Compare BMW drive to that of C-300
11-12-2015, 10:50 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Compare BMW drive to that of C-300
Hi guys, I'm new and not yet a MB owner. However, I have joined the forum in order to get info about possibly getting a 2017 C-300 coupe...when it finally is available.
I have been a BMW owner since 2002 (2002 325 traded in for a 2013 Cadillac ATS-BTW it is true that the ATS is more fun to drive than the BMW 3, and a 2005 BMW Z4), but as I am getting older and getting in and out of the Z4 is becoming a little more cumbersome, I'm thinking of getting either a 2016 BMW 228 coupe or a 2017 MB C-300 coupe. Basically, I'm looking for a rear wheel drive coupe that handles well and is some fun to drive. And, I'd appreciate some help with my decision.
I have test driven a 2016 228 and a 2016 C-300 sedan. The BMW handles better and is faster, the MB is better looking inside and out, and handles well. But these were just short tests and I'm looking for BMW owners (previous or present) than can make a reasonable comparison between these two excellent cars.
I know that the BMW will satisfy my wants and needs, but the the MB because of its looks has grabbed my eye. Furthermore, as the ATS is a somewhat better drive than the BMW 3, I'll still have the BMW drive...or very close to it. I really don't need all the performance that the BMW can offer, but I do have concerns that the MB may not "feel" as good. The MB (2.0 T engine) doesn't have to be as fast as the BMW but nonetheless accelerate well. I would like to have a good feel for the road (without a floaty feeling) and a smooth engine and transmission response.
I know much of this will be subjective, but nonetheless, I do appreciate your responses.
I have been a BMW owner since 2002 (2002 325 traded in for a 2013 Cadillac ATS-BTW it is true that the ATS is more fun to drive than the BMW 3, and a 2005 BMW Z4), but as I am getting older and getting in and out of the Z4 is becoming a little more cumbersome, I'm thinking of getting either a 2016 BMW 228 coupe or a 2017 MB C-300 coupe. Basically, I'm looking for a rear wheel drive coupe that handles well and is some fun to drive. And, I'd appreciate some help with my decision.
I have test driven a 2016 228 and a 2016 C-300 sedan. The BMW handles better and is faster, the MB is better looking inside and out, and handles well. But these were just short tests and I'm looking for BMW owners (previous or present) than can make a reasonable comparison between these two excellent cars.
I know that the BMW will satisfy my wants and needs, but the the MB because of its looks has grabbed my eye. Furthermore, as the ATS is a somewhat better drive than the BMW 3, I'll still have the BMW drive...or very close to it. I really don't need all the performance that the BMW can offer, but I do have concerns that the MB may not "feel" as good. The MB (2.0 T engine) doesn't have to be as fast as the BMW but nonetheless accelerate well. I would like to have a good feel for the road (without a floaty feeling) and a smooth engine and transmission response.
I know much of this will be subjective, but nonetheless, I do appreciate your responses.
Last edited by flycaster; 11-12-2015 at 10:54 AM.
11-13-2015, 01:37 AM
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Mercedes C300, BMW X5
I never drove 228. I base on my experience with 320i and 328i which I got as loaner. These are not short term loaner unfortunately (X5 in the shop 
) The C300 suspension is the biggest pit fall. It feels like it has two personality. When you hit bumps that is not steep, it feel very good. Then, you hit steeper bumps, you can definitely feel a jolt if you keep the air pressure at 36 psi. At 32 psi, it is much more reasonable comfortable. The BMW 3 series does not have that problem. Neither does E350 (another a week loaner ) nor my X5 has that issue.
Over broken pavement when cornering up an on ramp, the Mercedes back seem not as planted as BMW. You do feel a tad out of control. That is not just me. I spot at least one review commented on that.
On ride and handling, I would vote for BMW. Keep in mind that BMW 3 series are more tuned for comfort and less sporty. 2 series will be stiffer. So your delta may be smaller.
The best part of Mercedes C300 is that it is very quiet and good looking cars. It is updated and feels new.
