Hmmmm....interesting find! :(
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Hmmmm....interesting find! :(
Can anyone explain this? Manufactured by Hyundai Mobis ! Why not just buy the whole car..Genesis!Wonder how much more of the Mercedes comes from Korea? OUCH!!!
Last edited by Brian McL; May 18, 2019 at 12:17 PM.
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Mercedes is selling a terrible product with bad customer service, and has been since the late 1990's. Started with bad sheet metal and cheap interior finishes in the W210's to the M272 V6 engine with the balancing shaft issues and the M273 V8's with similiar problems that cost thousands to repair. Mercedes had to be sued to even consider compensation for owners who spent thousands on repairs. The M276 engine has oil pooling in the air filter box which Mercedes says "that's normal" WHAT? And all you 4matic sedan drivers pray your transfer case doesn't develop a hum 'cause that's a bearing failing that requires a new transmission. Then there is the front driveshaft from the transfer case, it's front U joint gets baked by the catalytic convert and fails with an almighty bang only to take out the tranny oil pan, the cat and O2 sensor as it flails around . Amazing oversight considering they've been making 4matic's for years. And don't pass these off as "all car manufacturers have problems"...Yeah, but when you pay the huge premium you do for the three pointed star you expect a better product. At least you use to be able to. Don't know why they have transitioned to being just another car company but they have. Never use to be like that ! I'm old enough to remember when to own a Mercedes was something you did with pride. Now most owners can hardly wait till their lease is up. I have three of them in my garage spanning 1992 - 1997 - 2014 and the differences are dramatic. I'll never sell the 1992 (last of the real Mercedes). The 1997 is headed to the wreckers it's so full of rust and 2014 is being traded on a Genesis. Yeah....the same company that Mercedes is confident enough in to put their components in the Mercedes product...GEEZ.
Last edited by Brian McL; May 18, 2019 at 11:38 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2018
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From: Out Towards Palm Springs
2019 GLC 350e
well lets not forget that Aisin suppose a lot of transmission to everyone...and Takata made airbags for everyone. It would literally be impossible to produce every part by yourself. This is SOP in every car company.
I can also sight apple using Qualcom modem chips and screens from Samsung.
The important part in these deals is the buy specifying what it expects the part to handle.
I can also sight apple using Qualcom modem chips and screens from Samsung.
The important part in these deals is the buy specifying what it expects the part to handle.
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Chaz, I get your point but are making mine. Mercedes is, presumably, sourcing from companies that produce a product to their (Mercedes) specifications.
But why would they invite a Korean company to bid on supplying a part(s) to them? Obviously they have concluded that Hyundai can produce a product that meets their standard.
Oddly enough Hyundai also makes whole cars made from the same parts that Mercedes has decided meets their high standards.
Aisin and Takata don't make cars.
As a side note....Mercedes should stop making their own transmissions and buy from Aisin. They would have a lot less problems if they did.
But why would they invite a Korean company to bid on supplying a part(s) to them? Obviously they have concluded that Hyundai can produce a product that meets their standard.
Oddly enough Hyundai also makes whole cars made from the same parts that Mercedes has decided meets their high standards.
Aisin and Takata don't make cars.
As a side note....Mercedes should stop making their own transmissions and buy from Aisin. They would have a lot less problems if they did.
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From: Milwaukee, WI USA
2012 C300 4Matic
Mercedes is selling a terrible product with bad customer service, and has been since the late 1990's. Started with bad sheet metal and cheap interior finishes in the W210's to the M272 V6 engine with the balancing shaft issues and the M273 V8's with similiar problems that cost thousands to repair. Mercedes had to be sued to even consider compensation for owners who spent thousands on repairs. The M276 engine has oil pooling in the air filter box which Mercedes says "that's normal" WHAT? And all you 4matic sedan drivers pray your transfer case doesn't develop a hum 'cause that's a bearing failing that requires a new transmission. Then there is the front driveshaft from the transfer case, it's front U joint gets baked by the catalytic convert and fails with an almighty bang only to take out the tranny oil pan, the cat and O2 sensor as it flails around . Amazing oversight considering they've been making 4matic's for years. And don't pass these off as "all car manufacturers have problems"...Yeah, but when you pay the huge premium you do for the three pointed star you expect a better product. At least you use to be able to. Don't know why they have transitioned to being just another car company but they have. Never use to be like that ! I'm old enough to remember when to own a Mercedes was something you did with pride. Now most owners can hardly wait till their lease is up. I have three of them in my garage spanning 1992 - 1997 - 2014 and the differences are dramatic. I'll never sell the 1992 (last of the real Mercedes). The 1997 is headed to the wreckers it's so full of rust and 2014 is being traded on a Genesis. Yeah....the same company that Mercedes is confident enough in to put their components in the Mercedes product...GEEZ.
