Question about mercedes factory 9 channel burmester amplifier
#1
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Question about mercedes factory 9 channel burmester amplifier
Can the Mercedes Benz factory 9 channel Burmester (Harmon Kardon) amplifier handle 2 ohm speakers?
Background:
I have the factory Burmester system and recently installed an Audison Prima AP8.9 bit amplifier which can handle 4 ohm or 2 ohm (unbridged)
The Audison is currently bridged on channels 3/4 and 5/6 to feed the two front left and right factory Burmester subwoofers. They must be 4 ohm because the Audison does not do 2 ohm bridged (whoops)
Now the reason I ask is I would like to upgrade the two front subs and I have found several plug and play options. But two of those options are 2 ohm speakers sets.
If I revert back to the stock amplifier I don't want any issues if it can't handle 2 ohm speakers .
The fact that two manufacturers offer 2 ohm subs for the W205 leads me to believe the factory amplifier can handle 2ohm speakers??
Option #1
Rainbow IL-S8 MB L or R (right and left) $300 each
Peak Power Handling 90 Watt
Nominal power handling 50 Watt
Impedance 4 ohms
8.0 inch (20 cm) subwoofer
Max. 90 Watts
Mounting Size: 65 x 45 x 4,5 mm
Option #2
Eton UG MB195 L $449 for pair.
195 mm (8“) air dryed, hand coated paper cone
50 mm ( 2“) voice coil
Neodym magnet system
Sound pressure level 87dB
Impedance 2 Ohms
Nominal power 150/200W
Option #3
STEG BZW80L/R $460 a pair
Cone material:Special Paper
DCR Impedance:2.2Ω
Maximum power Input:50 W
Frequency Range:55-1500Hz
Sensityvity 1W/1M:90dB
Background:
I have the factory Burmester system and recently installed an Audison Prima AP8.9 bit amplifier which can handle 4 ohm or 2 ohm (unbridged)
The Audison is currently bridged on channels 3/4 and 5/6 to feed the two front left and right factory Burmester subwoofers. They must be 4 ohm because the Audison does not do 2 ohm bridged (whoops)
Now the reason I ask is I would like to upgrade the two front subs and I have found several plug and play options. But two of those options are 2 ohm speakers sets.
If I revert back to the stock amplifier I don't want any issues if it can't handle 2 ohm speakers .
The fact that two manufacturers offer 2 ohm subs for the W205 leads me to believe the factory amplifier can handle 2ohm speakers??
Option #1
Rainbow IL-S8 MB L or R (right and left) $300 each
Peak Power Handling 90 Watt
Nominal power handling 50 Watt
Impedance 4 ohms
8.0 inch (20 cm) subwoofer
Max. 90 Watts
Mounting Size: 65 x 45 x 4,5 mm
Option #2
Eton UG MB195 L $449 for pair.
195 mm (8“) air dryed, hand coated paper cone
50 mm ( 2“) voice coil
Neodym magnet system
Sound pressure level 87dB
Impedance 2 Ohms
Nominal power 150/200W
Option #3
STEG BZW80L/R $460 a pair
Cone material:Special Paper
DCR Impedance:2.2Ω
Maximum power Input:50 W
Frequency Range:55-1500Hz
Sensityvity 1W/1M:90dB
Last edited by benzdude; 11-23-2019 at 12:22 PM.
#2
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Found Option #4
MATCH UP W8MB-S4 $500
Power RMS / Max. 100/200 Watt
frequency range 25 Hz - 250 Hz
impedance 4 Ω
Efficiency of 1 W / 1 m 88 dB
MATCH UP W8MB-S4 $500
Power RMS / Max. 100/200 Watt
frequency range 25 Hz - 250 Hz
impedance 4 Ω
Efficiency of 1 W / 1 m 88 dB
Last edited by benzdude; 10-12-2019 at 09:35 PM.
#3
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Confirming that the factory Burmester front subs are 2 ohm not 4 ohm.
Not sure how they worked on Audison Prima AP 8.9 bridged channels 3/4 and 5/6 but they did.