) The C300 suspension is the biggest pit fall. It feels like it has two personality. When you hit bumps that is not steep, it feel very good. Then, you hit steeper bumps, you can definitely feel a jolt if you keep the air pressure at 36 psi. At 32 psi, it is much more reasonable comfortable. The BMW 3 series does not have that problem. Neither does E350 (another a week loaner ) nor my X5 has that issue. Over broken pavement when cornering up an on ramp, the Mercedes back seem not as planted as BMW. You do feel a tad out of control. That is not just me. I spot at least one review commented on that.
On ride and handling, I would vote for BMW. Keep in mind that BMW 3 series are more tuned for comfort and less sporty. 2 series will be stiffer. So your delta may be smaller.
The best part of Mercedes C300 is that it is very quiet and good looking cars. It is updated and feels new.
11-13-2015, 06:17 AM
#3
Super Moderator
It is extremely subjective even amongst the motoring scribes. The driving experience is very different between Benz & BMW although over recent years BMW has softened it's vehicles more in the Benz direction. BMW's never feel quite as vault solid in build as Benz vehicles but can be enormous fun. I find that I drive like a hooligan in BMW's whereas Benz vehicles calm me down. The new Benz interiors are great & they have gone back in the direction of what they do well. Luxury!
BMW vehicles go into snap oversteer at the limit if you are not careful. Benz vehicles are all terminal understeerers at the limit for safety in the hands of inexperienced drivers. The Z4 is one of the worst handling BMW's of the recent era. It is really a boulevard cruiser.
You need to drive the cars & decide what you can really live with. It sounds as though you might well appreciate the Benz Values at this stage.
You requested no fine detail so I will leave it at that. Where I come from Benz vehicles make old bones a lot better than those from BMW. Benz products are highly durable. They are not the global taxi for nothing & especially in Asia & Europe. They will frequently do a million Km's plus trouble free. Lot's of tyres & brake pads.
BMW vehicles go into snap oversteer at the limit if you are not careful. Benz vehicles are all terminal understeerers at the limit for safety in the hands of inexperienced drivers. The Z4 is one of the worst handling BMW's of the recent era. It is really a boulevard cruiser.
You need to drive the cars & decide what you can really live with. It sounds as though you might well appreciate the Benz Values at this stage.
You requested no fine detail so I will leave it at that. Where I come from Benz vehicles make old bones a lot better than those from BMW. Benz products are highly durable. They are not the global taxi for nothing & especially in Asia & Europe. They will frequently do a million Km's plus trouble free. Lot's of tyres & brake pads.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 11-13-2015 at 06:52 AM.
11-13-2015, 09:37 AM
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C300 diesel hybrid
Not where I'm living - they were overtaken by Skoda and the Japanese manufacturers long ago.
11-13-2015, 09:58 AM
#5
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Hey Solarflare and Glyn, all good solid responses that should help with my decision making.
Solarflare:
You've definitely hit on two of my concern areas - back end not holding well and how the MB handles over rougher pavement. I, too, have read (somewhere) that these could be annoying problems. It's not that I will be tracking a car, nor will I be trying to beat folks at the light, but I will occasionally be putting my foot down and will need to have the secure footing feel that I have gotten from my BMWs. If the car is going to be "jumpy" at times, I might not feel too secure. But, then again, I really won't be hot roding the car, more likely just driving it "normally" most of the time. I know that the 228 will be stiffer than the 3 (BMW screwed up the 3 around 2006/7 by making the drive softer in order to capture more market share) and much more like my 2002 325 and my 2005 Z4, and I can easily live with that. But, damn, the C300 coupe is just one beautiful car inside and outside, and this is really getting to me. At my stage in life, although I'm certainly willing to give up some of the BMW's superior performance characteristics vs the C300, I don't want to go around regretting the C300 because it doesn't feel planted.
Glyn:
I certainly agree with your assessment that all this is rather subjective and that BMWs are a lot of fun to drive, whereas the MB is a winner in luxury. And, I think you may have left out that it is a reasonably good drive...but not the same as a comparable BMW. However, I do disagree that the 2005 Z4 doesn't handle well. Perhaps you are right if we start looking at later model Z4s, but this one, at least to me, handled as well as my 2002 325...and that what the 228 is now back to. Once again, only my subjective evaluation and not meant to foster an ardent discussion. Anyway, whichever car I get, I won't be driving it like I stole it.
