Jon@BMS

It depends what is actually different on the 450. If it's just a mild software increase, then there won't be as much left on the table for us to add via aftermarket tuning. But if they change the turbos for higher flow units. Then things could get more exciting with the 450.

TopGun32

couple of things I noticed about this engine...

1) intake boxes and piping is awfully narrow and small. To the point MB seems to deliberately is trying to limit the airflow.. better design piping to the airboxes will yield some good results.

2) I have not checked about the carbo filters yet.. but would be a good items to remove

3) Mild level power is strong.. but anything over 4000RPM is not very impressive in stock form. With time I think tuners will be able to find hidden power in that section. Feels like the engine was tuned for torque applications, say ML400 or GLE.

4) S and S+ settings are very good compared to my E coupe. Torque braking around 2000 rpms to me its when the c400 can dip into low 4's with a mild tune. I won't go into much detail but let's say I'm helping out a local tuner on initial data logging. With a few more lbs of boost.. I would not be surprise breaking 4's.

4) exhaust is good as is.. i'm sure we can find power by removing the cats. For now I don't plan to touch the exhaust. This car is my wife's daily driver. A better muffler with nicer tips is needed.

5) The charge pipes from the turbo compressors to the intercooler are not very impressive.. and just swapping them for a thicker diameter should help flow more air to the intercooler and into the engine. Very easy to get to the pipes and should be a simple swap.

6)Mix E85 couple of gallons to 91 fill up makes a difference. Specially with a mild tune. Would be nice to dyno, stock, tune and tune +E85 mix. Most of the research I have found adding a few gallons say 20% of your fuel capacity should be Ok.

7) plug and play tuning is very convenient and very nice to have the ability to swap settings from a USB cable and user friendly GUI provided by the tuner. I have been flashing ECU on all my cars but having the ability to remove the tune is the way to go.

8) intercooler accessibility is very good and should be easy to replace to larger unit. However I don't see additional heat exchanger to support Intercooler. I will look around again, but this can create in issue during hot So Cal months.

My goal for this car is Mid 12's trapping 112/113 just with a tune and some E85 mix. I think anymore would be just icing on the cake.

DameMD

Nice review....

I think that the c400 should be able to dip into the mid 12's with good tune. Not to magazine race; but car and driver along with others got this car stock at 4.6-4.7 0-60 and low 13's stock. I can imagine with over 80hp+ and 70tq+ from a tune, this car would be an animal. I don't know if it's enough to hit mid 12's but anything is possible.

If tuners can get this car upwards of 400hp+ (dyno proven) then, I may jump on a leftover c400 instead of waiting for the c450.

If Mercedes makes a GLC400 or GLC450, I know what my fiance's next truck would be.

jorgetav

I don't know much regarding tuning, so forgive my ignorance, but I would be interested in one for my soon to be delivered C400. How does the tune work with the various performance settings (Comfort, Sport, etc.)? I presume the tune would change these parameters, so I'm not sure how it would work under various settings.

Jon@BMS

For Stage1 tuning we program it as a pass through. Those modes primarily impact pedal to load mapping. We set it up so all modes work as normal only stronger than previously at higher pedal inputs.

chutak

What's the stock boost for the C400 V6 bi-turbo anyway? There is some info from Mercedes floating around that said it was 1.8 bar (about 26 psi), but it seems like a typo. That's awfully high for a stock tune, except for the CLA 45 AMG of course.

Jon@BMS

Around 9psi from what I've seen so far. On par with the BMW 335.

chutak

Good to hear! Sounds like this platform may have a lot of potential, just hope the bottom-end can take the abuse.

Jon@BMS

From what I can gather it seems pretty sturdy. I would not be concerned in the +40-50hp range. Whether it will take +200-300hp as the BMW 3L does, remains to be seen.