(if there are any car audio gurus reading this let me know)
Not sure how they worked on Audison Prima AP 8.9 bridged channels 3/4 and 5/6 but they did.
(if there are any car audio gurus reading this let me know)
#5
Which footwell subs did you end up going with? And are the results good? From the research I have done, it appears the Match Audiotech Fischer footwell subs go quite low , with a frequency response of 25 - 500 . Couldn't find any frequency response data on the Eton's though, which are "supposedly" a superior brand.... so I'm not sure how their footwell sub compares with the Match product... and I couldn't find any technical data on the frequency response for the Rainbow's either...so same question I guess. This company also offers a dizzying array of OEM upgrades https://allwoodsaudio.com/mercedes-385-c.asp but some of the "subs" are really just "woofers" I suspect..... they dont go particularly deep or low.
I've just had a Focal FDS1.350 installed in my C63S coupe today, to drive the OEM Burmeister Footwell subs. Feeding them more power has certainly brought them to life ... but really interested to know what you ended up doing and whether you feel it was worthwhile?
#6
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Which footwell subs did you end up going with? And are the results good? From the research I have done, it appears the Match Audiotech Fischer footwell subs go quite low , with a frequency response of 25 - 500 . Couldn't find any frequency response data on the Eton's though, which are "supposedly" a superior brand.... so I'm not sure how their footwell sub compares with the Match product... and I couldn't find any technical data on the frequency response for the Rainbow's either...so same question I guess. This company also offers a dizzying array of OEM upgrades https://allwoodsaudio.com/mercedes-385-c.asp but some of the "subs" are really just "woofers" I suspect..... they dont go particularly deep or low.
I've just had a Focal FDS1.350 installed in my C63S coupe today, to drive the OEM Burmeister Footwell subs. Feeding them more power has certainly brought them to life ... but really interested to know what you ended up doing and whether you feel it was worthwhile?
I've just had a Focal FDS1.350 installed in my C63S coupe today, to drive the OEM Burmeister Footwell subs. Feeding them more power has certainly brought them to life ... but really interested to know what you ended up doing and whether you feel it was worthwhile?
The Match subwoofer frequency response is listed as 25 Hz - 250 Hz. I still run them on Full Range.
I went with MATCH because of price, performance and they provided full specs and proper information on their products.
Plus, I will be replacing the Audison Prima 8.9 DSP and driving them with a Helix V TWELVE DSP soon. (keep it in the family)
Last edited by benzdude; 07-11-2020 at 01:42 PM.
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Ultan Mooney (07-11-2020)
#7
I got the complete Match speaker set for W205 and installed them.
The Match subwoofer frequency response is listed as 25 Hz - 250 Hz. I still run them on Full Range.
I went with MATCH because of price, performance and they provided full specs and proper information on their products.
Plus, I will be replacing the Audison Prima 8.9 DSP and driving them with a Helix V TWELVE DSP soon. (keep it in the family)
The Match subwoofer frequency response is listed as 25 Hz - 250 Hz. I still run them on Full Range.
I went with MATCH because of price, performance and they provided full specs and proper information on their products.
Plus, I will be replacing the Audison Prima 8.9 DSP and driving them with a Helix V TWELVE DSP soon. (keep it in the family)
Happy with the result from the new subwoofers? Significant improvement?
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#8
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I am expecting even better results after installing the V Twelve DSP and tweaking.
I have solder my adapter cables this week.
Last edited by benzdude; 07-11-2020 at 06:53 PM.
#10
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#11
I wish, I just did another search. The only one they have are Rainbow’s bottom end IL C4.2C MB. I’m looking for the IL C4.2S MB. And no subs. (IL-S8 MB R or L). This is USA eBay. I checked UK eBay too but no luck.
If you’ve found them, please share the link.
I wonder if I can make a 4” set for a BMW fit? But still doesn’t solve the problem of no subs.
If you’ve found them, please share the link.
I wonder if I can make a 4” set for a BMW fit? But still doesn’t solve the problem of no subs.