What I would like to hear, Glyn, is your take on the possibly less than planted feel from the C300's rear end. I know this is a tough question as the 2017 C300 coupe hasn't been released yet, and it is quite possible that its suspension will behave differently than the present C300s. Nonetheless, I'd appreciate it if you gave it a try and offer up your opinion(s). As for durability, whichever car I get, it will probably be my last and may out live me...
Solarflare:
You've definitely hit on two of my concern areas - back end not holding well and how the MB handles over rougher pavement. I, too, have read (somewhere) that these could be annoying problems. It's not that I will be tracking a car, nor will I be trying to beat folks at the light, but I will occasionally be putting my foot down and will need to have the secure footing feel that I have gotten from my BMWs. If the car is going to be "jumpy" at times, I might not feel too secure. But, then again, I really won't be hot roding the car, more likely just driving it "normally" most of the time. I know that the 228 will be stiffer than the 3 (BMW screwed up the 3 around 2006/7 by making the drive softer in order to capture more market share) and much more like my 2002 325 and my 2005 Z4, and I can easily live with that. But, damn, the C300 coupe is just one beautiful car inside and outside, and this is really getting to me. At my stage in life, although I'm certainly willing to give up some of the BMW's superior performance characteristics vs the C300, I don't want to go around regretting the C300 because it doesn't feel planted.
Glyn:
I certainly agree with your assessment that all this is rather subjective and that BMWs are a lot of fun to drive, whereas the MB is a winner in luxury. And, I think you may have left out that it is a reasonably good drive...but not the same as a comparable BMW. However, I do disagree that the 2005 Z4 doesn't handle well. Perhaps you are right if we start looking at later model Z4s, but this one, at least to me, handled as well as my 2002 325...and that what the 228 is now back to. Once again, only my subjective evaluation and not meant to foster an ardent discussion. Anyway, whichever car I get, I won't be driving it like I stole it.
What I would like to hear, Glyn, is your take on the possibly less than planted feel from the C300's rear end. I know this is a tough question as the 2017 C300 coupe hasn't been released yet, and it is quite possible that its suspension will behave differently than the present C300s. Nonetheless, I'd appreciate it if you gave it a try and offer up your opinion(s). As for durability, whichever car I get, it will probably be my last and may out live me...
11-13-2015, 02:30 PM
#6
Super Moderator
I have to disagree; I have owned three BMWs and two Audi's and never once had a warranty repair - they feel as solid as the Mercedes. My C300 has already been back to the dealer twice (in three months) for warranty work.
Not where I'm living - they were overtaken by Skoda and the Japanese manufacturers long ago.
Not where I'm living - they were overtaken by Skoda and the Japanese manufacturers long ago.
I've just retired from a global job responsible for 227 markets and flying an average of 230 days a year. Benz is still the high end global taxi. Even in places like Greece.
In Asia Benz has almost God like status. The other German brands, not so.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 11-13-2015 at 02:57 PM.
11-13-2015, 02:39 PM
#7
Super Moderator
Hey Solarflare and Glyn, all good solid responses that should help with my decision making.
Glyn:
I certainly agree with your assessment that all this is rather subjective and that BMWs are a lot of fun to drive, whereas the MB is a winner in luxury. And, I think you may have left out that it is a reasonably good drive...but not the same as a comparable BMW. However, I do disagree that the 2005 Z4 doesn't handle well. Perhaps you are right if we start looking at later model Z4s, but this one, at least to me, handled as well as my 2002 325...and that what the 228 is now back to. Once again, only my subjective evaluation and not meant to foster an ardent discussion. Anyway, whichever car I get, I won't be driving it like I stole it.
What I would like to hear, Glyn, is your take on the possibly less than planted feel from the C300's rear end. I know this is a tough question as the 2017 C300 coupe hasn't been released yet, and it is quite possible that its suspension will behave differently than the present C300s. Nonetheless, I'd appreciate it if you gave it a try and offer up your opinion(s). As for durability, whichever car I get, it will probably be my last and may out live me...
Glyn:
I certainly agree with your assessment that all this is rather subjective and that BMWs are a lot of fun to drive, whereas the MB is a winner in luxury. And, I think you may have left out that it is a reasonably good drive...but not the same as a comparable BMW. However, I do disagree that the 2005 Z4 doesn't handle well. Perhaps you are right if we start looking at later model Z4s, but this one, at least to me, handled as well as my 2002 325...and that what the 228 is now back to. Once again, only my subjective evaluation and not meant to foster an ardent discussion. Anyway, whichever car I get, I won't be driving it like I stole it.
