to check the pump hopefully today. Keep an update rolling...
Fuel filter blocked.
---Wondering the same. I've ordered a set of new filters for the car all round, including the fuel filter.
Can you do a rail pressure check ?
---Sorry mate, wtf is that? :-) haha.
Cats or DPF blockage . Has it been doing DPF Regens ? . Do you only drive short distances at a time ?.
---No, car has been used more of a commuter, which also makes issues like this more unlikely. Was planning on selling the car soon for a new one, this needs to be fixed
Air cleaner blockage.
---going to change this as well, but it seems odd because i have almost full power around 3,000rpm
Air Flow meter fault.
---good thought, will check on this today. But if it was an air flow meter fault the car should be giving a fault code... :-///
I can't understand why you are not throwing codes.
---we dont either....
How many KM has the car done ?
---180,000km
Have you done any engine mods?
---none
No brake binding .
---none to speak of.
A job for our Ausmbtec .Here is his answer to a possible blocked cat :-
"Does it always have low power or is it fine then looses power after driving for a while?
---constant low power from start to warm to stop.
Common issues are jammed turbo vanes, air flow sensors, EGR valve blocked, boost pressure sensor faults or vacuum leak to the turbo control valve or damaged intake manifold flaps.
---we are going to look at vacuum leak today.
Only having the fault code for low boost pressure and if there is never full power then I'd suspect the boost pressure sensor, vacuum leak or turbo vanes jammed.
---will check, no fault codes... Bummer.
Good power than loosing after extending driving (usually constant speeds) mostly jamming turbo vanes.
---no good power here, only after 2500-3000rpm
Cats usually give low power all the time, sometimes after changing the cats the air mass meter dies (it would already be failing, but the sudden increase in air flow takes it beyond it's useful range and trips a new code).
---an expensive and last resort solution. Damn it.
Cats on CDI2 engines (mostly ML270) regularly blocked up in Australia, CDI3 engines rarely block cats unless the driver is particularly gentle. This is due to fuel being more finely atomised/less soot on the CDI3 and later engines.
---not sure what engine i have, but its the single turbo engine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Ausmbtech; 01-26-2012 at 03:41 PM. "
Good luck & keep us posted.
Carsy John.
A bad batch of fuel.
---Not likely, but my mechanic asked if maybe the car had been used with biodiesel, if maybe algae could have been growing in the tank?
Fuel tank pump & strainer.
---We are going to check the pump hopefully today. Keep an update rolling...
Fuel filter blocked.
---Wondering the same. I've ordered a set of new filters for the car all round, including the fuel filter.
Can you do a rail pressure check ?
---Sorry mate, wtf is that? :-) haha.
Cats or DPF blockage . Has it been doing DPF Regens ? . Do you only drive short distances at a time ?.
---No, car has been used more of a commuter, which also makes issues like this more unlikely. Was planning on selling the car soon for a new one, this needs to be fixed
Air cleaner blockage.
---going to change this as well, but it seems odd because i have almost full power around 3,000rpm
Air Flow meter fault.
---good thought, will check on this today. But if it was an air flow meter fault the car should be giving a fault code... :-///
I can't understand why you are not throwing codes.
---we dont either....
How many KM has the car done ?
---180,000km
Have you done any engine mods?
---none
No brake binding .
---none to speak of.
A job for our Ausmbtec .Here is his answer to a possible blocked cat :-
"Does it always have low power or is it fine then looses power after driving for a while?
---constant low power from start to warm to stop.
Common issues are jammed turbo vanes, air flow sensors, EGR valve blocked, boost pressure sensor faults or vacuum leak to the turbo control valve or damaged intake manifold flaps.
---we are going to look at vacuum leak today.
Only having the fault code for low boost pressure and if there is never full power then I'd suspect the boost pressure sensor, vacuum leak or turbo vanes jammed.
---will check, no fault codes... Bummer.
Good power than loosing after extending driving (usually constant speeds) mostly jamming turbo vanes.
---no good power here, only after 2500-3000rpm
Cats usually give low power all the time, sometimes after changing the cats the air mass meter dies (it would already be failing, but the sudden increase in air flow takes it beyond it's useful range and trips a new code).