C63TSgt

Just lurking over here for the giggles and saw Terry posting! Can't say enough praise for this guy, got my N54 135i into the 11's relatively cheaply and easily! Awesome support, and awesome products! I've since moved on to the M156, but man I can't say enough good things about the JB4 and JB5.

Mark's M

I agree based on the feedback I see on Bimmerpost. If a BMW makes it to my driveway again, my Dinan days are over and I'd do a BMS tune in a heartbeat. I'm watching this thread intently to see what he'll come up with for the C400/450 and if there's enough enthusiasts out there to support his efforts.

But today he sort of yelled at me in another thread and I'm hurt . Think I'll be ok tomorrow though.

C63TSgt

I hope he develops it, any twin turbo 6 is begging for more power!

Mark's M

Absolutely agree!

TopGun32

Terry,

Today they released the specs.. this is good news for tuners.

The engine is the same.. power split slightly different but I think tuners can find a way to custimize.

I'm not worried about the exhaust since that is very easy to fix.

don't care for the wheels or small pieces of trim they added.

In all... the suspension would be the selling point but if you don't car for any more sport on C400.. i don't think waitinf for a C450 is crucial.

Based on help from Terry, our C400 is packing way more than C450 with just a stage 1 Beta tune.

Jon@BMS

Good to hear. Hope to have the C300 harnesses in volume in a few weeks. The same harness spacing should work well for the C400 too. Then it's all hands on deck.

synaptik

question now is, with a stock 362/382 how much further can the c450 be pushed? 400/420 would be incredible!

TopGun32

good question.. but i think we can look at the AMG turbo cars and find the answer.

the Perf Package of AMG's vs standard yield the same power when both tuned.

The same for the 4.7TT i currently have on my E550. Most of the time the power is the same. My car is rated as 402HP and SL550 at 429.. both tune does not a make a big difference.

J.Raymond

Completely agree .... looks like a typo ....

The boost for the M276 DELA 30 has been reported on multiple sites at a stratospheric 1.8 bar (26.1 psi). I am thinking the number is actually 0.8 bar (11.6 psi).

Not only is that number more realistic - it is also in line with the M276 DELA 35 3.5L TT that has a nearly identical power output running with 0.7 bar (10.2 psi).

Will be most curious to see how much more boost Mercedes added for the C450.

And agree too - the move seems akin to BMW's warmer tune on the 335is.

J.

TopGun32

The JB4 tune that will be released by BMS will likely default to +3LBS from the basic map on a C400.

Our data logging showed stock is around 9LBS with weak 91 oct gas. Could be closer to 10LBS with 93 and 95 oct.

So far I have seen 14lbs of boost with zero issues and maintaining smooth power curve.

if you want to read a bit more about my testing.. N54tech.com

I'm only providing info to those that want to know. I understand this community is not particular big on tuning cars.

No dyno anytime soon.. AWD dynos are difficult to find and tricky to compare against DynoJet numbers.

Jon@BMS

Feedback as been pretty solid all around on our Stage1.

chutak

Happen to have any stg 1 vs stock dynos or time slips?

J.Raymond

Will the same tune be applicable ??

Just curious at this point.

J.

TopGun32

all 3.0TT engines.. as long as the harness wires can make the proper connections. Which to me they should without issues.

Basically JB4 is a divide size of a calculator.. has a big plug with a wire harness to make 3 or 4 connections around the engine bay. Then you can plug a pin to USB cable to run a BMS provided software. Software is very simple and you can change maps and data log.


E400 RWD coupe would be an ideal solution. I would not be surprised given RWD and some E85 or 100 oct mix with 91.. you can hit high 300's RWHP.


Any 400 or 450 engine will be able to use the JB4, unless MB changes something drastacly i don't see a problem.

Jon@BMS

It's a Stage1 not a JB4. But the same box and harness can be used for either model. The system picks up the sensor voltage and adjusts its internal map accordingly.

synaptik

do you have any preliminary numbers to share? very eager to hear about it!