What I would like to hear, Glyn, is your take on the possibly less than planted feel from the C300's rear end. I know this is a tough question as the 2017 C300 coupe hasn't been released yet, and it is quite possible that its suspension will behave differently than the present C300s. Nonetheless, I'd appreciate it if you gave it a try and offer up your opinion(s). As for durability, whichever car I get, it will probably be my last and may out live me...
I prefer the Benz feel so I've owned a string of them but drive BMW's fairly often due to my circumstances. Mainly hired when out of town to play with a different brand out of interest.
In the last 10 years not a single performance BMW has got through our local "Car" Magazines's standardised testing regime without a failure of one description or another & they still like them.
EDIT: BTW it is my understanding that Benz is working with the tyre manufacturers on a run flat that will not run as far flat but is less compromised in the handling & feel stakes.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 11-13-2015 at 03:05 PM.
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11-13-2015, 03:11 PM
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Good idea, dumping the run flats. Never liked them. If I got the C300, I'd would try to have the dealer give me regular tires.
Also, how well I appreciate your comments on being an "early adapter." When I was ready to turn in my 325, I opted for Cadillac's newest edition, the ATS. Got the brand new ATS because I wanted a car that performed like or better than my 325 - BTW, I am not into brand names, so getting a Cadillac, per se, meant nothing to me.. Wasn't into the 328s as every one and their mothers had one and although the engines and transmissions were great, BMW had already diminished the car's driving feel. The ATS lived up to my expectations (a great driving car with more luxury than the BMW 3s and didn't look like every other car on the block,) but I paid the early adapter price with this first model of the ATS. Many minor recalls, problems with the infotainment center, malfunctioning condensed water removal from the A/C system, faulty lumbar air support, replace driver's seat motor, blown pistons (not on my car though) leading to more dealer visits than I can recall. So, as you can see, I am somewhat leery of becoming another early adapter with the 2017 C300 coupe. But, don't get me wrong as I still love the ATS. In fact, if i were to get the C300, the ATS would be my BMW drive. BTW, the ATS coupe would have been also in the running, but wasn't because I couldn't stand the thought of having to look at the same dashboards...too bad as the ATS coupe is quite a car.
Also, how well I appreciate your comments on being an "early adapter." When I was ready to turn in my 325, I opted for Cadillac's newest edition, the ATS. Got the brand new ATS because I wanted a car that performed like or better than my 325 - BTW, I am not into brand names, so getting a Cadillac, per se, meant nothing to me.. Wasn't into the 328s as every one and their mothers had one and although the engines and transmissions were great, BMW had already diminished the car's driving feel. The ATS lived up to my expectations (a great driving car with more luxury than the BMW 3s and didn't look like every other car on the block,) but I paid the early adapter price with this first model of the ATS. Many minor recalls, problems with the infotainment center, malfunctioning condensed water removal from the A/C system, faulty lumbar air support, replace driver's seat motor, blown pistons (not on my car though) leading to more dealer visits than I can recall. So, as you can see, I am somewhat leery of becoming another early adapter with the 2017 C300 coupe. But, don't get me wrong as I still love the ATS. In fact, if i were to get the C300, the ATS would be my BMW drive. BTW, the ATS coupe would have been also in the running, but wasn't because I couldn't stand the thought of having to look at the same dashboards...too bad as the ATS coupe is quite a car.
11-13-2015, 03:36 PM
#9
Super Moderator
Fortunately the C Coupe will be built on the W205 underpinnings so hopefully most of the early issues will have been resolved. Some are plant specific. I look forward to trying out the less compromised run flats I mention in my Edit above. To me the technology is not mature & I don't like it personally.
My CLK only has 21,000 miles on the clock but the new C Coupe is certainly pretty. I like Coupe's as I drive one up 90% of the time.
My CLK only has 21,000 miles on the clock but the new C Coupe is certainly pretty. I like Coupe's as I drive one up 90% of the time.