---an expensive and last resort solution. Damn it.
Cats on CDI2 engines (mostly ML270) regularly blocked up in Australia, CDI3 engines rarely block cats unless the driver is particularly gentle. This is due to fuel being more finely atomised/less soot on the CDI3 and later engines.
---not sure what engine i have, but its the single turbo engine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Ausmbtech; 01-26-2012 at 03:41 PM. "
Good luck & keep us posted.
Carsy John.
Thanks Carsy, i will definately keep ypu posted on this! Meanwhile, if anyone has anything to contribute to the issues above, please do so.
Thanks again!!
Ed
11-22-2012, 04:33 AM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Can you do a rail pressure check ?
---Sorry mate, wtf is that? :-) haha.
The common rail supplies low pressurised fuel to the injectors for high pressurising. AS it has a sensor it should throw a code if the pressure is incorrect I persume.
I have unsuccessfully tried to send an attachment.
11-22-2012, 02:37 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Can you do a rail pressure check ?
---Sorry mate, wtf is that? :-) haha.
The common rail supplies low pressurised fuel to the injectors for high pressurising. AS it has a sensor it should throw a code if the pressure is incorrect I persume.
I have unsuccessfully tried to send an attachment.
---Sorry mate, wtf is that? :-) haha.
The common rail supplies low pressurised fuel to the injectors for high pressurising. AS it has a sensor it should throw a code if the pressure is incorrect I persume.
I have unsuccessfully tried to send an attachment.
11-23-2012, 12:34 AM
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Thanks again Carsy!
Right now i'm not so worried anymore, we seem to have found the problem and it lies in the turbo - in a way....
You mentioned jamming turbo vanes, I wasnt really sure what you mean't with that and the build up of this turbo is different from other turbos I've owned in the past. I was at MBZ dealership to buy some parts and the parts guy was kind enough to get me a mechanic who actually kust a few days ago had encountered the exact same ordeal with an AMG c-class diesel. And told me the fault was in the jamming vanes. He told me exactly how to loosen them, so i headed back to mechanic with the news...
The turbo has variable turbo vanes that spread out and retract depending on the speed of the turbo and the rpm of the engine. The vanes were jammed and did not move at all thus only giving the car action at 3000rpm or above. we loosened them and got the whole system moving again - and also power returned but not for long.
We test drove the car and the vanes jammed up again and now they keep jamming. Weve soaked it up and having it stay over night hoping it will resolve the problem.
Keep you posted, heading to mechanic shortly. cheers!
Right now i'm not so worried anymore, we seem to have found the problem and it lies in the turbo - in a way....
You mentioned jamming turbo vanes, I wasnt really sure what you mean't with that and the build up of this turbo is different from other turbos I've owned in the past. I was at MBZ dealership to buy some parts and the parts guy was kind enough to get me a mechanic who actually kust a few days ago had encountered the exact same ordeal with an AMG c-class diesel. And told me the fault was in the jamming vanes. He told me exactly how to loosen them, so i headed back to mechanic with the news...
The turbo has variable turbo vanes that spread out and retract depending on the speed of the turbo and the rpm of the engine. The vanes were jammed and did not move at all thus only giving the car action at 3000rpm or above. we loosened them and got the whole system moving again - and also power returned but not for long.
We test drove the car and the vanes jammed up again and now they keep jamming. Weve soaked it up and having it stay over night hoping it will resolve the problem.
Keep you posted, heading to mechanic shortly. cheers!
11-23-2012, 02:02 AM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Good news . Big Daddy was on the money on post #5.
I will be interested to know how you free them up..
I will be interested to know how you free them up..
11-23-2012, 02:06 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks again Carsy!
Right now i'm not so worried anymore, we seem to have found the problem and it lies in the turbo - in a way....
You mentioned jamming turbo vanes, I wasnt really sure what you mean't with that and the build up of this turbo is different from other turbos I've owned in the past. I was at MBZ dealership to buy some parts and the parts guy was kind enough to get me a mechanic who actually kust a few days ago had encountered the exact same ordeal with an AMG c-class diesel. And told me the fault was in the jamming vanes. He told me exactly how to loosen them, so i headed back to mechanic with the news...
