My findings with variant coding tweaks and throttle delay
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
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From: London ON Canada
2012 C300 4Matic Sport Sedan
One thing i forgot to mention Look on Kijiji or ebay maybe you can find your stuff on there!!! my cousins house got broken into they found all his stuff on kijiji toronto. it was nuts how it moved so fast to the GTA and was posted online the next day! he actually got 90% of his stuff back the rest insurance covered. ****ty situation
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
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2013 C250 Sport
Well unfortunately I won't be able to do this for anyone any time soon. My car was broken into last night and it just happened that I'd left it in my trunk, so my multiplexer is gone. Significant damage to my trunk lid and rear bumper, too. They used a crowbar. Someone knew it might be in there.
I'm surprised as locked down as these cars are it didn't sound any alarms. I was told my car couldn't be jacked up without the doors unlocked.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 701
Likes: 103
From: Ontario, Canada
2009 C63 AMG, 2010 C250 4Matic Sport
I'm surprised about the alarm too. The trunk lid needs replacing (my repair quote is at $5500 CAN for drivers door, trunk lid, bumper and all the necessary paint, thank god for insurance) and the locking mechanism was pried off. Very annoying.
marko, I'm working with my home insurance to get all the items stolen from my car replaced. I imagine I'll have a new multiplexer within the month, so I'll still be able to do some work for your friend.
marko, I'm working with my home insurance to get all the items stolen from my car replaced. I imagine I'll have a new multiplexer within the month, so I'll still be able to do some work for your friend.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 304
Likes: 75
2022 AMG GT 53, 2020 Sl450. Did drive 2018 S450
Well unfortunately I won't be able to do this for anyone any time soon. My car was broken into last night and it just happened that I'd left it in my trunk, so my multiplexer is gone. Significant damage to my trunk lid and rear bumper, too. They used a crowbar. Someone knew it might be in there.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,282
Likes: 57
2013 C250 Sport
I just dropped off these parameters to a shop with my VIN. The only concern they seemd to have was my model year. They aren't sure if this will work for 2012+ cars. Although I haven't seen anything to indicate face lift cars can't be coded. Their developer mode only goes to 2011. However, they guy seemed very aware of what I was wanting to accomplish.
It could just be my car is too new for many of these indy shops to have worked on. One place I visited the owner and his assistant were excited to take a look at the facelift changes. Funny as this is a previous gen now.
It could just be my car is too new for many of these indy shops to have worked on. One place I visited the owner and his assistant were excited to take a look at the facelift changes. Funny as this is a previous gen now.
Last edited by michail71; Apr 21, 2016 at 04:35 PM.
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From: Fredonia, WI
2012 E550 v8-Biturbo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,282
Likes: 57
2013 C250 Sport
You'd be in good shape at the shop by here since they don't seem familiar with 2012+. But I've had two shops mention the my model year as being a possible problem.
I'm also trying to get manual mode enabled too. That gets you M mode in the E/S cycle, possibly the AMG screen with speed, gears, oil temp, engine temp. From what I've experienced I think M mode sets up the throttle response to behave more like Funkwagen's setup.
I was originally quoted something like $240-$260 but that was just for manual mode coding. I forget exactly. Another shop said 1-2 hours of shop time but then said my can gateway wasn't compatible for adding manual. Which doesn't make any sense to me.
I figure all at once shouldn't add too much shop time but I'll also have to play with many variables all at once.
I'm also trying to get manual mode enabled too. That gets you M mode in the E/S cycle, possibly the AMG screen with speed, gears, oil temp, engine temp. From what I've experienced I think M mode sets up the throttle response to behave more like Funkwagen's setup.
I was originally quoted something like $240-$260 but that was just for manual mode coding. I forget exactly. Another shop said 1-2 hours of shop time but then said my can gateway wasn't compatible for adding manual. Which doesn't make any sense to me.
I figure all at once shouldn't add too much shop time but I'll also have to play with many variables all at once.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,739
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From: London ON Canada
2012 C300 4Matic Sport Sedan
Ya Funk offered to put the manual mode, but honestly i never drive using the shifter. It just doesn't feel the same without a clutch haha(and i hate the left to right shifting,it would probably better with the paddle shifting). but defiantly look into the variant coding thing he did my car is still very very very responsive. I don't think i could ever go back to having the throttle lag hahaha, it would just drive me nuts.