And were you expecting that every part of the car was made by Mercedes? That wasn't even being done in the Golden Age of the early 1990s and before.
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Well, that is the reason for my discontent and disappointment with Mercedes. I have owned a Mercedes, or two, since 1968 and I have seen them chip away at the quality since the mid 90's and it is terrible. It's terrible that they are charging like it was the quality product they use to produce and capitalizing on that reputation, which has diminished. Fortunately, I work on all my cars and have managed to keep them on the road. The 400E is a great car, the 97 W210 is the first of the garbage but the 2008 C240 is a nice car to drive..once the balancing shaft was replaced. Now I'm holding my breather just waiting for the transfer case to fail. That car will be replaced by a Genesis. The E320 is headed for the scrap dealer and the 400E will stay in the garage. I will never buy another Mercedes.
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2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
Well, you'd probably be extremely dissapointed to find out that the Mercedes X-class is a Nissan.
Fact of the matter is, quite a few car makers are struggling, but not Mercedes. I'm sure at the end of the day the decisions they make (for the most part) are sound; if you can't handle having one 'part' made from Hyundai, enjoy having a whole car made from them.
Fact of the matter is, quite a few car makers are struggling, but not Mercedes. I'm sure at the end of the day the decisions they make (for the most part) are sound; if you can't handle having one 'part' made from Hyundai, enjoy having a whole car made from them.
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From: Chicago area
2015 E400 and 2015 GLK350
Folks - Mercedes, as well as ALL of the other automakers, purchase parts from anywhere. Their one single driver is COST. Cheap is good, cheaper is better, period.
For the last 20+ years, I have worked for a supplier of component parts to the auto industry, and for the last 10 years at least, all they hammer on is cost. Everything else is second in consideration.
For the last 20+ years, I have worked for a supplier of component parts to the auto industry, and for the last 10 years at least, all they hammer on is cost. Everything else is second in consideration.
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2022 EQS 580 4MATIC Sedan, 2010 C-Class C350 4MATIC
He made the same post in a different thread and when he didn’t receive the answers he was looking for, decided to make his own little thread for the main purpose to bring up Mercedes using a Hyundai part in his second post. It was a totally forced post just to whine for something that has been happening since the beginning of car manufacturing.
If he can make the outrageous leap from “If Mercedes uses an insignificant part from a competitor, the competitors whole car line must be better than a Mercedes!!!!111!!”, there not much reason to listen to why he thinks that, it’s going to sounds just as crazy.
His posts are nothing but an old man yelling at the clouds and needing someone to pat him on the back and let him know things will be OK.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
C 250
I am thoroughly confused. You are complaining about a Hyundai part in your car and then go on to state you are going to buy a Hyundai... if the whole Hyundai car is good enough, then why are you complaining about one small Hyundai part in your Mercedes? The part isn't good enough, but the whole car is? I'm confused...
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From: Milwaukee, WI USA
2012 C300 4Matic
It always surprises me when I read something about how an item is automatically thought bad or inferior just because it is made overseas. That might have been true back in the 1960s, but since then the world is a different place. Not saying you can't find a cheap knockoff of something, but factories around the world owned or used by global companies are as modern and up to date as anything in the United States. Modern equipment, quality controls and supply chain vetting are extensive. Parts are built to exact specifications. I have been overseas in China and Vietnam numerous times and if some people would see the factories and industrial parks and the scale of them they would be shocked. The same is true for Mexico as well. Now days, it isn't WHERE something is manufactured. Quality can be high anywhere with the proper controls in place.
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2015 E400
I am thoroughly confused. You are complaining about a Hyundai part in your car and then go on to state you are going to buy a Hyundai... if the whole Hyundai car is good enough, then why are you complaining about one small Hyundai part in your Mercedes? The part isn't good enough, but the whole car is? I'm confused...