#12
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I wish, I just did another search. The only one they have are Rainbow’s bottom end IL C4.2C MB. I’m looking for the IL C4.2S MB. And no subs. (IL-S8 MB R or L). This is USA eBay. I checked UK eBay too but no luck.
If you’ve found them, please share the link.
I wonder if I can make a 4” set for a BMW fit? But still doesn’t solve the problem of no subs.
If you’ve found them, please share the link.
I wonder if I can make a 4” set for a BMW fit? But still doesn’t solve the problem of no subs.
#14
So Audio for Fun couldn’t help me but you did give me a great idea and I’ve messaged most of the people selling Rainbow speakers on eBay. So far I’m striking out with the subs but I did find a set of components (IL-C4.2S MB). It looks like the subs may be a lost cause.
#15
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So Audio for Fun couldn’t help me but you did give me a great idea and I’ve messaged most of the people selling Rainbow speakers on eBay. So far I’m striking out with the subs but I did find a set of components (IL-C4.2S MB). It looks like the subs may be a lost cause.
Those speakers must be really nice.
#16
They might be! For me, it’s sticking with the familiar as I’ve never heard any of Match/Eton etc speakers.
It looks like they don’t sell the woofers in the UK because in the UK, cars are RHD and the set only works for LHD. Oh well. I tried eBay, Finland, Switzerland, Romania, and Germany and no one will ship to the US.
time to go a different route. Probably Match or GZ.
It looks like they don’t sell the woofers in the UK because in the UK, cars are RHD and the set only works for LHD. Oh well. I tried eBay, Finland, Switzerland, Romania, and Germany and no one will ship to the US.
time to go a different route. Probably Match or GZ.
#17
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They might be! For me, it’s sticking with the familiar as I’ve never heard any of Match/Eton etc speakers.
It looks like they don’t sell the woofers in the UK because in the UK, cars are RHD and the set only works for LHD. Oh well. I tried eBay, Finland, Switzerland, Romania, and Germany and no one will ship to the US.
time to go a different route. Probably Match or GZ.
It looks like they don’t sell the woofers in the UK because in the UK, cars are RHD and the set only works for LHD. Oh well. I tried eBay, Finland, Switzerland, Romania, and Germany and no one will ship to the US.
time to go a different route. Probably Match or GZ.
55-1500Hz
That means better mid tuning. I am curious, but i dont get the 50w.
#18
Yes. It’s funny you brought that up as I was just looking at that. As a relatively uneducated person in the technical aspects of car audio. I was looking at power handling and frequency of these aftermarket footwell woofers.
Steg - 55Hz-1500Hz, 200W RMS
“Special paper cone”
Match - 25Hz-250Hz, 100W RMS
Coated paper cone
Eton - None listed - 200W RMS
Coated paper cone
Rainbow - None Listed - 90W max
Who knows what the cones are made of (The white cones are supposed to be upgraded but I can’t find the info on it)
Ground Zero (LHD) - 40Hz-2500Hz, 50W to 90W
Pressed paper cone
much higher than the Steg...
Oddly enough, Ground Zero makes a completely different footwell sub for right hand drive cars.
Ground Zero (RHD) - 30Hz-1500Hz, 110W to 220W
Coated glass fiber cone
Steg - 55Hz-1500Hz, 200W RMS
“Special paper cone”
Match - 25Hz-250Hz, 100W RMS
Coated paper cone
Eton - None listed - 200W RMS
Coated paper cone
Rainbow - None Listed - 90W max
Who knows what the cones are made of (The white cones are supposed to be upgraded but I can’t find the info on it)
Ground Zero (LHD) - 40Hz-2500Hz, 50W to 90W
Pressed paper cone
much higher than the Steg...
Oddly enough, Ground Zero makes a completely different footwell sub for right hand drive cars.
Ground Zero (RHD) - 30Hz-1500Hz, 110W to 220W
Coated glass fiber cone
#19
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Yes. It’s funny you brought that up as I was just looking at that. As a relatively uneducated person in the technical aspects of car audio. I was looking at power handling and frequency of these aftermarket footwell woofers.