I'm waiting on your other thread to see how that goes for you. i might add that to mine if it all works out.
I'm waiting on your other thread to see how that goes for you. i might add that to mine if it all works out.
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 885
Likes: 57
From: PA
2019 E63s AMG
The only difference with 2013+ is probably that the ECU and parameters are not called the same due to different engine. Last Sunday I did this to user 'timsmerc' 08 C300 from Staten Island I believe it was. He noticed the difference right away, we will see if he posts.
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Joined: Nov 2015
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2013 C250 Sport
The last shop got back to me and said their system wasn't compatible with my model year.
Just by chance I was out driving and I and saw an "Autobahn something or other shop". I pulled in to talk to them. This time things seemed a little different. It was a much smaller indy shop but the guy seemed much more knowledgeable about programming. He looked over all the parameters I wanted I knew what they were for. So I didn't have to explain to him why I wanted to make these changes where as other shops had a bit of a WTF reaction.
He was ready to do it on the spot but his license had just expired and he was waiting back on the company to send him a renewal and software update for his system.
I think he may even own a 2013 C-Class. It was hard to tell as we had a slight language barrier.
With any luck he will do the programming for me this weekend or early next week for $89 per hour. Which is about $20-$40 less per hour than some of the other shops.
So it seems the ability for indy shops to handle software can vary a considerable amount. Many also don't seem up on late models. But whoever gets this will be my future mechanic.
Just by chance I was out driving and I and saw an "Autobahn something or other shop". I pulled in to talk to them. This time things seemed a little different. It was a much smaller indy shop but the guy seemed much more knowledgeable about programming. He looked over all the parameters I wanted I knew what they were for. So I didn't have to explain to him why I wanted to make these changes where as other shops had a bit of a WTF reaction.
He was ready to do it on the spot but his license had just expired and he was waiting back on the company to send him a renewal and software update for his system.
I think he may even own a 2013 C-Class. It was hard to tell as we had a slight language barrier.
With any luck he will do the programming for me this weekend or early next week for $89 per hour. Which is about $20-$40 less per hour than some of the other shops.
So it seems the ability for indy shops to handle software can vary a considerable amount. Many also don't seem up on late models. But whoever gets this will be my future mechanic.
Last edited by michail71; Apr 22, 2016 at 01:46 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
W204
Hello! Tell me, please. As you walked ECU recording protection system . In my sim271de20 is this protection . Vediamo read sim271de20, but you can not change the settings , make the variant coding , I can not . What should I do? Help me please . I also can not make the variant coding and SAMR SAMF. They do not open in vediamo.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
W204
EDIT: Important, but for diesel engine w204s, the lastschlagdaempfung parameter may already be disabled.
This post assumes you have some knowledge of the software used. I'm not entirely comfortable making a full walk-through for beginners, as this is potentially risky.
After spending quite some time tinkering with and learning about DAS/Xentry/Vediamo, I believe I've almost completely solved my issues with throttle lag on my car. Since owning the car I've noticed that depending on how the car is driven, like through heavy traffic or on country roads, the throttle response to the gas pedal does not seem to stay consistent. For example, if I start off driving the car in stop and go traffic, the pedal seems to become "lazy"; next time I mash on the gas, there's a very noticeable delay in throttle input and sometimes the car doesn't shift down when it should, either in C or S mode. It was quite annoying, and on a few occasions, kind of risky. Aside from that there'd be a very noticeable difference in the way the car performed on a day to day basis, sometimes it felt sluggish, and other times it felt pretty quick. I really didn't like how it was unpredictable.
This is discussed in a threads like this, and it appears that ECU adaptations are the cause for this. I'm sure the adaptations would be effective in some cases, but where I live and how I drive, the adaptation process seems to have a difficult time calibrating the throttle response, and the result has been pretty undesirable to me. It seems others have the same issue, and have tried solving it doing the simple TCU reset. This reset does work, very temporarily. Every time I tried it, it'd help for a few drives but then it'd revert to sluggishness. I went over 10,000km after pulling the car battery and doing the TCU reset to see if the car needed a long time to "learn", and it did improve, but the inconsistency/unpredictability of the throttle input, and delay, still remained an issue.