So many people complain about MB quality going downhill, I've had 3 E-classes since 2003, I haven't really experienced it. Sure, there were some issues, but they were all very reliable. As much as I joke about the 'stealership', all my cars have been dealer-maintained during the original warranty period (and even afterwards) and on schedule. My experience has been great with my local MB dealer, even though I never purchased from them. They always treated me with respect and took care of my concerns. I can't say the same for dealers of other makes I've owned, and I doubt Hyundai dealers are even close to matching the service level of MB dealers, though some day, they might.
In my experience, build-quality seems much better than any other car in their class and era. However, I think a lot has to do with how vehicles are maintained, as I know friends with MB, Cadillacs, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. that have had nightmares, but most of those were from owner-neglect/abuse more than anything else.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
C 250
How will your reaction be when you purchase your new Genesis and find it has Mitsubishi parts in it? I think this is a petty thing to be upset about. Even if you pay a "premium" for a "premium" brand, they are going to source parts from other manufacturers. I know Mercedes used ZF transmission in their cars for many, many years. They do not make those transmissions. In fact, I bet your E class that you are happy with is equipped with one of those ZF transmissions. Maybe get rid of that car too? Tell you what, since it isn't 100% MB, I'll buy it from you just to get the faker car out of your hair?
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LS400
Mercedes is selling a terrible product with bad customer service, and has been since the late 1990's. Started with bad sheet metal and cheap interior finishes in the W210's to the M272 V6 engine with the balancing shaft issues and the M273 V8's with similiar problems that cost thousands to repair. Mercedes had to be sued to even consider compensation for owners who spent thousands on repairs. The M276 engine has oil pooling in the air filter box which Mercedes says "that's normal" WHAT? And all you 4matic sedan drivers pray your transfer case doesn't develop a hum 'cause that's a bearing failing that requires a new transmission. Then there is the front driveshaft from the transfer case, it's front U joint gets baked by the catalytic convert and fails with an almighty bang only to take out the tranny oil pan, the cat and O2 sensor as it flails around . Amazing oversight considering they've been making 4matic's for years. And don't pass these off as "all car manufacturers have problems"...Yeah, but when you pay the huge premium you do for the three pointed star you expect a better product. At least you use to be able to. Don't know why they have transitioned to being just another car company but they have. Never use to be like that ! I'm old enough to remember when to own a Mercedes was something you did with pride. Now most owners can hardly wait till their lease is up. I have three of them in my garage spanning 1992 - 1997 - 2014 and the differences are dramatic. I'll never sell the 1992 (last of the real Mercedes). The 1997 is headed to the wreckers it's so full of rust and 2014 is being traded on a Genesis. Yeah....the same company that Mercedes is confident enough in to put their components in the Mercedes product...GEEZ.
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Mercedes w204 4matic sport
I changed my air filter after 20k and there was no oil, but I don’t do short trips. Carbon buildup has a lot to do with how the car is driven overall. I’m sure when the OP’s new Hyundai starts rusting after the first winter he will be thrilled. My w204 has held up great finishing it’s 3rd winter with me.
Quality has given way to cost, because making cars is a lot more expensive then it used to. At the same time people don’t want to pay the higher prices so car makers have no choice but to cut down every cost they can to meet standards and sell cars. cheap plastic interiors, fake wood, less R&D, poor ride, etc... thing is this, people want safer cars, and more useless crap/gadgets because that’s what everyone talks about, but cry about price being too high... This is why I call all the new cars coming out throw away cars for the most part, because they only perform acceptable while under warranty, then it’s your problem, and expensive! More people lease now because of that, and they lease cars above their means because they think a lease is cheaper. After the lease the dearer either does a CPO on the car, or dumps it in an auction where used car dealers buy the piece of junk and then they sell it like it’s a good car lol...
i think the 204 is one of the sweet spot cars, it’s got problems but for the most part it’s not that bad and is a really nice car!
Quality has given way to cost, because making cars is a lot more expensive then it used to. At the same time people don’t want to pay the higher prices so car makers have no choice but to cut down every cost they can to meet standards and sell cars. cheap plastic interiors, fake wood, less R&D, poor ride, etc... thing is this, people want safer cars, and more useless crap/gadgets because that’s what everyone talks about, but cry about price being too high... This is why I call all the new cars coming out throw away cars for the most part, because they only perform acceptable while under warranty, then it’s your problem, and expensive! More people lease now because of that, and they lease cars above their means because they think a lease is cheaper. After the lease the dearer either does a CPO on the car, or dumps it in an auction where used car dealers buy the piece of junk and then they sell it like it’s a good car lol...
i think the 204 is one of the sweet spot cars, it’s got problems but for the most part it’s not that bad and is a really nice car!
