AMG-Sport is dead. C450 will now be AMG C43
03-21-2016, 12:46 PM
#401
I don't think many people use the paddles in manual mode at all during non-racing driving, just put in Sport+ mode and punch it.
03-21-2016, 12:50 PM
#402
Senior Member
9 speed should be faster/smoother shifting, double declutching in Sport/Sport+ modes for downshifting should pair well with the crackle of the AMG exhaust and should allow for much quicker downshifting when you punch it, marginally better fuel economy, etc. plus the 9 speed is paired with a 31/69 rear bias, which should in theory make it marginally more fun to drive.
I don't think many people use the paddles in manual mode at all during non-racing driving, just put in Sport+ mode and punch it.
I don't think many people use the paddles in manual mode at all during non-racing driving, just put in Sport+ mode and punch it.
03-21-2016, 01:20 PM
#403
Super Member
They moved from 33/67 to 31/69 split. Can't imagine someone could tell the difference, but who knows.
I've posted before on here that for manually shifting, I think 9 is too many, depending upon how the ratios are spaced. That said, for most of the population, seems like the 9G will be a better transmission. For me personally I wouldn't wait around for it, but I know others have different valuations on such things.
I've posted before on here that for manually shifting, I think 9 is too many, depending upon how the ratios are spaced. That said, for most of the population, seems like the 9G will be a better transmission. For me personally I wouldn't wait around for it, but I know others have different valuations on such things.
03-21-2016, 02:15 PM
#404
9 speed should be faster/smoother shifting, double declutching in Sport/Sport+ modes for downshifting should pair well with the crackle of the AMG exhaust and should allow for much quicker downshifting when you punch it, marginally better fuel economy, etc. plus the 9 speed is paired with a 31/69 rear bias, which should in theory make it marginally more fun to drive.
I don't think many people use the paddles in manual mode at all during non-racing driving, just put in Sport+ mode and punch it.
I don't think many people use the paddles in manual mode at all during non-racing driving, just put in Sport+ mode and punch it.
03-21-2016, 02:57 PM
#406
Super Member
They moved from 33/67 to 31/69 split. Can't imagine someone could tell the difference, but who knows.
I've posted before on here that for manually shifting, I think 9 is too many, depending upon how the ratios are spaced. That said, for most of the population, seems like the 9G will be a better transmission. For me personally I wouldn't wait around for it, but I know others have different valuations on such things.
I've posted before on here that for manually shifting, I think 9 is too many, depending upon how the ratios are spaced. That said, for most of the population, seems like the 9G will be a better transmission. For me personally I wouldn't wait around for it, but I know others have different valuations on such things.
03-21-2016, 03:03 PM
#407
They moved from 33/67 to 31/69 split. Can't imagine someone could tell the difference, but who knows.
I've posted before on here that for manually shifting, I think 9 is too many, depending upon how the ratios are spaced. That said, for most of the population, seems like the 9G will be a better transmission. For me personally I wouldn't wait around for it, but I know others have different valuations on such things.
I've posted before on here that for manually shifting, I think 9 is too many, depending upon how the ratios are spaced. That said, for most of the population, seems like the 9G will be a better transmission. For me personally I wouldn't wait around for it, but I know others have different valuations on such things.
Long gears are more fun than having indistinguishable gears. I just feel like you'd be fiddling on the paddles without recognition of being in the proper gear.
03-21-2016, 03:53 PM
#408
Are there any photos of all of the new badging yet? I have looked through all of the official photos and the only thing I was able to tell was the rear badging (AMG on the left and c43 on the right with the 43 slightly offset from the c. The fenders look like they now say BiTurbo 4Matic. But what about the stupid details like the door sills? Do the seats now have the AMG badge? Any embossing on the leather? I'm really curious to see if Mercedes goes the Ebay route and goes full tilt on the badges.
I really cannot stand the wait for my car. FYI, I have taken Donald Trump's oath to not relabel my C450.
I really cannot stand the wait for my car. FYI, I have taken Donald Trump's oath to not relabel my C450.
03-21-2016, 05:06 PM
#409
Junior Member
For me, I just want the 9 speed transmission. I feel like a 7 is already dated, and when I buy a new car I intend to keep it for ~5 years, so I don't want to buy something that I already feel had dated mechanics...knowing they will only become most dated as the car ages with my ownership.