I'm very glad to have spent the money getting a diagnostic multiplexer, as it's allowed me to learn quite a lot about how these cars operate. On top of that, I've done a bunch of tweaking to get things to how I'd like. If you have access to one, or know someone who does, the following tweaks have solved these problems for me. This could likely be accomplished in Xentry rather than Vediamo, but I was unable to get access to the necessary settings through Xentry myself. I Please note, I have no idea the effect this will have on warranty, as my car is completely out of any warranty..
MrScott52, a very helpful member of Benzworld and also possibly MBworld, posted a youtube guide on how to enable a few parameters to increase responsiveness of a diesel variant; these tweaks seem to make a difference with my 2.5L M272 w204 as well. (I'll link the video in a following reply.)
Attached below are the necessary parameter changes for the ME 9.7 ECU in Vediamo, which solved my issues with throttle delay (many listed in MrScott52's video), and here are the descriptions of each:
#1 (Lastschlagdaempfung) This is the most important one. This parameter seems to be the main culprit for the inconsistent feeling throttle response and sluggishness, and I believe it causes the wonky throttle body adaptations which I find so awful. Disabling it has removed most, if not all delay in throttle input. It is referred to as "load-reversal damping" in Vediamo (german), but it is the "Throttle Change Damping" parameter in Xentry. I changed this parameter about a month after the others, and it definitely had the most significant impact on throttle response, and now the throttle is very consistent in performance. I believe this parameter is more directly related to the actual throttle body than the gas pedal, unlike the next parameter.
#2 (Pedalkennlinie) This is the pedal curve parameter. My car had KLD4 as default. You can play with this, and possibly leave it at KLD4. However, I changed it to KLD2. From what I understand, KLD2 is meant for cars with a manual transmission, and as such, I'd expect the pedal curve to be the most "natural" feeling to the driver. In contrast, I believe KLD4 is more responsive, but "jumpier" (more erratic in terms of throttle input). Combining KLD4 with disabling the throttle change damping parameter may be undesirable in terms of comfort/consistency.
#3 (Momentenbegrenzung) This is the torque limit parameter. The main effect I've observed from disabling this is that the car doesn't reduce throttle/torque as much while cornering anymore, and the car seems to accelerate slightly faster from a standstill than before. May not be necessary to fix throttle delay, but I find it favourable.
#4 (Momentenerhoehung Getriebe) *This may already be set to the MSG option* This parameter is supplementary to #3. Like MrScott describes in his video, it allows the engine ECU to monitor torque output and send it to the transmission, but keeps it within safe/comfortable limits. I find this parameter to improve gear shifts very slightly; torque input and acceleration remains very steady throughout gear shifts. I believe it very slightly improves acceleration, even compared to only having the torque limiter disabled. Do not change this to the GSG setting. Doing so resulted in some very uncomfortable shifting. I'm not sure if there'd be a long term effect on the gearbox here, so just don't as a precaution. The option highlighted in black is the default setting - the ECU is not allowed to increase torque to the gearbox depending on measurement.
With all these parameters changed, I have my car performing the way I'd like it to. It's performance remains far more consistent, there's significantly less throttle lag, and it does actually accelerate faster (I've measured), but only very slightly. Starting off in C mode on an incline also no longer feels like as much of a strain. Now, all of this being said, if you have the tools and such to do this yourself, or know someone who can, you do so at your own risk. I've driven over 10,000km already without any negative effects of this, but I just don't want to be responsible if anything goes wrong. I can't imagine anything would, though. If you are willing to do this yourself, please be aware that there are many ecu parameters that are difficult to understand, and modifying them at all could potentially cause irreversible damage. I do not recommend making adjustments to any other unknown parameters without thoroughly researching their function and/or purpose.
p.s the screenshots were taken in simulation mode, I didn't think to screenshot anything while I was actually connected to my car. The highlighted values are still of course relevant.
This post assumes you have some knowledge of the software used. I'm not entirely comfortable making a full walk-through for beginners, as this is potentially risky.