The turbo has variable turbo vanes that spread out and retract depending on the speed of the turbo and the rpm of the engine. The vanes were jammed and did not move at all thus only giving the car action at 3000rpm or above. we loosened them and got the whole system moving again - and also power returned but not for long.
We test drove the car and the vanes jammed up again and now they keep jamming. Weve soaked it up and having it stay over night hoping it will resolve the problem.
Keep you posted, heading to mechanic shortly. cheers!
Right now i'm not so worried anymore, we seem to have found the problem and it lies in the turbo - in a way....
You mentioned jamming turbo vanes, I wasnt really sure what you mean't with that and the build up of this turbo is different from other turbos I've owned in the past. I was at MBZ dealership to buy some parts and the parts guy was kind enough to get me a mechanic who actually kust a few days ago had encountered the exact same ordeal with an AMG c-class diesel. And told me the fault was in the jamming vanes. He told me exactly how to loosen them, so i headed back to mechanic with the news...
The turbo has variable turbo vanes that spread out and retract depending on the speed of the turbo and the rpm of the engine. The vanes were jammed and did not move at all thus only giving the car action at 3000rpm or above. we loosened them and got the whole system moving again - and also power returned but not for long.
We test drove the car and the vanes jammed up again and now they keep jamming. Weve soaked it up and having it stay over night hoping it will resolve the problem.
Keep you posted, heading to mechanic shortly. cheers!
I hope this is not a common problem with these engines. My previous diesel Peugeot has a waste gate & there was absolutely no maintenance done on the turbo in 270,000 Km. I did fit a turbo timer when new.
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-06-05.php
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...oval-vanes.htm
11-26-2012, 03:27 AM
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220 CDI Touring 2008
Weekly update
Well, last week was a heck of a week. Finding the problem and managing to source parts is a full time job its self.
The part that seems to be failing is the electronic turbo controller. A unit that decides on how much boost to give the car at any given RPM. they dont make them as they used to. This part is attached to the turbo and adjustes the turbo vanes when more or less exhaust is travelling through. Optimising the turbo at different RPMs.
Ive sourced a used one from germany that should be arriving this week. New one at mercedes cost 1500€ roughly and they wanted 2800€ for the turbo. Total rip off. My used part was purchased for 180€ of ebay, so almost 1/10th of the original price! We are assuming this is the faulty part since it will not adjust the turbo properly, also sometimes when you start the ignition it rattles like as if there is a faulty connection to it.
Well, thats it for now, as soon as we mount the part I will for sure update the thread - hoping that this is the part thats is broken. :-)
Cheers!
Edward
The part that seems to be failing is the electronic turbo controller. A unit that decides on how much boost to give the car at any given RPM. they dont make them as they used to. This part is attached to the turbo and adjustes the turbo vanes when more or less exhaust is travelling through. Optimising the turbo at different RPMs.
Ive sourced a used one from germany that should be arriving this week. New one at mercedes cost 1500€ roughly and they wanted 2800€ for the turbo. Total rip off. My used part was purchased for 180€ of ebay, so almost 1/10th of the original price! We are assuming this is the faulty part since it will not adjust the turbo properly, also sometimes when you start the ignition it rattles like as if there is a faulty connection to it.
Well, thats it for now, as soon as we mount the part I will for sure update the thread - hoping that this is the part thats is broken. :-)
Cheers!
Edward
11-26-2012, 05:43 AM
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C220 CDI SLK 200
Well, last week was a heck of a week. Finding the problem and managing to source parts is a full time job its self.
The part that seems to be failing is the electronic turbo controller. A unit that decides on how much boost to give the car at any given RPM. they dont make them as they used to. This part is attached to the turbo and adjustes the turbo vanes when more or less exhaust is travelling through. Optimising the turbo at different RPMs.
Ive sourced a used one from germany that should be arriving this week. New one at mercedes cost 1500€ roughly and they wanted 2800€ for the turbo. Total rip off. My used part was purchased for 180€ of ebay, so almost 1/10th of the original price! We are assuming this is the faulty part since it will not adjust the turbo properly, also sometimes when you start the ignition it rattles like as if there is a faulty connection to it.
Well, thats it for now, as soon as we mount the part I will for sure update the thread - hoping that this is the part thats is broken. :-)
Cheers!
