Latest MB tech still the SLOWEST thing going
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Understand very well how all this works, it's the head scratching the TCU does while waiting for the 6 other inputs on the CAN bus to fall within parameters so it fits inside the limits of a lookup table. When it does, and ONLY when it does, a command to shift is given. If the information from the CAN, including engine speed, yaw sensors, throttle position, and the internal 7G sensors which measure input vs output rotation, slippage and torque do not all fit within certain ranges, the TCU will wait.
There is also a lot of built-in intentional slippage in the Clutch andBrake plates, plus the few occasions when the torque convertor actually locks up 100%. Making for a (sloppy?) experience by design. Agreed that the S400 low gasoline consumption is an eye-opener!
There is also a lot of built-in intentional slippage in the Clutch andBrake plates, plus the few occasions when the torque convertor actually locks up 100%. Making for a (sloppy?) experience by design. Agreed that the S400 low gasoline consumption is an eye-opener!
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
No ~ what little latency there is, is there by programming choice & not design limitation. You might wish to read the sprint booster white paper where actual latency is measured. You understand music & music systems so I don't have to explain to you the speed of the respective electronics. Nevertheless we humans are very sensitive to latency with some people able to detect 10 milliseconds or above but we can tolerate 500ms on a telephone.
Are you worried by 40 to 60ms latency across a typical orchestra?
Are you worried by 40 to 60ms latency across a typical orchestra?
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2013
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2011 C300
I can confirm that there is a good 2 second delay for the transmission to react when I stomp on it. It is very noticeable and irritating. I also understand it's a programming issue and not a limitation issue of the actual transmission. Nonetheless, it's irritating.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Reviewing the design parameters of the 7G nearly 3 years ago, and updated now, (the 5G was a less refined beast, having had the task of torturing one for 320k kms), agreed that its "latency" is the result of deliberate design parameters. As mentioned above, MB is concerned about pleasing its core market, not the fringe, in MB's mainstream product. The fringe is AMG which they do very well, and currently are doing even BETTER.
One only needs to consider the new 2014 E63 AMG Estate (Wagon) with its 3.6-3.7 sec. time, to appreciate true greatness in an integral design. The stock W204 falls short. Better stop complaining and ante up the investment next time. Although doing the Weistec 7G rebuild and remap is on my Xmas list.
Some psychoacoustic experts claim that lower than 10ms delays, such as the distance one's ears at the speed of sound, are the entire basis of spatial reference and direction. The clues are quite subtle and the processing power of the human brain (also dogs, maybe dolphins and whales) is quite extraordinary. Given that, suggests being humble.
One only needs to consider the new 2014 E63 AMG Estate (Wagon) with its 3.6-3.7 sec. time, to appreciate true greatness in an integral design. The stock W204 falls short. Better stop complaining and ante up the investment next time. Although doing the Weistec 7G rebuild and remap is on my Xmas list.
Some psychoacoustic experts claim that lower than 10ms delays, such as the distance one's ears at the speed of sound, are the entire basis of spatial reference and direction. The clues are quite subtle and the processing power of the human brain (also dogs, maybe dolphins and whales) is quite extraordinary. Given that, suggests being humble.
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From: Silicon Valley, California
Factory ordered 2012 MB C350 w/Dynamic Handling Package
This I would agree with Acapulco Bill. I have a friend who has a 2013 BMW 1-series with MM Package, and between that, the Lexus and the MB....the MB is last in terms of UI functionality/friendliness. If you consider Lexus = Win98, you'll probably feel MB = GEM OS (if your even old enough to have used it) once you start using other systems.
Between my personal experience with Lexus, Acura, Infinity, BMW and MB....I'll have to rank Lexus on top (the haptic feedback mouselike system rocks). Unfortunately, due to family experiences with American made cars, I have yet to convince anyone from going back, so no input/experience there.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Here is the MY2010 Audio20 screen playing a Red Book AIFF original CD. Note that the headunit has actually accessed the time info, as it has to constantly calculate the progress bar based on the original file's length. The second shot is the "menu" showing some of the Tracks on the unnamed CD.