03-21-2016, 05:43 PM
#410
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm sure they will for 2018 on the refresh but since it's already in production it's too much to change.. Plus I'm guessing it's gonna be a while till they build up enough stock to put them in all these models and get rid of the 7g's
03-21-2016, 06:15 PM
#411
Senior Member
03-21-2016, 06:27 PM
#412
Super Member
Call me old fashioned or skittish if you like, but it took MB a long time to get the 7G right. Some would say it still is unreliable. If I had the option I would avoid the 9G until it is proven. Transmissions are tough, many if not most higher end car manufacturers don't build them themselves. Plus 9 gears is a lot to cram down there and a 1st gen is not something that I would be anxious to own.
03-21-2016, 06:35 PM
#413
Junior Member
Call me old fashioned or skittish if you like, but it took MB a long time to get the 7G right. Some would say it still is unreliable. If I had the option I would avoid the 9G until it is proven. Transmissions are tough, many if not most higher end car manufacturers don't build them themselves. Plus 9 gears is a lot to cram down there and a 1st gen is not something that I would be anxious to own.
03-21-2016, 07:14 PM
#414
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
13 Posts
2016 C450
You don't get it. Using the paddles in spirited driving will almost always skip a gear or two to get to the appropriate gear, there is no rule to say it will go from 9 to 8 to 7 etc. So what mess are u referencing? Even in comfort mode, without using the paddles, if you suddenly squeeze the throttle, the transmission will skip gears in a flash, depending on throttle input. I find it laughable that people are suggesting that the new 9 speed might be inferior to the 7 in any way. Go and read all the reviews out there about the new 9 speed, I don't think you can find one that's negative
03-21-2016, 08:15 PM
#415
Super Member
You don't get it. Using the paddles in spirited driving will almost always skip a gear or two to get to the appropriate gear, there is no rule to say it will go from 9 to 8 to 7 etc. So what mess are u referencing? Even in comfort mode, without using the paddles, if you suddenly squeeze the throttle, the transmission will skip gears in a flash, depending on throttle input. I find it laughable that people are suggesting that the new 9 speed might be inferior to the 7 in any way. Go and read all the reviews out there about the new 9 speed, I don't think you can find one that's negative
i don't mean to be repetitive, but I've stated before I drove a 9 speed TLX and the C450 back to back, and immediately commented that the 9 speed wasn't enjoyable on my back road portion of the test, because I had too many flicks to find the right gear. This is not a good comparison between the Mercedes 7g and 9G because that was a different transmission, but it wasn't the transmission itself I had the issue with, just the number of cogs in backroad driving. Keep in mind I regularly drive a couple of 6 speed manual transmission cars, so my perspective is probably different than those who drive autos all the time. While i haven't driven the Mercedes 9G, I would assume it outclasses the 7G in most other scenarios, and that is probably how they'll be used 98% of the time. Even admittedly, probably how I'll use it 80% of the time, and I would think the good would outweigh the bad.
Question for you, have you ever manually shifted a 9 speed transmission? Had no concerns?
By the way, similar discussions going on elsewhere as GM has just announced their first 10 speed auto in high performance applications to replace the 8 speed. Lots of bicycle jokes being made in some forums.
03-21-2016, 09:03 PM
#416
Super Member
Are you saying that one hit of the paddle will make it go down or up multiple gears? That is a very unusual standard for manually shifting an automatic, and I would be surprised if that is how it is implemented, but wouldn't be the first time I scratch my head at the engineers. Of course when in automatic mode that will happen, because the computer is selecting the gear not the human.
i don't mean to be repetitive, but I've stated before I drove a 9 speed TLX and the C450 back to back, and immediately commented that the 9 speed wasn't enjoyable on my back road portion of the test, because I had too many flicks to find the right gear. This is not a good comparison between the Mercedes 7g and 9G because that was a different transmission, but it wasn't the transmission itself I had the issue with, just the number of cogs in backroad driving. Keep in mind I regularly drive a couple of 6 speed manual transmission cars, so my perspective is probably different than those who drive autos all the time. While i haven't driven the Mercedes 9G, I would assume it outclasses the 7G in most other scenarios, and that is probably how they'll be used 98% of the time. Even admittedly, probably how I'll use it 80% of the time, and I would think the good would outweigh the bad.
Question for you, have you ever manually shifted a 9 speed transmission? Had no concerns?