Steg - 55Hz-1500Hz, 200W RMS
“Special paper cone”
Match - 25Hz-250Hz, 100W RMS
Coated paper cone
Eton - None listed - 200W RMS
Coated paper cone
Rainbow - None Listed - 90W max
Who knows what the cones are made of (The white cones are supposed to be upgraded but I can’t find the info on it)
Ground Zero (LHD) - 40Hz-2500Hz, 50W to 90W
Pressed paper cone
much higher than the Steg...
Oddly enough, Ground Zero makes a completely different footwell sub for right hand drive cars.
Ground Zero (RHD) - 30Hz-1500Hz, 110W to 220W
Coated glass fiber cone
Steg - 55Hz-1500Hz, 200W RMS
“Special paper cone”
Match - 25Hz-250Hz, 100W RMS
Coated paper cone
Eton - None listed - 200W RMS
Coated paper cone
Rainbow - None Listed - 90W max
Who knows what the cones are made of (The white cones are supposed to be upgraded but I can’t find the info on it)
Ground Zero (LHD) - 40Hz-2500Hz, 50W to 90W
Pressed paper cone
much higher than the Steg...
Oddly enough, Ground Zero makes a completely different footwell sub for right hand drive cars.
Ground Zero (RHD) - 30Hz-1500Hz, 110W to 220W
Coated glass fiber cone
Didn't know about ground zero. Nice.
Is this guy only selling one??
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ground-Zero...r/223753972582
The Eton user manual suggest using 25hz to 150hz/180hz crossover. Their MB XLP crossover goes to 150hz.
https://www.eton-gmbh.com/fileadmin/...22.794_web.pdf
Not sure why they are so secretive with their specs.
Last edited by benzdude; 07-14-2020 at 04:54 PM.
#20
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My V Twelve DSP cost the same as this whole kit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEG-Custom-Fit-DSP-Set-BEST-8-channel-Compo-for-Mercedes-class-C-E-GLC-S/353065202722
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STEG-Custom-Fit-DSP-Set-BEST-8-channel-Compo-for-Mercedes-class-C-E-GLC-S/353065202722
#23
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Nope. Been busy and haven't even made the cables. Plus, I loaded a different calibration to my JL Audio Fix 82 and audio quality has been so sweet, I just keep driving around town.
This weekend hopefully.
This weekend hopefully.
#24
Are you going to use a JL Fix? I’ve read the Helix doesn’t need one but I’ve never installed one. I think you’ve convinced me to go the Helix route so please, all the info you can provide. I may go the 8 channel route and jettison the center channel.
#25
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The JL Fix 82 ($300) provides me with a FLAT, summed signal from the Burmester AMP into the new DSP AMP via optical. (All Delays and EQs are removed for me)
(I am only using the Front L/R and Sub L/R into the Fix 82 to get a full range signal )
You can use the Helix V EIGHT DSP standalone, but then you have to flatten and adjust the INPUT signal yourself using the input RTA and audio tuning skills. (I am not an expert yet)
Another option would be to use Nav TV ZEN-M MOST150 box ($700), which allows you to remove the factory (Burmester) amp completely out of the chain and provides output signals via optical and (12) analog outputs. (all outputs generate audio and can be used simultaneously into a DSP. )
The zen-m also provides automatic ON/OFF remote trigger (from the head unit) and retains volume control, full fade and balance (on analog only).
https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT871/zen-m.html
I already have the JL Fix 82, so I decided to start slow and not waste another $700 (just yet).
If you get a Helix DSP amp, I would suggest getting an MK2 version because of new added ACO features and the AD/DA are now AKM.
The V TWLEVE DSP also has a routing feature that allows you pass through the factory AMP signals untouched, if needed.
This is for the DSP Tool V3 software, but still relevant.
http://audiotec-fischer.de.dedivirt2...70d008e6b1.pdf
Last edited by benzdude; 07-21-2020 at 03:41 PM.