11-13-2015, 06:42 PM
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2015 E250 BT 4M
Your best chance would be to take your brand new C300 to an independent tire shop and attempt to get some credit for the OEM MOE tires in trade for non-runflats.
11-14-2015, 02:57 AM
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Mercedes C300, BMW X5
I completely agree with getting a new set of tires. Once I lower the tire pressure to 32 psi, the car is much better behaved. The tire pressure I put in is still recommended by MB. It is just not for driving above 100 mph. That is what MB dealer likes to put in. This is strange considering they did not put in the number for maxload but for normal load at 100 mph. If I drove that fast and get caught, I go straight to jail for reckless driving.
I had good experience with Michelin run flat. That is what my X5 has and it feels really good. I will replace with Michelin next time. I don't believe that you need to sacrifice comfort with run flat. Over in BMW forum, Michelin seemed to be highly rated. I expect it to work equally well on Mercedes.
There is still something about C class suspension design that makes it much more sensitive. E class with runflat tires was much better. I think they got more room to improve.
As for my reliability issue with C300, it has been only about noise issue in the cabin and one software update to the audio system (to remember the ring tone volume.) Things has been much better now. I hope this continue this way. I want to get back to enjoy cruising around in C300.
If you are a lease kind of person, I don't think it matter that much about when you buy. If you are the person that buy it for a long time like I intend to do with the C300, then I recommend just wait for a couple of years to work out all the kinks.
As for Mercedes/BMW driving behavior, I drive equally aggressive in C300 and X5. A car does not change a person's driving if you only have one mode to go. For me that is fast around the corner and slow on the straight (don't want a ticket.)
I had good experience with Michelin run flat. That is what my X5 has and it feels really good. I will replace with Michelin next time. I don't believe that you need to sacrifice comfort with run flat. Over in BMW forum, Michelin seemed to be highly rated. I expect it to work equally well on Mercedes.
There is still something about C class suspension design that makes it much more sensitive. E class with runflat tires was much better. I think they got more room to improve.
As for my reliability issue with C300, it has been only about noise issue in the cabin and one software update to the audio system (to remember the ring tone volume.) Things has been much better now. I hope this continue this way. I want to get back to enjoy cruising around in C300.
If you are a lease kind of person, I don't think it matter that much about when you buy. If you are the person that buy it for a long time like I intend to do with the C300, then I recommend just wait for a couple of years to work out all the kinks.
As for Mercedes/BMW driving behavior, I drive equally aggressive in C300 and X5. A car does not change a person's driving if you only have one mode to go. For me that is fast around the corner and slow on the straight (don't want a ticket.)
11-14-2015, 08:46 AM
#13
Super Moderator
The E Class runs softer spring rates & damping ~ especially rebound damping. It is also heavier. Hence greater tolerance for the compromises of run flats. The S Class even more so. Michelin already has the new Benz spec tyre in limited availability I understand. Supply situation should change quickly. BMW has had more time to tune suspensions for run flats after severe criticism. The W205 is superb on Michelin PS2's & PS3's. Run flats are still a compromise in all respects. From compounding to carcass construction. I expect Michelin to lead the way. Typical run flat life in SA is awful due to compounding.
11-14-2015, 09:04 AM
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C300 diesel hybrid
Dunlop or Goodyear
The E Class runs softer spring rates & damping ~ especially rebound damping. It is also heavier. Hence greater tolerance for the compromises of run flats. The S Class even more so. Michelin already has the new Benz spec tyre in limited availability I understand. Supply situation should change quickly. BMW has had more time to tune suspensions for run flats after severe criticism. The W205 is superb on Michelin PS2's & PS3's. Run flats are still a compromise in all respects. From compounding to carcass construction. I expect Michelin to lead the way. Typical run flat life in SA is awful due to compounding.
I have the 19" AMG alloys and I find the standard Pzero runflats harsh, though I find the biggest problem is that imperfections in the road surface during cornering tends to throw the rear of the car offline; its like its bouncing off the bumps; very disconcerting.
I have my 17" Goodyear winters ready to install soon so that should give a good comparison - looking forward to that !
11-14-2015, 09:19 AM
#15
Super Moderator
Sorry. No I don't. The Eagle F1 is a good tyre. Almost a direct copy of Michelin that led to some conflict. Michelin were fed up about it!