By the way, similar discussions going on elsewhere as GM has just announced their first 10 speed auto in high performance applications to replace the 8 speed. Lots of bicycle jokes being made in some forums.
i don't mean to be repetitive, but I've stated before I drove a 9 speed TLX and the C450 back to back, and immediately commented that the 9 speed wasn't enjoyable on my back road portion of the test, because I had too many flicks to find the right gear. This is not a good comparison between the Mercedes 7g and 9G because that was a different transmission, but it wasn't the transmission itself I had the issue with, just the number of cogs in backroad driving. Keep in mind I regularly drive a couple of 6 speed manual transmission cars, so my perspective is probably different than those who drive autos all the time. While i haven't driven the Mercedes 9G, I would assume it outclasses the 7G in most other scenarios, and that is probably how they'll be used 98% of the time. Even admittedly, probably how I'll use it 80% of the time, and I would think the good would outweigh the bad.
Question for you, have you ever manually shifted a 9 speed transmission? Had no concerns?
By the way, similar discussions going on elsewhere as GM has just announced their first 10 speed auto in high performance applications to replace the 8 speed. Lots of bicycle jokes being made in some forums.
03-22-2016, 09:54 AM
#418
Super Member
Thread Starter
Are you saying that one hit of the paddle will make it go down or up multiple gears? That is a very unusual standard for manually shifting an automatic, and I would be surprised if that is how it is implemented, but wouldn't be the first time I scratch my head at the engineers. Of course when in automatic mode that will happen, because the computer is selecting the gear not the human.
i don't mean to be repetitive, but I've stated before I drove a 9 speed TLX and the C450 back to back, and immediately commented that the 9 speed wasn't enjoyable on my back road portion of the test, because I had too many flicks to find the right gear. This is not a good comparison between the Mercedes 7g and 9G because that was a different transmission, but it wasn't the transmission itself I had the issue with, just the number of cogs in backroad driving. Keep in mind I regularly drive a couple of 6 speed manual transmission cars, so my perspective is probably different than those who drive autos all the time. While i haven't driven the Mercedes 9G, I would assume it outclasses the 7G in most other scenarios, and that is probably how they'll be used 98% of the time. Even admittedly, probably how I'll use it 80% of the time, and I would think the good would outweigh the bad.
Question for you, have you ever manually shifted a 9 speed transmission? Had no concerns?
By the way, similar discussions going on elsewhere as GM has just announced their first 10 speed auto in high performance applications to replace the 8 speed. Lots of bicycle jokes being made in some forums.
i don't mean to be repetitive, but I've stated before I drove a 9 speed TLX and the C450 back to back, and immediately commented that the 9 speed wasn't enjoyable on my back road portion of the test, because I had too many flicks to find the right gear. This is not a good comparison between the Mercedes 7g and 9G because that was a different transmission, but it wasn't the transmission itself I had the issue with, just the number of cogs in backroad driving. Keep in mind I regularly drive a couple of 6 speed manual transmission cars, so my perspective is probably different than those who drive autos all the time. While i haven't driven the Mercedes 9G, I would assume it outclasses the 7G in most other scenarios, and that is probably how they'll be used 98% of the time. Even admittedly, probably how I'll use it 80% of the time, and I would think the good would outweigh the bad.
Question for you, have you ever manually shifted a 9 speed transmission? Had no concerns?
By the way, similar discussions going on elsewhere as GM has just announced their first 10 speed auto in high performance applications to replace the 8 speed. Lots of bicycle jokes being made in some forums.
03-22-2016, 11:18 AM
#420
Super Member
Maybe think of yourself as a pioneer of innovation, a test pilot like Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier, that dog Russia put into orbit in the '50s... that's what I'm doing. It's better than being that guy who just left the Apple store as they're rolling out the next new thing.
03-22-2016, 12:05 PM
#421
Super Member
From reports, including on this very forum quite a ways back, the C class was going to get the 9G transmission somewhere along the line. Seems like that is starting to happen, although in an odd way, as the C300 Cab is getting the 9G, but the C300 coupe is not, and no word on the C43 or C300 sedan. Executing a plan, or improving cars over time doesn't make anyone a guinea pig, it is what happens in the automobile industry at every company every day.
That may be the part of the difference of opinions we seem to have over and over on this topic. I'm a "car guy", I care about engine, suspension, etc... I don't give a rat's behind what they call it as long as I like it. Why I'm still taking delivery of a C450 next month without a second thought. That said, the marketing of a vehicle is obviously very important to many (probably most), or we wouldn't have all the brands and sub-brands that we do, and we wouldn't have people upset over a badge change. Same reason why Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc all exist. Need a different brand to market higher end cars. Auto manufacturers spend lots of time and money on marketing and naming, so I have to recognize the importance.