BMWs built from mid-2003 displayed at least the name of the tune, displaying both full CD and home-recorded MP3 disks (with the proper file structure of course) on the then single-line red LED screen. The 2004 model of the 7-Series had full iPod connectivity.
"Is this tech?" No further comment is needed.
BMWs built from mid-2003 displayed at least the name of the tune, displaying both full CD and home-recorded MP3 disks (with the proper file structure of course) on the then single-line red LED screen. The 2004 model of the 7-Series had full iPod connectivity.
"Is this tech?" No further comment is needed.
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From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
You're driving a 4 year old car that is equipped with the baseline of what Mercedes offered at the time. If you couldn't get COMAND in Mexico, I'm sorry for that. For those of us in the ROW, your complaints don't really hold water...
It's also better than what BMW offered in 2010 as their baseline audio system in terms of interface.
versus
Complaining about your car versus a car actually equipped with COMAND is an apples and oranges comparison.
It's also better than what BMW offered in 2010 as their baseline audio system in terms of interface.
versus
Complaining about your car versus a car actually equipped with COMAND is an apples and oranges comparison.
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From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
This I would agree with Acapulco Bill. I have a friend who has a 2013 BMW 1-series with MM Package, and between that, the Lexus and the MB....the MB is last in terms of UI functionality/friendliness. If you consider Lexus = Win98, you'll probably feel MB = GEM OS (if your even old enough to have used it) once you start using other systems.
Enter a destination in IDrive and then enter one in COMAND and it makes itself apparent which is the better product. If anything, IDrive makes COMAND look simplistic as there simply aren't that many options/settings to go through unless you are in an S class. At 70 MPH, COMAND is infinitely easier to use with less distraction.
Last edited by MDMercedesGuy; Aug 13, 2013 at 01:52 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Talk to your dealer & ask them to do the latest AMG flash they have to your TCU. Some refinement will be lost.
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From: Silicon Valley, California
Factory ordered 2012 MB C350 w/Dynamic Handling Package
Here is the MY2010 Audio20 screen playing a Red Book AIFF original CD. Note that the headunit has actually accessed the time info, as it has to constantly calculate the progress bar based on the original file's length. The second shot is the "menu" showing some of the Tracks on the unnamed CD.
...
"Is this tech?" No further comment is needed.
...
"Is this tech?" No further comment is needed.
Then again I've transitioned away from CDs (700megs and physical media is too inconvenient) and instead use either my phone (bluetooth if left in the pocket or direct connection when charging) or an SDHC card (located below the rewind button) to play music or browse photos. So far I can validate that up to 32GB cards work (I don't have anything bigger to test yet), but I'm hoping to maybe play movies off this as well. However if copying music files is too inconvenient, you can also just stream from Pandora (automatically detects once I enter the car).
You can also display whatever is showing on the main screen to the center speedometer in the event your passenger is playing around with the main unit. (ex: music info, navigation directions including lanes, individual tire pressures, etc).
Last edited by edgalang; Aug 14, 2013 at 01:28 AM.
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From: Silicon Valley, California
Factory ordered 2012 MB C350 w/Dynamic Handling Package
A little off topic...but my last post got me curious since I've never actually tried the video feature. So...after scouring the house for a physical dvd (I rarely have physical media anymore) I finally found an unwrapped box that my wife seemed to have ordered a long time ago but have forgotten about it. The audio also supports DTS 7.1 surround.
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2026 GLC300 4Matic (X254)
edgalang:
My stuff looks very much like yours, except I notice in my center screen my colors are different. My E indicator is green and S is red. I have a 2013 though. My COMAND screen color scheme appears different too. Why they made a change from 2012 to 2013, I can't say....(esp considering the BIG change occurred for 2012).
MDMercedes:
In addition to my 2013 W204, we have an F30 328i with NAV. And I must agree, COMAND is easier to use and a tad more intuitive than iDrive. The cheap screen in the BMW is not pretty either. It's a 5 year old newer design than the W204...what's their excuse for having an interior like that?