Edward
The part that seems to be failing is the electronic turbo controller. A unit that decides on how much boost to give the car at any given RPM. they dont make them as they used to. This part is attached to the turbo and adjustes the turbo vanes when more or less exhaust is travelling through. Optimising the turbo at different RPMs.
Ive sourced a used one from germany that should be arriving this week. New one at mercedes cost 1500€ roughly and they wanted 2800€ for the turbo. Total rip off. My used part was purchased for 180€ of ebay, so almost 1/10th of the original price! We are assuming this is the faulty part since it will not adjust the turbo properly, also sometimes when you start the ignition it rattles like as if there is a faulty connection to it.
Well, thats it for now, as soon as we mount the part I will for sure update the thread - hoping that this is the part thats is broken. :-)
Cheers!
Edward
Its a stock standard Garrett GTB1752V turbo that is used on BMW and Volkswagen 2 litre diesels . If by chance you have to buy a new one there are many shops around that refurbish them for a fraction of the 2.8k asked by MB
11-26-2012, 06:34 AM
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c220
C220 where are you located
I am having same issue and no error codes are being stored
And dealers claim there is nothing wrong with the car
So you bought a 2nd hand turbo is that all I need
I am having same issue and no error codes are being stored
And dealers claim there is nothing wrong with the car
So you bought a 2nd hand turbo is that all I need
11-26-2012, 03:02 PM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, last week was a heck of a week. Finding the problem and managing to source parts is a full time job its self.
The part that seems to be failing is the electronic turbo controller. A unit that decides on how much boost to give the car at any given RPM. they dont make them as they used to. This part is attached to the turbo and adjustes the turbo vanes when more or less exhaust is travelling through. Optimising the turbo at different RPMs.
Ive sourced a used one from germany that should be arriving this week. New one at mercedes cost 1500€ roughly and they wanted 2800€ for the turbo. Total rip off. My used part was purchased for 180€ of ebay, so almost 1/10th of the original price! We are assuming this is the faulty part since it will not adjust the turbo properly, also sometimes when you start the ignition it rattles like as if there is a faulty connection to it.
Well, thats it for now, as soon as we mount the part I will for sure update the thread - hoping that this is the part thats is broken. :-)
Cheers!
Edward
The part that seems to be failing is the electronic turbo controller. A unit that decides on how much boost to give the car at any given RPM. they dont make them as they used to. This part is attached to the turbo and adjustes the turbo vanes when more or less exhaust is travelling through. Optimising the turbo at different RPMs.
Ive sourced a used one from germany that should be arriving this week. New one at mercedes cost 1500€ roughly and they wanted 2800€ for the turbo. Total rip off. My used part was purchased for 180€ of ebay, so almost 1/10th of the original price! We are assuming this is the faulty part since it will not adjust the turbo properly, also sometimes when you start the ignition it rattles like as if there is a faulty connection to it.
Well, thats it for now, as soon as we mount the part I will for sure update the thread - hoping that this is the part thats is broken. :-)
Cheers!
Edward
There are a lot of sensors involved to complicate diagnosis.
Would hooking up to Star diagnose the problem?
11-29-2012, 03:37 AM
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Check ebay in germany, there are several there that you can buy for 300€ plus shipping. Here is one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/GARRETT-TURBO...#ht_2382wt_948
Well we arent sure yet if it will solve all the trouble with the boost, but we are quite sure. If I were you I'd wait a few days until mine arrives (slow DHL shipping) and its mounted, then you can be sure. :-)
You can also grt great package deals on turbo and boost controller combo on ebay, if your turbo is worn, maybe time to swap both.
But you can also try and free up the vanes in the turbo by dissmounting the link rod between the boost controller and the turbo inlet and try to move them manually. If it still will not work after that then you will have to swap the boost control module. Or so it seems.
Dont know why but i havent been getting any email notifications of the thread, sorry for late answer.
Cheers!
11-29-2012, 03:40 AM
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Thanks! Wow, lots of parts... Damn, it could be any of those sensors that give fault reading. If we dont solve to problem now I'll have to bring it to Star to diagnose the part. Thanks mate!
11-29-2012, 03:41 AM
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