So, different reasons for people to be happy or unhappy depending upon what moves you. If owning a C450 makes me a guinea pig, so be it, I want it and all of its greatness.
03-22-2016, 02:46 PM
#422
You probably were a guinea pig for the marketing people who decided AMG Sport was a good idea, and quickly back-tracked from that. From the people that actually build and make the cars, definitely not. They have a plan, and are going all-in on that plan. We've seen the C450's architecture spread to the C43 coupe, C43 Cab, SLC43, and an upgraded version to the E43. So, unless first equals guinea pig, this is no experiment. Clearly the engineers and car people are happy and expanding the great architecture of the C450.
From reports, including on this very forum quite a ways back, the C class was going to get the 9G transmission somewhere along the line. Seems like that is starting to happen, although in an odd way, as the C300 Cab is getting the 9G, but the C300 coupe is not, and no word on the C43 or C300 sedan. Executing a plan, or improving cars over time doesn't make anyone a guinea pig, it is what happens in the automobile industry at every company every day.
That may be the part of the difference of opinions we seem to have over and over on this topic. I'm a "car guy", I care about engine, suspension, etc... I don't give a rat's behind what they call it as long as I like it. Why I'm still taking delivery of a C450 next month without a second thought. That said, the marketing of a vehicle is obviously very important to many (probably most), or we wouldn't have all the brands and sub-brands that we do, and we wouldn't have people upset over a badge change. Same reason why Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc all exist. Need a different brand to market higher end cars. Auto manufacturers spend lots of time and money on marketing and naming, so I have to recognize the importance.
So, different reasons for people to be happy or unhappy depending upon what moves you. If owning a C450 makes me a guinea pig, so be it, I want it and all of its greatness.
From reports, including on this very forum quite a ways back, the C class was going to get the 9G transmission somewhere along the line. Seems like that is starting to happen, although in an odd way, as the C300 Cab is getting the 9G, but the C300 coupe is not, and no word on the C43 or C300 sedan. Executing a plan, or improving cars over time doesn't make anyone a guinea pig, it is what happens in the automobile industry at every company every day.
That may be the part of the difference of opinions we seem to have over and over on this topic. I'm a "car guy", I care about engine, suspension, etc... I don't give a rat's behind what they call it as long as I like it. Why I'm still taking delivery of a C450 next month without a second thought. That said, the marketing of a vehicle is obviously very important to many (probably most), or we wouldn't have all the brands and sub-brands that we do, and we wouldn't have people upset over a badge change. Same reason why Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc all exist. Need a different brand to market higher end cars. Auto manufacturers spend lots of time and money on marketing and naming, so I have to recognize the importance.
So, different reasons for people to be happy or unhappy depending upon what moves you. If owning a C450 makes me a guinea pig, so be it, I want it and all of its greatness.
And as I've said on another thread, the only thing my heart finds worth missing is that insane monster M156.............until my brain kicks in and I realized the tradeoff. Got so much more in return for giving up 15-20% of the HP and torque - okay, and the brutal V-8 shove of an AMG built Hall-Of-Fame engine.
So, need I list the upgrades from a C400 4Matic for only $2-3,000 more, as well as the C63 tradeoffs?? Upgrades that could've been, arguably, 5-6-7,000 more? Okay, I will:
Lose:
Only 15-20% hp and torque (from C63)
But gain:
67/33 4matic......while losing 200 lb. of curb weight. Fair trade.
V-8 power via ECU reflash and/or raising boost.
C63's 3-stage adjustable dampers.
C63 steering setup.
C63 body cladding (except grill), to include quad exhaust tips.
Suspension retuned with more negative camber to enhance roadholding.
Stiffer springs, bushings and steering knuckles.
Performance exhaust upgrade.
Brake package upgrade.
And did I mention - albeit questionable to some @ the price ($22-2300), that you can add a RennTECH ECU reflash to add 40 hp / 70 lb.ft. @ the crank (to 402/454) with a warranty from Harmut Feyhl - former boss of AMG of N.A. back in the 80s.........before founding RennTECH?
ECU
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/inde...c450-bt-detail
Owner/Founder
http://www.renntechmercedes.com/index.php/about-us
Don't get me started, 'cause if I'm a guinea pig I'm a damn fine one.
Not to mention, very happy, as well.Finally, a car that's trying to keep me alive and not kill me 24/7.
03-22-2016, 09:10 PM
#425
I believe that is standard badging in some countries for the C450 (some countries don't include the 4Matic badge though).