What annoys me is that some people don't like COMAND because they WANT the hard buttons like iDrive has. I always wonder - can these people actually SEE? COMAND has the exact same hard buttons as iDrive (I use them as I hate scroll wheels of any kind). They are located up where we can see them instead of down on scroll wheel.
Either way, not sure why someone would buy an old car and then complain about the "tech" look and feel or performance. Get in a 2013 Acura TSX and behold Atari 2600 graphics!
My stuff looks very much like yours, except I notice in my center screen my colors are different. My E indicator is green and S is red. I have a 2013 though. My COMAND screen color scheme appears different too. Why they made a change from 2012 to 2013, I can't say....(esp considering the BIG change occurred for 2012).
MDMercedes:
In addition to my 2013 W204, we have an F30 328i with NAV. And I must agree, COMAND is easier to use and a tad more intuitive than iDrive. The cheap screen in the BMW is not pretty either. It's a 5 year old newer design than the W204...what's their excuse for having an interior like that?
What annoys me is that some people don't like COMAND because they WANT the hard buttons like iDrive has. I always wonder - can these people actually SEE? COMAND has the exact same hard buttons as iDrive (I use them as I hate scroll wheels of any kind). They are located up where we can see them instead of down on scroll wheel.
Either way, not sure why someone would buy an old car and then complain about the "tech" look and feel or performance. Get in a 2013 Acura TSX and behold Atari 2600 graphics!
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From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
What annoys me is that some people don't like COMAND because they WANT the hard buttons like iDrive has. I always wonder - can these people actually SEE? COMAND has the exact same hard buttons as iDrive (I use them as I hate scroll wheels of any kind). They are located up where we can see them instead of down on scroll wheel.
Either way, not sure why someone would buy an old car and then complain about the "tech" look and feel or performance. Get in a 2013 Acura TSX and behold Atari 2600 graphics!
You'll notice that he still hasn't replied to my 9:24AM post yesterday with URLs or anything backing up his claims. For all I know he has me blocked and didn't see it - I frankly don't give a damn. His constant trolling on the W204 based on his 4 year old non-US example with apparently a stunted options list is beyond old at this point.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Again, as a comparison, this is what I see on my screen. I don't see an issue at all. The track names display correctly as well as the album cover. You can also watch a dvd on the screen while in park if you're inclined to do so.
Then again I've transitioned away from CDs (700megs and physical media is too inconvenient) and instead use either my phone (bluetooth if left in the pocket or direct connection when charging) or an SDHC card (located below the rewind button) to play music or browse photos. So far I can validate that up to 32GB cards work (I don't have anything bigger to test yet), but I'm hoping to maybe play movies off this as well. However if copying music files is too inconvenient, you can also just stream from Pandora (automatically detects once I enter the car).
You can also display whatever is showing on the main screen to the center speedometer in the event your passenger is playing around with the main unit. (ex: music info, navigation directions including lanes, individual tire pressures, etc).
Then again I've transitioned away from CDs (700megs and physical media is too inconvenient) and instead use either my phone (bluetooth if left in the pocket or direct connection when charging) or an SDHC card (located below the rewind button) to play music or browse photos. So far I can validate that up to 32GB cards work (I don't have anything bigger to test yet), but I'm hoping to maybe play movies off this as well. However if copying music files is too inconvenient, you can also just stream from Pandora (automatically detects once I enter the car).
You can also display whatever is showing on the main screen to the center speedometer in the event your passenger is playing around with the main unit. (ex: music info, navigation directions including lanes, individual tire pressures, etc).
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Silicon Valley, California
Factory ordered 2012 MB C350 w/Dynamic Handling Package
Agreed. I was merely comparing differences with AcapulcoBill in that if he custom ordered his car to begin with, he probably wouldn't have any buyer's remorse today. I've learned from prior purchases, that if you get what you want from the very beginning, having a 10+ year relationship with the car goes by easy (or at the very least, never get the base model).