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From: Milwaukee, WI USA
2012 C300 4Matic
And its from all the outsourcing to other country's, some country's know all they have to do is get their junk out there, and never worry about having to warrantee it. The only way they take it back is in the scrap boat, to melt down and make more junk parts from. And is why there are such problems as soft or inferior chain sprockets and other such things. Its the consumer that gets stuck with junk, and not cheap junk at that.
No car manufactuer (and a lot of other industries with a lot of components, especially electrical) could afford to build EVERY part themselves. You have any idea what a car would cost if that were true? Outsourcing has been going on for decades.
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He’s just spouting nonsense.
He made the same post in a different thread and when he didn’t receive the answers he was looking for, decided to make his own little thread for the main purpose to bring up Mercedes using a Hyundai part in his second post. It was a totally forced post just to whine for something that has been happening since the beginning of car manufacturing.
If he can make the outrageous leap from “If Mercedes uses an insignificant part from a competitor, the competitors whole car line must be better than a Mercedes!!!!111!!”, there not much reason to listen to why he thinks that, it’s going to sounds just as crazy.
His posts are nothing but an old man yelling at the clouds and needing someone to pat him on the back and let him know things will be OK.
He made the same post in a different thread and when he didn’t receive the answers he was looking for, decided to make his own little thread for the main purpose to bring up Mercedes using a Hyundai part in his second post. It was a totally forced post just to whine for something that has been happening since the beginning of car manufacturing.
If he can make the outrageous leap from “If Mercedes uses an insignificant part from a competitor, the competitors whole car line must be better than a Mercedes!!!!111!!”, there not much reason to listen to why he thinks that, it’s going to sounds just as crazy.
His posts are nothing but an old man yelling at the clouds and needing someone to pat him on the back and let him know things will be OK.
Wow...I guess you told me! Let me just hop up on the cross so you can drive the other nail in! You sound just like so many elected officials blindly following the lies of a flawed and false prophet because they are afraid to think for themselves and read the writing on the wall ! "All hail the three pointed star....or is that hail to the chief ?" You're living in the past son !
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 848
Likes: 87
From: Milwaukee, WI USA
2012 C300 4Matic
I changed my air filter after 20k and there was no oil, but I don’t do short trips. Carbon buildup has a lot to do with how the car is driven overall. I’m sure when the OP’s new Hyundai starts rusting after the first winter he will be thrilled. My w204 has held up great finishing it’s 3rd winter with me.
Quality has given way to cost, because making cars is a lot more expensive then it used to. At the same time people don’t want to pay the higher prices so car makers have no choice but to cut down every cost they can to meet standards and sell cars. cheap plastic interiors, fake wood, less R&D, poor ride, etc... thing is this, people want safer cars, and more useless crap/gadgets because that’s what everyone talks about, but cry about price being too high... This is why I call all the new cars coming out throw away cars for the most part, because they only perform acceptable while under warranty, then it’s your problem, and expensive! More people lease now because of that, and they lease cars above their means because they think a lease is cheaper. After the lease the dearer either does a CPO on the car, or dumps it in an auction where used car dealers buy the piece of junk and then they sell it like it’s a good car lol...
i think the 204 is one of the sweet spot cars, it’s got problems but for the most part it’s not that bad and is a really nice car!
Quality has given way to cost, because making cars is a lot more expensive then it used to. At the same time people don’t want to pay the higher prices so car makers have no choice but to cut down every cost they can to meet standards and sell cars. cheap plastic interiors, fake wood, less R&D, poor ride, etc... thing is this, people want safer cars, and more useless crap/gadgets because that’s what everyone talks about, but cry about price being too high... This is why I call all the new cars coming out throw away cars for the most part, because they only perform acceptable while under warranty, then it’s your problem, and expensive! More people lease now because of that, and they lease cars above their means because they think a lease is cheaper. After the lease the dearer either does a CPO on the car, or dumps it in an auction where used car dealers buy the piece of junk and then they sell it like it’s a good car lol...
i think the 204 is one of the sweet spot cars, it’s got problems but for the most part it’s not that bad and is a really nice car!