After spending quite some time tinkering with and learning about DAS/Xentry/Vediamo, I believe I've almost completely solved my issues with throttle lag on my car. Since owning the car I've noticed that depending on how the car is driven, like through heavy traffic or on country roads, the throttle response to the gas pedal does not seem to stay consistent. For example, if I start off driving the car in stop and go traffic, the pedal seems to become "lazy"; next time I mash on the gas, there's a very noticeable delay in throttle input and sometimes the car doesn't shift down when it should, either in C or S mode. It was quite annoying, and on a few occasions, kind of risky. Aside from that there'd be a very noticeable difference in the way the car performed on a day to day basis, sometimes it felt sluggish, and other times it felt pretty quick. I really didn't like how it was unpredictable.
This is discussed in a threads like this, and it appears that ECU adaptations are the cause for this. I'm sure the adaptations would be effective in some cases, but where I live and how I drive, the adaptation process seems to have a difficult time calibrating the throttle response, and the result has been pretty undesirable to me. It seems others have the same issue, and have tried solving it doing the simple TCU reset. This reset does work, very temporarily. Every time I tried it, it'd help for a few drives but then it'd revert to sluggishness. I went over 10,000km after pulling the car battery and doing the TCU reset to see if the car needed a long time to "learn", and it did improve, but the inconsistency/unpredictability of the throttle input, and delay, still remained an issue.
I'm very glad to have spent the money getting a diagnostic multiplexer, as it's allowed me to learn quite a lot about how these cars operate. On top of that, I've done a bunch of tweaking to get things to how I'd like. If you have access to one, or know someone who does, the following tweaks have solved these problems for me. This could likely be accomplished in Xentry rather than Vediamo, but I was unable to get access to the necessary settings through Xentry myself. I Please note, I have no idea the effect this will have on warranty, as my car is completely out of any warranty..
MrScott52, a very helpful member of Benzworld and also possibly MBworld, posted a youtube guide on how to enable a few parameters to increase responsiveness of a diesel variant; these tweaks seem to make a difference with my 2.5L M272 w204 as well. (I'll link the video in a following reply.)
Attached below are the necessary parameter changes for the ME 9.7 ECU in Vediamo, which solved my issues with throttle delay (many listed in MrScott52's video), and here are the descriptions of each:
#1 (Lastschlagdaempfung) This is the most important one. This parameter seems to be the main culprit for the inconsistent feeling throttle response and sluggishness, and I believe it causes the wonky throttle body adaptations which I find so awful. Disabling it has removed most, if not all delay in throttle input. It is referred to as "load-reversal damping" in Vediamo (german), but it is the "Throttle Change Damping" parameter in Xentry. I changed this parameter about a month after the others, and it definitely had the most significant impact on throttle response, and now the throttle is very consistent in performance. I believe this parameter is more directly related to the actual throttle body than the gas pedal, unlike the next parameter.
#2 (Pedalkennlinie) This is the pedal curve parameter. My car had KLD4 as default. You can play with this, and possibly leave it at KLD4. However, I changed it to KLD2. From what I understand, KLD2 is meant for cars with a manual transmission, and as such, I'd expect the pedal curve to be the most "natural" feeling to the driver. In contrast, I believe KLD4 is more responsive, but "jumpier" (more erratic in terms of throttle input). Combining KLD4 with disabling the throttle change damping parameter may be undesirable in terms of comfort/consistency.
#3 (Momentenbegrenzung) This is the torque limit parameter. The main effect I've observed from disabling this is that the car doesn't reduce throttle/torque as much while cornering anymore, and the car seems to accelerate slightly faster from a standstill than before. May not be necessary to fix throttle delay, but I find it favourable.
#4 (Momentenerhoehung Getriebe) *This may already be set to the MSG option* This parameter is supplementary to #3. Like MrScott describes in his video, it allows the engine ECU to monitor torque output and send it to the transmission, but keeps it within safe/comfortable limits. I find this parameter to improve gear shifts very slightly; torque input and acceleration remains very steady throughout gear shifts. I believe it very slightly improves acceleration, even compared to only having the torque limiter disabled. Do not change this to the GSG setting. Doing so resulted in some very uncomfortable shifting. I'm not sure if there'd be a long term effect on the gearbox here, so just don't as a precaution. The option highlighted in black is the default setting - the ECU is not allowed to increase torque to the gearbox depending on measurement.