Although the final price may be equivalent to that of a new E350 with a P1 package, I honestly think I got great value in the C-class vs the other cars I've crossed shopped it with.
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From: Atlanta, GA
2008 C300 Sport 6 Speed Manual, 1953 Chevy Bel-Air, 2015 Audi allroad, 1963 Chevy Apache
Agreed. I was merely comparing differences with AcapulcoBill in that if he custom ordered his car to begin with, he probably wouldn't have any buyer's remorse today. I've learned from prior purchases, that if you get what you want from the very beginning, having a 10+ year relationship with the car goes by easy (or at the very least, never get the base model).
Although the final price may be equivalent to that of a new E350 with a P1 package, I honestly think I got great value in the C-class vs the other cars I've crossed shopped it with.
Although the final price may be equivalent to that of a new E350 with a P1 package, I honestly think I got great value in the C-class vs the other cars I've crossed shopped it with.
So I took the one car available with a stick with the thought that no matter how slick the tech was, it would be dated in a few years. I have had several times when I wished the interface, speakers, display were better but understand that it was my choice to drive off the lot with the car as equipped and I am actually quite happy...less stuff to break.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
We are all different. BiX & Parktronic are deal breakers for me. To get what I wanted in the CLK I ended up with heated seats, heated mirrors & heated screen & headlight washers. Not really needed in SA's mild climate but I got what I wanted including seat, mirror, column memory, NAV & HK Logic 7 sound.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 15, 2013 at 09:24 AM.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Acapulco Mexico
2010 C300 Sport
Actually there is NO spec'ing in Mexico. Only one combination of options come in each Class. If one wishes to wait 9 month and pay the expen$e of Designo, you can have it "your way".
Just a surprise that a 2003 E46 had so many tech features standard that a W204 lacks. BMW had iPod integration standard in some models from 2002.
Back on topic, how is it possible that MB invests... a billion Euros probably? - to tool up for what is supposed to be the world's most advanced transport, and do such a FAIL in hugely important items of daily use like the way-outdated NAV, frustrating COMAND, and "new tech" MB connectivity apps which just don't provide connectivity?
My children, although they all have Nav units in their cars, some quite sophisticated and ALL much more than any Merc offering, find it easier just to bark a destination in any way, shape or form into their Smartphones (I sometimes cant even understand what the are saying, its "newspeak" to me) and have yet to see one error in the hundreds of times I have been witness. No training required (or even possible apparently). So they have relegated the Nav screen to displaying something actually useful - like TorquePro broadcast from the cells, and leave the driving to their phones. Now THATs useful tech, retrofits GTR dash tech for $25 dollars.
Just a surprise that a 2003 E46 had so many tech features standard that a W204 lacks. BMW had iPod integration standard in some models from 2002.
Back on topic, how is it possible that MB invests... a billion Euros probably? - to tool up for what is supposed to be the world's most advanced transport, and do such a FAIL in hugely important items of daily use like the way-outdated NAV, frustrating COMAND, and "new tech" MB connectivity apps which just don't provide connectivity?
My children, although they all have Nav units in their cars, some quite sophisticated and ALL much more than any Merc offering, find it easier just to bark a destination in any way, shape or form into their Smartphones (I sometimes cant even understand what the are saying, its "newspeak" to me) and have yet to see one error in the hundreds of times I have been witness. No training required (or even possible apparently). So they have relegated the Nav screen to displaying something actually useful - like TorquePro broadcast from the cells, and leave the driving to their phones. Now THATs useful tech, retrofits GTR dash tech for $25 dollars.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Less clinical, more lush, and absolutely bristling with tech
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Germantown, MD/Rehoboth Beach, DE
2024 GLS450
This is part of why I don't understand why Bill keeps harping on how bad Mercedes' tech supposedly is...
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Indeed! To prevent this thread becoming bloated I suggest people Google "new S Class" & read the pages & pages of glowing reviews. Some even single out the Navigation for praise.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 15, 2013 at 10:44 AM.