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Mercedes w204 4matic sport
All cars are built to a price point. I can't say I agree that cars only perform acceptably while under warranty. Maintenance needs to be kept up and if that is done, your chances are much higher the car will last for a long time. No car is ever trouble free and almost every make and model has some quirks unique to them (see ESL issue in the earlier W204 cars, for example). They are much more complex because of all the electroncs and such. On the other hand, you can monitor almost everything a car is doing, making troubleshooting a problem much easier than years ago. Some of the expense when something goes wrong is because every available space is utilized under a hood to help with weight, MPG and safety. So, to get at a $20 would require $500 in labor to access it. On the other hand, look at the MPG numbers cars get today vs. the power they generate. You can get a 400 horsepower car that can get 25MPG on the highway. All of that complexity is what allows that to happen. When you think about it, right now is kind of a golden age in the car industry when it comes to power and miles per gallon. Years ago if a car reached 100K in miles it was living on borrowed time, even if well maintained. Rust issues were quite common after a few years. Today cars can be reliable well over 200K if maintained and still look like new on the outside. Are they expensive? Yes, but cars were always expensive. Can they be frustrating at times? Of course, and they always will be. It is just the expectations of what is reliable changes over time. Look at oil changes. Back in teh '50s they didn't even use oil filters. You had to change the oil like every 1,000 miles. Today the interval could be 10K. Same with spark plugs and on and on.
cars are a lot safer, that is true. But that cost takes away from other parts of the car. When I get a loaner I can’t wait to get out. The ride sucks, and the car feels cheap compared to the 204.
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From: Milwaukee, WI USA
2012 C300 4Matic
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head: peope are less inclined to spend money fix minor things, which leads to neglect and maintenance put off or never done. I think another thing is a lot of people juts don't keep their cars as long as years ago, so they start neglecting them from the start. With leases being so popular and the instant gratification having the newest and brightest shiny thing out there, people care about today and if a transmission fluid change is put off, what do I care, I will be getting rid of it soon.
As for the "cheap" look and feel of some cars today I would think a lot of that is driven by the target customer and the price point, along with having to save as much weight as possible. A lot more customers care more about having the best sound system than superior driving dynamics or a bank vault feel when you close the door. With all the parts that go into a modern car and all the electronics involved, I still marvel that they work as consistently as they do, even in adverse weather. I remember in teh carburated days when winter came, every car had a slighty different way it liked to be started when cold. You pump the gas pedal one time too many and it would be flooded and wouldn't start. Too little and you have to crank it too much and the battery would discharge quickly. Today, it can be -20F and you hop in the car and just turn the key and away you go.
As for the "cheap" look and feel of some cars today I would think a lot of that is driven by the target customer and the price point, along with having to save as much weight as possible. A lot more customers care more about having the best sound system than superior driving dynamics or a bank vault feel when you close the door. With all the parts that go into a modern car and all the electronics involved, I still marvel that they work as consistently as they do, even in adverse weather. I remember in teh carburated days when winter came, every car had a slighty different way it liked to be started when cold. You pump the gas pedal one time too many and it would be flooded and wouldn't start. Too little and you have to crank it too much and the battery would discharge quickly. Today, it can be -20F and you hop in the car and just turn the key and away you go.
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Posts: 378
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From: Canada
2022 EQS 580 4MATIC Sedan, 2010 C-Class C350 4MATIC
Wow...I guess you told me! Let me just hop up on the cross so you can drive the other nail in! You sound just like so many elected officials blindly following the lies of a flawed and false prophet because they are afraid to think for themselves and read the writing on the wall ! "All hail the three pointed star....or is that hail to the chief ?" You're living in the past son !
I was correct that you came in here purely for the sake of *****ing about nothing. You’re trying to convince yourself about your next purchase, a Genesis, because you saw it was the #1 rated car.
Now who's not thinking for themselves? You’re just blindly following the masses to purchase what they’re telling you to purchase.
I was also correct when I said your post was the equivalent to an old man yelling at the clouds because you’ve done it once again. Your whole post (quoted above) was just some nonsensical rant.
Last edited by Xzero; May 31, 2019 at 10:36 PM.