With all these parameters changed, I have my car performing the way I'd like it to. It's performance remains far more consistent, there's significantly less throttle lag, and it does actually accelerate faster (I've measured), but only very slightly. Starting off in C mode on an incline also no longer feels like as much of a strain. Now, all of this being said, if you have the tools and such to do this yourself, or know someone who can, you do so at your own risk. I've driven over 10,000km already without any negative effects of this, but I just don't want to be responsible if anything goes wrong. I can't imagine anything would, though. If you are willing to do this yourself, please be aware that there are many ecu parameters that are difficult to understand, and modifying them at all could potentially cause irreversible damage. I do not recommend making adjustments to any other unknown parameters without thoroughly researching their function and/or purpose.
p.s the screenshots were taken in simulation mode, I didn't think to screenshot anything while I was actually connected to my car. The highlighted values are still of course relevant.
Hello! Tell me, please. As you walked ECU recording protection system . In my sim271de20 is this protection . Vediamo read sim271de20, but you can not change the settings , make the variant coding , I can not . What should I do? Help me please . I also can not make the variant coding and SAMR SAMF. They do not open in vediamo.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 701
Likes: 103
From: Ontario, Canada
2009 C63 AMG, 2010 C250 4Matic Sport
Hello! Tell me, please. As you walked ECU recording protection system . In my sim271de20 is this protection . Vediamo read sim271de20, but you can not change the settings , make the variant coding , I can not . What should I do? Help me please . I also can not make the variant coding and SAMR SAMF. They do not open in vediamo.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 120
From: London ON Canada
2012 C300 4Matic Sport Sedan
I will have to come visit you once i get the AMG steering wheel and install it. That manual mode with paddle shifting will be an amazing upgrade.
Ya people are missing out big time. The 4 Matic pulls hard it actually kinda throws you in your seat a little hahaha.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 538
Likes: 89
From: Hollywood, CA
W209, W124
It's funny, I have a 2005 CLK and I recently responded to a thread about 722.9 trans vs. 722.6 and I was complaining about how long it takes from pushing the GO pedal to anything happening.
I have a C3 clone that I used to set up Comand and remove top speed limitation on my car. Sadly, the other half got sick of seeing it in front hall closet and boxed it up, now buried somewhere in garage. Hope to find the time soon and dig it out and try this on my CLK.
Basically, every time I push the gas, it feels like I'm sending a request in to a room full of German engineers who are trying to second guess me. As a youth (few years back) I had a '68 SS396 and a '79 6.6 Litre Trans Am. On paper the CLK smokes either of them, but it has always lacked that "alive" feeling that the previous cars I mentioned had. It really feels like it waits 2 or 3 seconds tp decide if you really meant it when you pushed the gas pedal.
I will try in next month or two to dig out the C3, hope no parts got lost.
Thanks for your trailblazing !
I have a C3 clone that I used to set up Comand and remove top speed limitation on my car. Sadly, the other half got sick of seeing it in front hall closet and boxed it up, now buried somewhere in garage. Hope to find the time soon and dig it out and try this on my CLK.
Basically, every time I push the gas, it feels like I'm sending a request in to a room full of German engineers who are trying to second guess me. As a youth (few years back) I had a '68 SS396 and a '79 6.6 Litre Trans Am. On paper the CLK smokes either of them, but it has always lacked that "alive" feeling that the previous cars I mentioned had. It really feels like it waits 2 or 3 seconds tp decide if you really meant it when you pushed the gas pedal.
I will try in next month or two to dig out the C3, hope no parts got lost.
Thanks for your trailblazing !
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Socal
2014 C250 Sport
Has anyone succeeded with this on a facelift sim271 C250? I have 0 capability of doing this myself but would visit a shop/reward a member handsomely to have it done if it can be. I've tried a TCU flash which is quite obviously just a transmission adaptations reset device, the transmission goes back to its old habits after driving in traffic like always. Looking for something that can permanently alter/remove the way the car adapts.
